Never thought it would come to this

[Gibbo_88]

I'd suggest we're currently paddling upstream with a few kangaroos loose in the top paddock.

hahaha! nice one.

 

[John]

Well said. There's no point chopping horses mid-stream (I love me some mixed metaphors) .

I'd suggest we're currently paddling upstream with a few kangaroos loose in the top paddock.

hahaha! nice one.

Yeah! . This kind of stuff keeps me interested.

 

[Ironmonger]

If you read page 2 of his roster watch thread ,it mentions the fact they were planning it beforehand.

I think you're referring to this article?

http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2008/09/03/15822_gold-coast-afl.html

What it actually says is that the Lions had considered planning for a succession, but it never actually happened.

Here is the quote from Voss.

"What was in front of me four months ago was this notion that a succession plan might be able to work, and it didn't.''

 

[MacMum]

I can see what ceebee is meaning.....they had talked about putting a succession plan in place, (and with who involved) but Mathews threw that out the window by leaving earlier than expected, which in turn threw Vossy's appointment at WC out of whack...he needed to come "home" straight away, to take over..

...so it could be said the proper succession plan DIDN'T work...but it had to be re-jigged real quick..because of Mathews leaving like he did..

Both right IMO..

...and I still don't have a problem with any of it..

 

[Ceebee]

I can see what ceebee is meaning.....they had a plan in place, but Mathews threw that out the window by leaving earlier than planned, which in turn threw Vossy's appointment at WC out of whack...he needed to come "home" straight away, to take over..

...so it could be said the proper succession plan DIDN'T work...but it had to be re-jigged real quick..because of Mathews leaving like he did..

Both right IMO..

...and I still don't have a problem with any of it..

.

Pretty much what I was trying to say , yes. Thanks MacMum

Leigh pulled the pin a bit earlier than planned.

 

[notliondown]

Theres no doubt on Saturday night it was hard to know whether to be sad, angry, dumbfounded or just plain miserable. It was a loss that seemed unthinkable. And Vossy seemed like the logical receptical for the anger.

But theres been time to think. And a few things stand out once the emotion died.

1. We were arrogant on Saturday night - players and coaching staff alike. We treated our opponents with disrespect and as we've all seen time and time again the underdog will bite you hard if you don't turn up. The fact it was GC hurts. But regardless of the opponent you cannot win a game if you are arrogant. We made coaching errors and intent errors... we were going to smash the GC.

Look at this game in isolation for one moment and thats all it is - arrogance... on a grand scale - from EVERYONE... players and coaches alike.

2. All this talk of our list shits me... this guy is better, that guy should play, this one shouldn't have been traded.

These are human beings... and like all of us they need one thing to be champions... and its the hardest thing to find - confidence.

Confidence and self belief are self earned, they are not something you can teach or instill if the players don't feel it themselves. Skills will fall, execution will fail, panic will set in. Yes you can try as hard as you like to convince someone hes capable... but until they believe in themselves we will struggle. Until Mitch kicks that first goal he struggles. Until Luey takes a mark he struggles. Until Banfield steals the ball and runs on he struggles.

The players have the skills. They have the ability (yes we have strugglers but every team does). To be in any AFL side you have to be an elite athlete. To believe anything less is farcical and belittling to a man who puts his heart and soul into his profession.

But to get them to believe is process that only coming back from where we are right now will achieve. And the largest part of that process lays in the players hands alone.

There are selection issues for sure... I'm not saying we've got the perfect mix. But no matter who we put on the paddock, until they feel they deserve to win and dont just say it, we'll continue to struggle.

3. History makes us all geniuses.

In 2001, I like most just thought we were in for another crappy season at the start. We had the wrong players, too slow, too messy, too weak. We didn't have the class or skills of Essendon. We had no spirit no fight. We didnt gel, we didnt trust each other. We had glimpses... but that was all.

And then something clicked. Suddenly we had the fab four (five ), the best forward combination around... a stingy backline with all Australians in it. In the space of 3 months.

And I would bet London to a brick all the same stuff was written back then too before things changed.


Yeah Vossy has made a lot of mistakes. On and off the field. But its super simplistic to lay it all on his door step.

If the club has changed the way it really seems to have this year, with a new purpose and direction, new structures and administration, new financial hope, then that trickle on will change how we play.

If they players can feel a pride and honour in the jumper for a change then success will follow. This is a big picture issue not a single player or coach issue.

My hope is that Voss and the boys grow together. For a lot of them, including him, their careers are at the same stage... developing. And if Vossy can grow and change and begin to see success at the same rate as his players then I have absolutely no reason not to believe that we already have the core of our next GF side.

2001 tells me that anything is possible... and that throwing the baby out with the bathwater is not only an over reaction, it would be more destructive and divisive to a culture that only now is starting to find pride and belief in itself again.

 

[MacMum]

Notliondown, I bow down to you sir!!...your post is excellent

 

[blynd_freddie]

Yeah! . This kind of stuff keeps me interested.

And also this stuff from notliondown.

Theres no doubt on Saturday night it was hard to know whether to be sad, angry, dumbfounded or just plain miserable. It was a loss that seemed unthinkable. And Vossy seemed like the logical receptical for the anger.

But theres been time to think. And a few things stand out once the emotion died.

1. We were arrogant on Saturday night - players and coaching staff alike. We treated our opponents with disrespect and as we've all seen time and time again the underdog will bite you hard if you don't turn up. The fact it was GC hurts. But regardless of the opponent you cannot win a game if you are arrogant. We made coaching errors and intent errors... we were going to smash the GC.

Look at this game in isolation for one moment and thats all it is - arrogance... on a grand scale - from EVERYONE... players and coaches alike.

And supporters [myself included], 15 goals to a point in the previous game… “woo-hoo can’t wait for our serve of that in round seven, BRING IT ON!!!

2. All this talk of our list shits me... this guy is better, that guy should play, this one shouldn't have been traded.

These are human beings... and like all of us they need one thing to be champions... and its the hardest thing to find - confidence.

Confidence and self belief are self earned, they are not something you can teach or instill if the players don't feel it themselves. Skills will fall, execution will fail, panic will set in. Yes you can try as hard as you like to convince someone hes capable... but until they believe in themselves we will struggle. Until Mitch kicks that first goal he struggles. Until Luey takes a mark he struggles. Until Banfield steals the ball and runs on he struggles.

The players have the skills. They have the ability (yes we have strugglers but every team does). To be in any AFL side you have to be an elite athlete. To believe anything less is farcical and belittling to a man who puts his heart and soul into his profession.

But to get them to believe is process that only coming back from where we are right now will achieve. And the largest part of that process lays in the players hands alone.

There are selection issues for sure... I'm not saying we've got the perfect mix. But no matter who we put on the paddock, until they feel they deserve to win and dont just say it, we'll continue to struggle.

3. History makes us all geniuses.

In 2001, I like most just thought we were in for another crappy season at the start. We had the wrong players, too slow, too messy, too weak. We didn't have the class or skills of Essendon. We had no spirit no fight. We didnt gel, we didnt trust each other. We had glimpses... but that was all.

And then something clicked. Suddenly we had the fab four (five

), the best forward combination around... a stingy backline with all Australians in it. In the space of 3 months.

And I would bet London to a brick all the same stuff was written back then too before things changed.


Yeah Vossy has made a lot of mistakes. On and off the field. But its super simplistic to lay it all on his door step.

If the club has changed the way it really seems to have this year, with a new purpose and direction, new structures and administration, new financial hope, then that trickle on will change how we play.

If they players can feel a pride and honour in the jumper for a change then success will follow. This is a big picture issue not a single player or coach issue.

My hope is that Voss and the boys grow together. For a lot of them, including him, their careers are at the same stage... developing. And if Vossy can grow and change and begin to see success at the same rate as his players then I have absolutely no reason not to believe that we already have the core of our next GF side.

2001 tells me that anything is possible... and that throwing the baby out with the bathwater is not only an over reaction, it would be more destructive and divisive to a culture that only now is starting to find pride and belief in itself again.

IMHO - A great post, please call again…

I think there maybe some posters who enjoy looking down onto the plasma in a Godly Greek Mythology type of way… time for some to consider walking a mile in the players shoes.


And as I stare down upon my computer kingdom monitor, I can see that the ‘boot’ is now on the other foot and I point and laugh as some posters are taking one step backwards to every forward two.

Notliondown, I bow down to you sir!!...your post is excellent

+1

 

[Ceebee]

Big tick from me too, well thought out and very well said.

 

[western royboy]

Great Post NLD, Belief is the key - at that level they all must be able to play a little bit but the belief is the major thing that separates good from great.

 

[maroon and blue]

Theres no doubt on Saturday night it was hard to know whether to be sad, angry, dumbfounded or just plain miserable. It was a loss that seemed unthinkable. And Vossy seemed like the logical receptical for the anger.

But theres been time to think. And a few things stand out once the emotion died.

1. We were arrogant on Saturday night - players and coaching staff alike. We treated our opponents with disrespect and as we've all seen time and time again the underdog will bite you hard if you don't turn up. The fact it was GC hurts. But regardless of the opponent you cannot win a game if you are arrogant. We made coaching errors and intent errors... we were going to smash the GC.

Look at this game in isolation for one moment and thats all it is - arrogance... on a grand scale - from EVERYONE... players and coaches alike.

2. All this talk of our list shits me... this guy is better, that guy should play, this one shouldn't have been traded.

These are human beings... and like all of us they need one thing to be champions... and its the hardest thing to find - confidence.

Confidence and self belief are self earned, they are not something you can teach or instill if the players don't feel it themselves. Skills will fall, execution will fail, panic will set in. Yes you can try as hard as you like to convince someone hes capable... but until they believe in themselves we will struggle. Until Mitch kicks that first goal he struggles. Until Luey takes a mark he struggles. Until Banfield steals the ball and runs on he struggles.

The players have the skills. They have the ability (yes we have strugglers but every team does). To be in any AFL side you have to be an elite athlete. To believe anything less is farcical and belittling to a man who puts his heart and soul into his profession.

But to get them to believe is process that only coming back from where we are right now will achieve. And the largest part of that process lays in the players hands alone.

There are selection issues for sure... I'm not saying we've got the perfect mix. But no matter who we put on the paddock, until they feel they deserve to win and dont just say it, we'll continue to struggle.

3. History makes us all geniuses.

In 2001, I like most just thought we were in for another crappy season at the start. We had the wrong players, too slow, too messy, too weak. We didn't have the class or skills of Essendon. We had no spirit no fight. We didnt gel, we didnt trust each other. We had glimpses... but that was all.

And then something clicked. Suddenly we had the fab four (five ), the best forward combination around... a stingy backline with all Australians in it. In the space of 3 months.

And I would bet London to a brick all the same stuff was written back then too before things changed.


Yeah Vossy has made a lot of mistakes. On and off the field. But its super simplistic to lay it all on his door step.

If the club has changed the way it really seems to have this year, with a new purpose and direction, new structures and administration, new financial hope, then that trickle on will change how we play.

If they players can feel a pride and honour in the jumper for a change then success will follow. This is a big picture issue not a single player or coach issue.

My hope is that Voss and the boys grow together. For a lot of them, including him, their careers are at the same stage... developing. And if Vossy can grow and change and begin to see success at the same rate as his players then I have absolutely no reason not to believe that we already have the core of our next GF side.

2001 tells me that anything is possible... and that throwing the baby out with the bathwater is not only an over reaction, it would be more destructive and divisive to a culture that only now is starting to find pride and belief in itself again.

No way, we made the semis the year before, we had Leigh as coach; the team was playing exciting football, young guns like Johnathan Brown ( a once in a generation player) and Luke Powers had arrived on the scene plus Pikey and Mal. 2001 was a year of absolute anticipation. But I guess the old adage of never letting facts get in the way of a good yarn should apply.

 

[Judge]

No way, we made the semis the year before, we had Leigh as coach; the team was playing exciting football, young guns like Johnathan Brown ( a once in a generation player) and Luke Powers had arrived on the scene plus Pikey and Mal. 2001 was a year of absolute anticipation. But I guess the old adage of never letting facts get in the way of a good yarn should apply.

You must not have a great recall of Rounds 1-9 that year, particularly the Carlton game!

 

[notliondown]

No way, we made the semis the year before, we had Leigh as coach; the team was playing exciting football, young guns like Johnathan Brown ( a once in a generation player) and Luke Powers had arrived on the scene plus Pikey and Mal. 2001 was a year of absolute anticipation. But I guess the old adage of never letting facts get in the way of a good yarn should apply.

Well in the spirit of facts lets look at the paralells between then and now...

- in 2001 by the time we played "that" game against Essendon we'd played 9 rounds... and lost 5... with some absolutely humilating beltings... including a game against Carlton that was embarrasing. We'd lost against tems we should have beaten... sound familiar?

- Its just over a year ago we made finals football. Sure its not as recent as last year but we're sure as hell not Richmond or Melbourne are we?

- We had Leigh as coach yes... a coach with a chequred history as a coach by any standard. And a coach that only a few years ago had most on this board baying for his blood. A coach who history will show hasnt been able to rebuild a team.

The guys a legend dont get me wrong, but lets not dismiss the attribute that made him a great coach, his abilty as a player. And if thats the measure then Voss deserves the same rose coloured glasses view.

- Jonathon Brown was a hot head who was more trouble than he was worth (almost). It seemed every second week he was suspended. Granted now hes a footy god but then? Even his most ardent supporters wondered if hed ever string it together.

And to suggest that the Riches, Reddens et al with a little time patience and confidence cant emulate the feats of those who went before them is an underestimating and insulting them. Unless you have a crystal ball that I dont....

- Pikey and Mal? You mean the defender in our team whos the best spoiler in the comp cant be compared? The current defender whos one of our quickest over 20 cant be measure against those guys? Really??

- Right now our team plays exciting football when we gel. Granted we lapse... and badly at times, but when it clicks its great to watch. And with time it will only get better.

Hey... Im guilty like we all are of getting on here and venting spleen and wanting change and results. Im not going to suggest I havent.

But I'm not going to let a very distorted view of the good old days make me forget that weve been here before.

If you cant find anthing to be excited about or find any sense of anticipation in our future perhaps your on the wrong board.

 

[maroon and blue]

You must not have a great recall of Rounds 1-9 that year, particularly the Carlton game!

If you couldn't see the potential then you would have to be blind freddie, which I know your not. To equate the current list with the class of 2001 is folly. And my proof; a lazy three cups.

 

[weevil]

You must not have a great recall of Rounds 1-9 that year, particularly the Carlton game!

Even I blew my cool after that Carlton game.

 

[maroon and blue]

Well in the spirit of facts lets look at the paralells between then and now...

- Its just over a year ago we made finals football. Sure its not as recent as last year but we're sure as hell not Richmond or Melbourne are we?

- We had Leigh as coach yes... a coach with a chequred history as a coach by any standard. And a coach that only a few years ago had most on this board baying for his blood. A coach who history will show hasnt been able to rebuild a team.

The guys a legend dont get me wrong, but lets not dismiss the attribute that made him a great coach, his abilty as a player. And if thats the measure then Voss deserves the same rose coloured glasses view.

- Jonathon Brown was a hot head who was more trouble than he was worth (almost). It seemed every second week he was suspended. Granted now hes a footy god but then? Even his most ardent supporters wondered if hed ever string it together.

And to suggest that the Riches, Reddens et al with a little time patience and confidence cant emulate the feats of those who went before them is an underestimating and insulting them. Unless you have a crystal ball that I dont....

- Pikey and Mal? You mean the defender in our team whos the best spoiler in the comp cant be compared? The current defender whos one of our quickest over 20 cant be measure against those guys? Really??

- Right now our team plays exciting football when we gel. Granted we lapse... and badly at times, but when it clicks its great to watch. And with time it will only get better.

Hey... Im guilty like we all are of getting on here and venting spleen and wanting change and results. Im not going to suggest I havent.

But I'm not going to let a very distorted view of the good old days make me forget that weve been here before.

If you cant find anthing to be excited about or find any sense of anticipation
in our future perhaps your on the wrong board.

I prefer my "distorted" view.

 

[Voss the boss]

Pretty sure we lost the night GF to Port - and i watched the 2001 year dvd and Leigh said after the carlton loss that as a club and playing group they expected big things to happen and to go very far into the finals. We had played the last two years in the finals (prelim and semi). I don't think this team really can be that closely aligned to that one. They had expectations on them to succeed in finals. The expecatations on this team was not to finish on the bottom.

 

[maroon and blue]

Even I blew my cool after that Carlton game.

Voss as captain gave the boys a wake up call after that game.

 

[notliondown]

I prefer my "distorted" view.

lol well mate we all call it as we see it.... I just didnt want to let the facts distort my version of the story

 

[weevil]

Pretty sure we lost the night GF to Port - and i watched the 2001 year dvd and Leigh said after the carlton loss that as a club and playing group they expected big things to happen and to go very far into the finals. We had played the last two years in the finals (prelim and semi). I don't think this team really can be that closely aligned to that one. They had expectations on them to succeed in finals. The expecatations on this team was not to finish on the bottom.

What seems obvious in hindsight can be very difficult to judge at the time.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6124

 

[maroon and blue]

What seems obvious in hindsight can be very difficult to judge at the time.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6124

Lethal's comments V poster on Big Footy. And the winner is.....

 

[weevil]

I so wish Rip had voted for Shannon Rusca.

 

[dlanod]

I so wish Rip had voted for Shannon Rusca.

That the same Tom FC we have around now? The call on Brown and Bolton wasn't bad as the only two to really make it as footballers, with Headland a distant third in the end.

 

[Stocka]

I completely agree with Maroon and Blue.

I'm completely sick of, every year, reading people on this board continually referring back to the "If it bleeds, we can kill it" mythology that people seem to think will magically turn things around from a dire situation that does NOT compare closely with how things were back in 2001. It's as bad as the "Shinboner Spirit" at North Melbourne.

Where's the vomit emoticon, anyone?

 

[dlanod]

In the spirit of Stocka's post I'm going to forecast a 2-22 record for the season with wins in weeks 9 and 18, leading with the slogan...

If it's got shinbones, we can kill it.