Expansion National reserves competition in 2025. Are you in favour?

[My_Username]

In what universe would this be good for the two major state leagues the WAFL and the SANFL?

It would remove clubs that, by your own admission, don't care about winning, and return them to having all clubs doing what they can to win.

 

[kane249]

Another step closer

 

[juss]

Another step closer

Should just do it, would have a lot more interest with fans following their own reserves in one consistent league for the development of AFL players, opens up more double header opportunites, and I think improves the state comps too because they you have a genuine state league with local / state clubs for people more engaged with that footy.

 

[marcmurphy3]

VFL fixturing constantly shocking. Blues reserves played 1 game in the first 4 rounds of the AFL season. Fully for an AFL reserves league.

 

[eth-dog]

It's dumb, but inevitable.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

Another step closer

Good. Crows reserves in the sanfl just isn’t working. The restrictions on top up players is horrendous - hampers development of the rest of the squad.

 

[HBFlanker]

It's dumb, but inevitable.

why is it dumb?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Should just do it, would have a lot more interest with fans following their own reserves in one consistent league for the development of AFL players, opens up more double header opportunites, and I think improves the state comps too because they you have a genuine state league with local / state clubs for people more engaged with that footy.

Fans don’t give a shit about reserves in any number. They never have and they never will.

 

[eth-dog]

why is it dumb?

1. Kills the VFL. That's the main one.
2. Increases travel costs of poorer clubs for the most part. There's a reason it was abandoned 25 years ago.
3. People don't care about reserves footy by and large

Why do you think it isn't?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

why is it dumb?

Expensive, unnecessary and impractical.

Actually ask yourself this:

Why do we have reserves teams? Why have them at all? What purpose do they serve?

The answers will tell you why.

And I’ll all but guarantee this: if it does get up, it’ll be gone again within 20 years. Because it doesn’t make sense, just like it never made sense before, which is why it fell away when the VFL became the AFL.

 

[HBFlanker]

1. Kills the VFL. That's the main one.
2. Increases travel costs of poorer clubs for the most part. There's a reason it was abandoned 25 years ago.
3. People don't care about reserves footy by and large

Why do you think it isn't?

1. VFL is dead anyway. Absolute shambles with uncompetitive teams playing against reserve teams. VFA will return as a 3rd tier.
2. 25 years ago there were no commercial arrangements with airlines or hotel chains, which there are now.
3. People will care more if it is the reserve teams of each AFL clubs playing against each other, rather than Casey demons playing against Southport.

More reasons it is better:

1. Reserves teams playing a more aligned game plan with the senior team
2. More exposure for the top up players
3. Aligned curtain raisers

 

[HBFlanker]

Expensive, unnecessary and impractical.

Actually ask yourself this:

Why do we have reserves teams? Why have them at all? What purpose do they serve?

The answers will tell you why.

And I’ll all but guarantee this: if it does get up, it’ll be gone again within 20 years. Because it doesn’t make sense, just like it never made sense before, which is why it fell away when the VFL became the AFL.

Completely disagree.

We have reserve teams to develop players, and provide a competition where players can play under the same banner and jumper as the team that drafted them.

Its a key element of the pathway to AFL football.

The VFL at the moment is a complete shambles, across the board.

 

[tiger_tough]

VFL fixturing constantly shocking. Blues reserves played 1 game in the first 4 rounds of the AFL season. Fully for an AFL reserves league.

The VFL fixturing is a ****ing joke.

 

[tiger_tough]

1. VFL is dead anyway. Absolute shambles with uncompetitive teams playing against reserve teams. VFA will return as a 3rd tier.
2. 25 years ago there were no commercial arrangements with airlines or hotel chains, which there are now.
3. People will care more if it is the reserve teams of each AFL clubs playing against each other, rather than Casey demons playing against Southport.

More reasons it is better:

1. Reserves teams playing a more aligned game plan with the senior team
2. More exposure for the top up players
3. Aligned curtain raisers

I think this is the first time I've agreed with a post of yours. Bit of a worry...

 

[eth-dog]

1. VFL is dead anyway. Absolute shambles with uncompetitive teams playing against reserve teams. VFA will return as a 3rd tier.
2. 25 years ago there were no commercial arrangements with airlines or hotel chains, which there are now.
3. People will care more if it is the reserve teams of each AFL clubs playing against each other, rather than Casey demons playing against Southport.

More reasons it is better:

1. Reserves teams playing a more aligned game plan with the senior team
2. More exposure for the top up players
3. Aligned curtain raisers

1. VFA won't return, that's delusional. These clubs will be forced to go to local footy where they'll be obscenely powerful for a time (especially Werribee/Williamstown in the WRFL and Sandy in the SFNL). Why would anyone play VFL when you can play for Essendon or Collingwood? We might have VFL in 2025 but not any longer.
2. You're still taking double the staff interstate, sometimes triple (for example, this week Essendon would take 3/4 recruiters over to Perth to watch colts), which increases costs.
3. Bullshit. Average attendance from Essendon since splitting with Bendigo has had a negligible bump, same with several other stand alone's. Die hard care but most average supporters don't care at all.
4. I think 14/18 clubs have genuine reserves sides, and of the 4 that don't, two will probably fold if they separate (Box Hill, Casey), and are AFL reserves in all but name.
5. Likely the opposite is true. You'll be cutting off over 100 state league players a week in the VFL alone.
6. AFL clubs don't like a lot of curtain raisers. They prefer games the day after so their emergencies can play if there's no injury in the warm up.

The VFL were forced to accommodate five new teams (well six but Aspley dropped out after a year) which hurt clubs like Coburg, Preston and other stand alones (they only got partial assistance from the AFL for hotels and flights) so it put a strain on other areas. If all the non Vic clubs want a reserves, they're welcome to it. Southport will likely join them, same with Tassie. If you're a Victorian club, would you rather play your reserves in Victoria every week or travel half a dozen times as well?

 

[tiger_tough]

1. Kills the VFL. That's the main one.
2. Increases travel costs of poorer clubs for the most part. There's a reason it was abandoned 25 years ago.
3. People don't care about reserves footy by and large

Why do you think it isn't?

VFL is cooked anyway. Nearly all of the legit stand-alone clubs are running on life support.
A couple of extra flights per year won't hurt anyone. There is a lot more money available to clubs than 25 years ago.
Lots of fans care about the reserves, but even more will when it becomes a national reserves comp especially when it benefits the seniors.

The only real downside is the death of the VFL as we know it, but they'll work something out.

 

[eth-dog]

VFL is cooked anyway. Nearly all of the legit stand-alone clubs are running on life support.
A couple of extra flights per year won't hurt anyone. There is a lot more money available to clubs than 25 years ago.
Lots of fans care about the reserves, but even more will when it becomes a national reserves comp especially when it benefits the seniors.

The only real downside is the death of the VFL as we know it, but they'll work something out.

VFL is salvageable if they return to its previous model. These clubs are running on life support because they basically forced them to travel without full assistance, which forced cuts in areas they couldn't afford to cut.
Cost of running a club has significantly increased as well. The extra travel costs won't be insignificant.
Outside of die hards I think you'll find not many care.

Not without AFL clubs. Their biggest revenue earners are games against AFL clubs. They aren't commercially viable without them.

 

[Cam Payne]

There's no chance the VFL survives in a form that resembles what it is today. The WAFL and SANFL will survive because changes to those will be minimal. The VFL on the other hand loses 14 teams and the AFL won't give a stuff about the rest.

I still have no idea how an AFL reserves comp works for the top up players. They won't be getting paid stuff all and they still have to travel which roots those blokes external employment opportunities. Pretty hard to work a regular job if you're interstate every second week with games on from Thursday to Sunday.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Completely disagree.

We have reserve teams to develop players, and provide a competition where players can play under the same banner and jumper as the team that drafted them.

Its a key element of the pathway to AFL football.

The VFL at the moment is a complete shambles, across the board.

I mean… that’s just completely made up. It’s not the purpose of reserves footy at all.

It’s for player development, backup players and injury return. That’s basically it.

Having a national reserves comp doesn’t improve these things… and in some cases (injuries and travel) is a real negative.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I still have no idea how an AFL reserves comp works for the top up players. They won't be getting paid stuff all and they still have to travel which roots those blokes external employment opportunities. Pretty hard to work a regular job if you're interstate every second week with games on from Thursday to Sunday.

Correct. It doesn’t work at all.

The evolution of AFL lists (severely limiting senior list numbers etc, which has meant higher salaries for all senior players) has taken place over decades in large part because the state league system and the use of part-time top-up players in reserves teams has allowed it.

You don’t need 60 players on an AFL list any more because you have a squad of 30-odd state league players who can step up and fill your reserves team.

Now what? Those same part-time top-ups will be asked to fly all over Australia to play games in all times slots?

You either have to pay them as full-time players (expensive) or they’ll leave, making the quality of reserves teams even worse as clubs have to “take who they can get”.

Keep in mind that in most current “reserves” games, generally around half the team are not AFL listed players. Who the “tops ups” are is a big part of the quality of game and the league.

 

[GWT6]

I've been saying for a while on here that WAFL and SANFL have always been third tier comps, even at their best they were behind the VFA and no way near the VFL, now even their own football clubs are openly admitting it.

I don't see why VFA/VFL should have their competitions and clubs killed off because WA and SA local football administrators have ruined their comps.

All the crap on this site by SA and WA nuffies going on about how great the WAFL and SANFL was and still is, and can't put on a decent training game for players not up to AFL level.

Why penalise clubs that have been around for 100 years because of other states leagues' incompetence?

 

[tiger_tough]

There's no chance the VFL survives in a form that resembles what it is today. The WAFL and SANFL will survive because changes to those will be minimal. The VFL on the other hand loses 14 teams and the AFL won't give a stuff about the rest.

I still have no idea how an AFL reserves comp works for the top up players. They won't be getting paid stuff all and they still have to travel which roots those blokes external employment opportunities. Pretty hard to work a regular job if you're interstate every second week with games on from Thursday to Sunday.

Wouldn't be any different to now, would it? Each club would have a small reserves list and can call on top up players from elsewhere on match payments if required.

 

[Freomaniac]

Good. Crows reserves in the sanfl just isn’t working. The restrictions on top up players is horrendous - hampers development of the rest of the squad.

Well you are not aligned with a club in the SANFL.

As it stands... Crows SANFL side is semi competitive. In an 18 game season, probably get 4-6 wins every season.

Not surprising. Half the team are actual crow listed AFL players the other half are amateurs.

Look at west coast with their injuries in 2022 and 2023.

When the eagles AFL side have 10-15 injuries on their list, it shows. There's also a flow in effect on the eagles WAFL side.

Go look at the scorelines of the eagles games in 2022 and 2023. Most of those games were 10-15 goal losses

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I've been saying for a while on here that WAFL and SANFL have always been third tier comps, even at their best they were behind the VFA and no way near the VFL, now even their own football clubs are openly admitting it.

I don't see why VFA/VFL should have their competitions and clubs killed off because WA and SA local football administrators have ruined their comps.

All the crap on this site by SA and WA nuffies going on about how great the WAFL and SANFL was and still is, and can't put on a decent training game for players not up to AFL level.

Why penalise clubs that have been around for 100 years because of other states leagues' incompetence?

What absolute rubbish. You don’t know wtf your talking about.

 

[GWT6]

What absolute rubbish. You don’t know wtf your talking about.

Haha - ok champ - I'm wrong.

Now you go sit by yourself in an stand watching WAFL this weekend and tell me that it is a top their comp and WA administrations and fans haven't admitted that it is over.

Just don't try and send the proud Vic clubs the same way as the WA mess.