Expansion National reserves competition in 2025. Are you in favour?

[Lsta062]

Nope they got given a fair salary cap.
Surely you don’t think they should get the same cap as the other WAFL clubs,
The WAFL clubs get 270k to spend on their entire list and you think the Eagles should get the same to spend on just 8-14 top ups.
If you really think that should be how it is it will be very difficult to have an adult conversation with you about this.
The Eagles football program is the issue, they are not fit and hence get way too many injuries.
If they averaged the injuries of the other AFL clubs their WAFL side would be competitive.
Freo having no issues in the WAFL.
Just West Coast and the Eagles have sooked and complained about every single set up playing in the WAFL.
Spread players throughout all clubs, they won 3 AFL flags doing that yet they sooked and didn’t like it.
They aligned on 3 occasions but instead of working with the WAFL club they wanted to run the WAFL club. WAFL club quickly said go away.
Then now we have stand alone. They played finals 3 years ago with less concessions than they have now but yet again they sook and complain.
Maybe they should look within and realise they currently have the worse run and performing football department in Australia.
Until they acknowledge and address their issues within not much will change and if they think leaving the WAFL will solve their issues then good luck to them. That’s just transferring the issue elsewhere.

I just talked about the SANFL and WAFL not giving AFL clubs the same conditions as the VFL for instance, making it relatively harder for them to run a successful reserves program.

I’ll be honest though, y’all WA and SA supporters know more about this than me. I just remember how much the SA supporters complained about the SANFL over the years.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I just talked about the SANFL and WAFL not giving AFL clubs the same conditions as the VFL for instance, making it relatively harder for them to run a successful reserves program.

I’ll be honest though, y’all WA and SA supporters know more about this than me. I just remember how much the SA supporters complained about the SANFL over the years.

Port supporters hate the SANFL, not sure why. How can the same conditions occur in a different comp? Peel which is Freo's reserves just played in the WAFL GF. Their program seems to be going ok.

Anyway no worries, they will all do what they have to.

 

[Freomaniac]

Every single AFL club except Fremantle and St Kilda run their own reserves sides already. The costs to rebrand and set up a fixture that mirrors the AFL, even if the games aren't curtain raisers, would not be insurmountable.

The dockers took over Peel in the WAFL. Who did the saints take over as a ressies side in the VFL?

 

[Freomaniac]

Have been for a while.

But Adelaide wont be in a position to do it until we have our training facility up and running.

Nah... your AFL mens side and AFL SANFL side didnt tank hard enough lol

 

[Rickee]

The dockers took over Peel in the WAFL. Who did the saints take over as a ressies side in the VFL?

Sandringham. The Zebs have even played "home" games at Moorabbin wearing a knock off Saints jumper with SANDY written across the front.

 

[kane249]

Sandringham. The Zebs have even played "home" games at Moorabbin wearing a knock off Saints jumper with SANDY written across the front.

Hopefully Freo doesn't establish its reserves side as Cockburn and they follow suit

 

[JohnZ]

Anyone playing for one of the AFL reserves side should be eligible for short term promotion to the senior list and play AFL games, I don’t get why we are so conservative in AFL about this. Same with interchange, have as many as you like on the bench I couldn’t care less, allows cover for multiple positions but still cap rotations further to a max of 15 a quarter.

If we went proper AFL reserves then the AFL lists would get bigger to accomodate needing to field two teams. No doubt about it. Would like the see the reserves comp focus on (young) player development

 

[greatwhiteshark]

If we went proper AFL reserves then the AFL lists would get bigger to accomodate needing to field two teams. No doubt about it. Would like the see the reserves comp focus on (young) player development

The levels below should be working on player development. The AFL is supposed to be the best of the best, not a colt’s competition. You should actually be a pretty bloody good footballer to get drafted, clearly that is no longer the case.

 

[peetoo]

The levels below should be working on player development. The AFL is supposed to be the best of the best, not a colt’s competition. You should actually be a pretty bloody good footballer to get drafted, clearly that is no longer the case.

Draft system in USA is based on strong feeder competitions. It’s missing here so our draft will always be being fiddled with to improve. But the base is always wrong

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

I wonder if we don't see some sort of AFL2/VFL conferences

Conference 1
Werribee
Box Hill (Hawthorn)
Williamstown
Footscray
Casey (Melbourne)
Collingwood
Richmond
North Melbourne
Carlton
Geelong
Port Melbourne
Sandringham (St Kilda)
Essendon
Frankston
Bullants
Coburg

Conference 2
Gold Coast
Brisbane
Sydney
GWS
Adelaide
Port Adelaide
West Coast
Fremantle
Southport
Tasmania
ACT club?
NT Thunder?

But I suspect the writing could be on the wall for the Bullants, Coburg and perhaps Frankston.

The VFL could pretty much continue as is, while the interstate AFL clubs get the proper reserves they seem to want so dearly.

plenty of good thoughts in the thread…. Inc this model …the one issue is the travel is only carried by Conf 2.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

plenty of good thoughts in the thread…. Inc this model …the one issue is the travel is only carried by Conf 2.

If they want to leave their state leagues then they’ll cop the travel. Otherwise keep the status quo.

But there’s really no need to change the whole VFL, which works just fine.

 

[MakeshiftMartyr]

Not that it helps the logistical issues that much, but would it be possible to create 'Cup' competitions between the reserves teams and the state competitions?

For example, West Coast and Fremantle reserves have a cup competition between themselves and, let's say, the top 6 performing WAFL sides. Winner gets prize money and a trophy, AFL gets more games to flog in the TV rights, it reduces some travel for the reserves teams and the WAFL clubs get increased exposure and relevance.

Obviously you would need to place limits on who qualifies for the reserves team to give the state teams a fighting chance.

 

[JohnZ]

The levels below should be working on player development. The AFL is supposed to be the best of the best, not a colt’s competition. You should actually be a pretty bloody good footballer to get drafted, clearly that is no longer the case.

Whilst I somewhat agree, you can't expect all 18yos to walk right in. That's where the development happens today and where it should happen. Draft double the number we currently do and cut anyone not ready by age 22-23. We don't have the college system, so AFL needs to replicate that inside the AFL system. Suggesting that half the list are 18-23yos that mainly play reserves.

I'd go as far as saying that draftees should have restrictions based on their draft position ie.
Top 3 Pick: Can play senior games in first year (six year contract then free agent) - $350k/year
First Round: No senior games in first year (five year contract then free agent) - $275k/year
Second + Third Round: No senior games in first two years (four year contract then free agent) - $225k/year
Fourth Round and later: No senior games in first three years (three year contract then free agent) - $100k/year

Free agents are restricted at the end of their draft contract (any offers can be matched by home club), afterwards all players have full free agency. Trading would still exist, but only for contracted players (and those whose free agency is restricted) plus picks.

A club and draftee can agree to a higher tier contract and included conditions (ie 2nd round getting the five year contract and playing after one year, or a 4th round being on a four year contract at the higher income band), but not downgraded to a lower one.

 

[Rickee]

I am sure the AFL would be rapt if Coburg, Preston and Frankston withdrew. Certainly Coburg and Preston are adding very little to the comp.

But its' their competition, and they've both been it it for nearly a century.

The AFL reserves clubs joined the VFA, and the current VFL competition carries that history, of which Coburg and the Bullants have been a vital and much loved part.

This appears to be what the majority of supporters who have no skin in the game are not getting: the stand alone clubs have every right to exist and have long serving and passionate staff, volunteers, members and supporters. Those people are just as important as supporters of Collingwood, Carlton or Geelong, and they and the communities they represent aren't just going to die off quietly, as the AFL found out when it took Frankstons licence away and Carlton wound up the Northern Blues.

The easiest option is to reinstate the AFL Reserves and put to the remaining stand alone Victorian clubs, plus Box Hill, Casey and Sandringham if they want to continue as an independent competition, try to join suburban comps, merge or fold. At least then they will have some agency in their future rather than being slowly strangled to death by plastic franchises from interstate

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Whilst I somewhat agree, you can't expect all 18yos to walk right in. That's where the development happens today and where it should happen. Draft double the number we currently do and cut anyone not ready by age 22-23. We don't have the college system, so AFL needs to replicate that inside the AFL system. Suggesting that half the list are 18-23yos that mainly play reserves.

I'd go as far as saying that draftees should have restrictions based on their draft position ie.
Top 3 Pick: Can play senior games in first year (six year contract then free agent) - $350k/year
First Round: No senior games in first year (five year contract then free agent) - $275k/year
Second + Third Round: No senior games in first two years (four year contract then free agent) - $225k/year
Fourth Round and later: No senior games in first three years (three year contract then free agent) - $100k/year

Free agents are restricted at the end of their draft contract (any offers can be matched by home club), afterwards all players have full free agency. Trading would still exist, but only for contracted players (and those whose free agency is restricted) plus picks.

A club and draftee can agree to a higher tier contract and included conditions (ie 2nd round getting the five year contract and playing after one year, or a 4th round being on a four year contract at the higher income band), but not downgraded to a lower one.

Can’t talk for the VFL but the WAFL and SANFL are perfect breeding grounds for young players to develop.
No better place for young players to develop than against seasoned men footballers in a competitive environment.
A National reserves comp will be a kids comp and development will be far longer and not as good.

 

[Walshawk]

But its' their competition, and they've both been it it for nearly a century.

The AFL reserves clubs joined the VFA, and the current VFL competition carries that history, of which Coburg and the Bullants have been a vital and much loved part.

This appears to be what the majority of supporters who have no skin in the game are not getting: the stand alone clubs have every right to exist and have long serving and passionate staff, volunteers, members and supporters. Those people are just as important as supporters of Collingwood, Carlton or Geelong, and they and the communities they represent aren't just going to die off quietly, as the AFL found out when it took Frankstons licence away and Carlton wound up the Northern Blues.

The easiest option is to reinstate the AFL Reserves and put to the remaining stand alone Victorian clubs, plus Box Hill, Casey and Sandringham if they want to continue as an independent competition, try to join suburban comps, merge or fold. At least then they will have some agency in their future rather than being slowly strangled to death by plastic franchises from interstate

Understand and agree with your sentiment, but the reality is that, at best, five old VFA clubs would be able to continue in a stand alone comp, but more likely two or three. Casey and Box Hill are totally dependant on their AFL partners. They would have less than 20 members each if they split from their AFL partner. Casey was never in the VFA and there are no fragments of Springvale remaining. Same with the Mustangs.

The VFA was lot like the SANFL/WAFL, it hasn’t been the main comp since 1896. Pre merger with AFL reserves, most clubs only had a few hundred supporters. Willy, Werribee, Port and Sandy were the exception and had more.

Without the larger crowds and TV exposure that comes with playing Collingwood/Blues/Bombers, etc reserves, these clubs could not generate the income to operate. No network would want to broadcast Coburg v Frankston, for example. Clubs do not have any juniors or reserve teams (Although the Bullants and Willy are affiliated with local clubs) and only Werribee has a social club that generates any significant income.

A return to the old VFA would be just like the VFA was in 1998. Broke, with no crowds.

Kill the current VFL and you kill most of its clubs.

 

[Bianconeri]

Whilst I somewhat agree, you can't expect all 18yos to walk right in. That's where the development happens today and where it should happen. Draft double the number we currently do and cut anyone not ready by age 22-23. We don't have the college system, so AFL needs to replicate that inside the AFL system. Suggesting that half the list are 18-23yos that mainly play reserves.

I'd go as far as saying that draftees should have restrictions based on their draft position ie.
Top 3 Pick: Can play senior games in first year (six year contract then free agent) - $350k/year
First Round: No senior games in first year (five year contract then free agent) - $275k/year
Second + Third Round: No senior games in first two years (four year contract then free agent) - $225k/year
Fourth Round and later: No senior games in first three years (three year contract then free agent) - $100k/year

Free agents are restricted at the end of their draft contract (any offers can be matched by home club), afterwards all players have full free agency. Trading would still exist, but only for contracted players (and those whose free agency is restricted) plus picks.

A club and draftee can agree to a higher tier contract and included conditions (ie 2nd round getting the five year contract and playing after one year, or a 4th round being on a four year contract at the higher income band), but not downgraded to a lower one.

Those restrictions will only serve to halt development.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

But its' their competition, and they've both been it it for nearly a century.

The AFL reserves clubs joined the VFA, and the current VFL competition carries that history, of which Coburg and the Bullants have been a vital and much loved part.

This appears to be what the majority of supporters who have no skin in the game are not getting: the stand alone clubs have every right to exist and have long serving and passionate staff, volunteers, members and supporters. Those people are just as important as supporters of Collingwood, Carlton or Geelong, and they and the communities they represent aren't just going to die off quietly, as the AFL found out when it took Frankstons licence away and Carlton wound up the Northern Blues.

The easiest option is to reinstate the AFL Reserves and put to the remaining stand alone Victorian clubs, plus Box Hill, Casey and Sandringham if they want to continue as an independent competition, try to join suburban comps, merge or fold. At least then they will have some agency in their future rather than being slowly strangled to death by plastic franchises from interstate

The easiest option is actually to continue with the VFL as it's been operating since 2000.

As per the recommendations of the FORT (Football Organisation Review Team) in the mid 90s, the VFA was merged with the Victorian AFL reserves.

• If AFL clubs want to enter their own reserves team, they can
• If former VFA clubs want to enter their own senior team, they can.
• If one of each wants to enter into a partnership and enter one team, they can.

Amid all the talk, it's actually been reasonably successful in this guise since 2000. It's the only model that really works. It preserves a statewide league for Victoria, which is where the surviving VFA clubs belong, and it give AFL clubs their reserves.

What has fouled it up in the last few years has been interstate AFL clubs bringing their problems.

NSW and Qld clubs decided their state leagues weren't good enough. They built the NEAFL then decided that wasn't good enough. Now they've been let into the VFL.

Now Port Adelaide and possibly others have decided they want in too.

These clubs (and the AFL) need to fix their state leagues rather than transferring their issues to the VFL. Or if they really want standalone national reserves, do it - there's eight clubs (nine with Tasmania), which is plenty for a reserves league. Go for it.

None of it need affect the VFL.

 

[WilloTree]

The Peel/Fremantle alignment has worked well for both clubs.

What's the huge rush to get stand-alone reserves teams? Has anyone actually seen how it's worked out for Eagles?

 

[greatwhiteshark]

The Peel/Fremantle alignment has worked well for both clubs.

What's the huge rush to get stand-alone reserves teams? Has anyone actually seen how it's worked out for Eagles?

Nothing works for the Eagles, stand alone doesn't work. Alignments don't work, host clubs don't work, Spreading players through =out the WAFL doesn't work.

Common denominator is the WCE, maybe they might be the problem!!

 

[WilloTree]

Nothing works for the Eagles, stand alone doesn't work. Alignments don't work, host clubs don't work, Spreading players through =out the WAFL doesn't work.

Common denominator is the WCE, maybe they might be the problem!!

The East Perth/Eagles alignment was outstanding for the Royals - particularly on their balance sheet The problem was, once East Perth got what they needed financially, they split. The other clubs hated it because it made East Perth a super-team. These were back in the days AFL lists were much bigger so it was a huge advantage having 30 odd blokes added to a WAFL club.

The problem now is very different. No one wants to align. The WAFC has put numerous requests to Perth to form some sort of alignment/host club arrangement, even if it's not the traditional model, but at least in a player loan capacity. They have knocked back all of the scenarios that were put to them. No clubs want the player distribution model where you get a couple of Eagles turn up on game day.

To be honest, both WA clubs need to sit this one out.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

The East Perth/Eagles alignment was outstanding for the Royals - particularly on their balance sheet The problem was, once East Perth got what they needed financially, they split. The other clubs hated it because it made East Perth a super-team. These were back in the days AFL lists were much bigger so it was a huge advantage having 30 odd blokes added to a WAFL club.

The problem now is very different. No one wants to align. The WAFC has put numerous requests to Perth to form some sort of alignment/host club arrangement, even if it's not the traditional model, but at least in a player loan capacity. They have knocked back all of the scenarios that were put to them. No clubs want the player distribution model where you get a couple of Eagles turn up on game day.

To be honest, both WA clubs need to sit this one out.

The royals might of made a few dollars but it made their club soulless. The members hated it. The Eagles didn’t work with East Perth they tried to take over East Perth and eventually the club said let’s get rid of the Eagles.
Each and every scenario ends the sane way with the Eagles.
Maybe Don Pyle can extend the olive branch and work with a WAFL club instead of dictating to them.
Peel don’t get much interference from the Dockers. That’s how it has to work.

 

[kane249]

https://archive.is/SGDi3

Eagles have until June to decide if they will be in the WAFL or join Port applying for the VFL/AFL reserves for 2025

 

[RonnieRaven]

If they do it has to be a proper reserves.
No unaffiliated clubs

 

[Truetiger]

The only issue if we have a national reserves competition , it would kill off the SANFL and WAFL. Which I hope is not the case.