Multiculturalism - Should we change for others, or should they change for us?

[Monkster]

But does Australia want people who are good people who cant speak english? or "bad" people who can?

Neither.

 

[Philhawk]

1. Good parent
2. Speaking English
eq3. the other 2.

lol speaking english before being a good husband? ... cmoon be reasonable ...

 

[Philhawk]

Neither.

so Australia has to only accept "good people who speak English". Ok tell me how you can differentiate people when migrating en masse ...

 

[PA HOG]

How are they going to ask for food at a deli if they can't speak English? QUOTE]



I read the papers and watch TV news daily but can't recall ever hearing of anybody starving to death over language difficulties. Nor have I heard of any Australians overseas suffering that fate.

My experience when I have had the privilege of visiting foreign countries is that a mature attitude and a smile usually promote helpful service. Recently whilst shopping in a supermarket in Asia (where, like here, you choose items without the need for speaking) my wife could not find a certain item. We finished up with six people running in all directions in response to our hand signals and gestures. Ultimately, the elusive item was found culminating in eight smiling faces. It's part of the fun of travelling. Hopefully, your unwelcome migrants might have the good fortune to get this kind of excellent service here. I'm sure they soon sort out the shops where they are made to feel like second class.

Amusingly, as you have quoted a deli in your question, there is a chance that English isn't the first language spoken by the proprietors anyway.

 

[skipper kelly]

lol speaking english before being a good husband? ... cmoon be reasonable ...

actually you are right. It would be better to not speak English so I couldnt understand the whinging and nagging.

 

[Monkster]

so Australia has to only accept "good people who speak English". Ok tell me how you can differentiate people when migrating en masse ...

How do we differentiate the criminals etc from that group? Or do we just let them all in and hope for the best?

 

[Monkster]

My experience when I have had the privilege of visiting foreign countries is that a mature attitude and a smile usually promote helpful service. Recently whilst shopping in a supermarket in Asia (where, like here, you choose items without the need for speaking) my wife could not find a certain item. We finished up with six people running in all directions in response to our hand signals and gestures. Ultimately, the elusive item was found culminating in eight smiling faces. It's part of the fun of travelling. Hopefully, your unwelcome migrants might have the good fortune to get this kind of excellent service here. I'm sure they soon sort out the shops where they are made to feel like second class.

So you didn't know any of the language of the country you visited?

Amusingly, as you have quoted a deli in your question, there is a chance that English isn't the first language spoken by the proprietors anyway.
[/color]

Well I meant Coles deli etc

 

[Philhawk]

How do we differentiate the criminals etc from that group? Or do we just let them all in and hope for the best?

I asked the question my friend that would you prefer "good people who dont speak english" or "bad people who do" - but you havent answered that. By answering "neither" - arent you ultimately doing what you have made a big hoo ha about? segregating certain members of society? ...

 

[Monkster]

I asked the question my friend that would you prefer "good people who dont speak english" or "bad people who do" - but you havent answered that. By answering "neither" - arent you ultimately doing what you have made a big hoo ha about? segregating certain members of society? ...

You can't segregate someone who isn't in the country. Otherwise letting someone in with a passport (for example) is segregation.

 

[- PC -]

I dont think you should automatically assume that those who dont speak english will go work in a sweat shop. I mean I can understand vaguely where you are coming from - but that brings about another question. Those who cannot speak English tend so socialise with others who dont speak english very well. As such this leads to racial slums popping up in parts of cities which is detrimental to society as a whole.

I used sweat shop as the most dramatic example. I understand that there are now employers who will, as you say, employ exclusively within their own community. Its human nature to want to live and work with like minded people. But I would like to think that the reason to emigrate would be based on a desire to live and join in with the Australian life. Similarly if I wanted to move to France, as Hawkeye said, I would make an attempt to learn French. Its easier for me to adapt and its easier for the people I mix with.

The socialising is not a bad thing, as I mentioned living with like minded people is a human need...its when the local political control (council/shire etc)moves bylaws allowing signage in exclusively a non-English language. Small beef and probably insular but why cant I be able to identify the shops around me?

 

[hawkeye23]

Thank you Hawkeye and I applaud you for doing your best to learn the language of the country you were visiting

My feeling is that if everyone at least made an effort to speak the local language, there wouldn't be the segregation and isolation problems that there are now. Communication is the basis of society. If people aren't willing/able to communicate with a large proportion of society, how can they assimilate? It's all very confusing and opens up a can of politically correct whoop arse.

 

[Monkster]

My feeling is that if everyone at least made an effort to speak the local language, there wouldn't be the segregation and isolation problems that there are now. Communication is the basis of society. If people aren't willing/able to communicate with a large proportion of society, how can they assimilate? It's all very confusing and opens up a can of politically correct whoop arse.

I'd say I loved you but my gf would kick my arse what you just said there is exactly what I've been trying to say.

 

[Murray]

I used sweat shop as the most dramatic example. I understand that there are now employers who will, as you say, employ exclusively within their own community. Its human nature to want to live and work with like minded people. But I would like to think that the reason to emigrate would be based on a desire to live and join in with the Australian life. Similarly if I wanted to move to France, as Hawkeye said, I would make an attempt to learn French. Its easier for me to adapt and its easier for the people I mix with.

The socialising is not a bad thing, as I mentioned living with like minded people is a human need...its when the local political control (council/shire etc)moves bylaws allowing signage in exclusively a non-English language. Small beef and probably insular but why cant I be able to identify the shops around me?

Do you wonder how the Snowy Mountain Scheme ever got built.
35 different nationalities most couldn't speak English let alone the other 34 languages..
But hey presto we have a huge dam system.

Magic perhaps? either that or there were no long lasting issues

 

[- PC -]

Do you wonder how the Snowy Mountain Scheme ever got built.
35 different nationalities most couldn't speak English let alone the other 34 languages..
But hey presto we have a huge dam system.

Magic perhaps? either that or there were no long lasting issues

They were forced migrants. Forced to move due to war ravaging their land . The difference, and I hope I have made it clear, is that those who choose to come to Australia do so with all good intentions of having a basic understanding of our language.
But yeh bring up your dam if you want. I brought up sweat shops so its only fair you drag something back from 60 years ago.

Murray, if you moved to France , would you learn French or would you surround yourselves with English speaking people only? I would like to explore France and all it offers and part of that would involve communicating. Certainly I dont HAVE to learn French...but it would make life easier for me AND the French people I come into contact with.

 

[Murray]

They were forced migrants. Forced to move due to war ravaging their land . The difference, and I hope I have made it clear, is that those who choose to come to Australia do so with all good intentions of having a basic understanding of our language.
But yeh bring up your dam if you want. I brought up sweat shops so its only fair you drag something back from 60 years ago.

Murray, if you moved to France , would you learn French or would you surround yourselves with English speaking people only? I would like to explore France and all it offers and part of that would involve communicating. Certainly I dont HAVE to learn French...but it would make life easier for me AND the French people I come into contact with.

My argument all along is that it does not make one scintilla of difference.

The target gets moved so I have a crack at that, then the target gets moved back again - so I am back with my original view.

Now where do we go?

 

[Monkster]

My argument all along is that it does not make one scintilla of difference.

The target gets moved so I have a crack at that, then the target gets moved back again - so I am back with my original view.

Now where do we go?

You still havent answered my statement about people segregating themselves.

 

[mantis]

Well I meant Coles deli etc

They obviously wouldn't shop at the Coles deli then you fool.

 

[Monkster]

They obviously wouldn't shop at the Coles deli then you fool.

So again segregation is promoted because if they weren't shopping at English speaking delis they'd obviously be shopping at delis where only their language was spoken.

Another question: Why DON'T you think it's a problem that these people cannot speak our official language?

BTW whether it's true or not calling me a fool is personal abuse.

 

[mantis]

Not when it's true monkster.

I live in an area where ther are a lot of migrants, a few of my neighbours don't speak english, we still wave & smile at each other, my landlord speaks very little english, but he still manages to be a land owner. People don't have to segegate themselves, just because they don't speak english.

 

[Monkster]

Not when it's true monkster.

Saying it in a insulting fashion (as you quite obviously did) is personal abuse.

I live in an area where ther are a lot of migrants, a few of my neighbours don't speak english, we still wave & smile at each other, my landlord speaks very little english, but he still manages to be a land owner. People don't have to segegate themselves, just because they don't speak english.

Now how the heck does he manage to be a land owner and not speak English? are you able to tell him when you have problems (.ie need something fixed).

 

[bmwofoz]

The debate about Santa. shows how stupid Mulitculturlism is, for the simple reason, the issue was I bet not even raised by a Migrant, but by some silly Government offical wanting to appear to do something to help these new Australians.

Santa should not be banned, afterall Santa isn't even a Christian thing, its simpilly a bloke who gives gifts, what harm would be done if that same Government Offical sat down with the Community leaders and explain the Story to them, Im sure they will have no issue with their Childern getting gifts.

I should also add, that its not just Muslims who have different ideas, let not forget the JW, they call themselves Christian, but they don't observe Xmas,Birthdays,Easter.

so what we should be doing is getting over the petty name calling, and finding real ways to help new Migrants to find a place in their new Country, sure its natural to want them to oberve our traditions, and they do in different ways.

Asians while very mainstream haven't produced any great Footballers yet, but if you look at Football Clubs like West Coburg, you will see several Muslim named Footballers.

 

[mantis]

Saying it in a insulting fashion (as you quite obviously did) is personal abuse.



Now how the heck does he manage to be a land owner and not speak English? are you able to tell him when you have problems (.ie need something fixed).

No I can't, I just fix them myself, or if it's something I can't fix, I ring one of his sons, who do speak english.

 

[- PC -]

Asians while very mainstream haven't produced any great Footballers yet, but if you look at Football Clubs like West Coburg, you will see several Muslim named Footballers.

And before anyone mentions Peter Bell let it be known he was adopted into a WASP family as a baby and therefore is Korean in birth only.

 

[bmwofoz]

Opps, I forgot Peter Bell would have liked him at Essendon.

 

[Monkster]

No I can't, I just fix them myself, or if it's something I can't fix, I ring one of his sons, who do speak english.

If he could speak English you could ring him directly.