News on the goose

[Sharks On A Plane]

He was never that good before injury and since then he has hardly played a game in 3 years and lost a yard of pace as well as the ability to turn.

Thank you. This is what many people are failing to understand.

 

[starchamber]

If nothing else he'll give us depth in the back line.We copped a few injuries last year to our defenders and had to do some patch up work,if Goose can get himself back on track and Ratts & Co think he's up to it then i'm with them

We had Adam Hartlett and Jake Edwards i rather had them back for depth.

 

[Chism]

Was my mistake on the AA mention i could of sworn he was, but further investigating found he wasnt. I will still stand by my comments though that he could offer us a bit for next to nothing. If anyone thinks a decent player can be had this year with a late pick ( like 80 odd ) is kidding themselves in this draft. Each to their own though and lets see what happens if he gets a guernsey for us.

 

[Silvagnis]

Goose will never get back to the form he was in prior to him breaking his leg, but what you will get from him is 110%, and we will also be getting someone who has some serious experience at AFL level.

With all of the backman we have at our disposal, perhaps the club are looking at playing in the FP, to give some help and experience to Henderson, who has suddenly become our focal point. Should we land Maguire, it means that we can play Waite back, along with Jamo, Bower and Thornton.

So we're going to play Maguire forward ahead of Walker, Robinson, Henderson, Yarran, Waite, Austin, Kreuzer and Hampson?

They would run off Maguire more than they run off Koschitzke and Fevola.

He hasnt recovered. Maguire has. Big Difference

Has he?

Then why didn't he even crack one game.

Even Tenace got a game for the Cats this year.

And he was delisted.

Whether you like it or not, he is coming down to train and if recent trends are to go by, the MC will pick him up. Every player under Ratten who has come down to train has been picked up.

Everyone has been picked up?

That's bull.

Lets get another Bentley and Johnson if being given the chance to train makes you an AFL player.

-Allen? He was a key forward.

Depth is depth is they're good enough and they're fit enough to get a spot on our list.

And Ratten said we might play Maguire forward.

Nothing but spin to piss in the pockets of supporters to convince them we can replace Fevola.

Ratten said Kreuzer would be played forward at times, yet the word is we see him as a champion ruckman and not a forward.

How do you know that the decisison wasnt instigated by Maguire? Maybe he wanted to get out of Morabbin? You show me where there is a qoute from a St Kilda Official saying he was delisted due to Injuries or becasue he was not up to standards.

Just like Jesse Smith walked...

Why would Maguire leave a club that he grew up at when they're a better team than Carlton?

Surely you would stay at your club and try to repay their faith in him?

You didn't see the injury prone Walker want to leave Carlton this year after we put him up for trade.

Name the last 25 year old player who was cut and made it to a pick as low as ten in the PSD...

Maguire and Thorp sound like bargains.

How do you know? Did you go and watch Sandy this year every match? Maybe the MC would have a different role for Maaguire?

Other clubs scout the 15 clubs and would know full well what Maguire is capable of because he's a name player.

No one even traded a late pick for Maguire.

Or Fisher who used to be a good player.

The mentality of supporters who are penciling Maguire in as anything more than a depth player is staggering.

We were rapt to pick up Pfeiffer two years ago...

If Maguire was worth something, clubs would try to line him up for a pick in the national draft and not let him slide after he was delisted by the first list lodgement date.

- Wait will play forward, so take him out. The MC have said all along they woudl love to release T-bird to a HBF so he could be attacking. Whilst i am a huge Austin fan, and beleive he could be an absoloute beauty he has not shown at any stage that he will be a top line CHB. Infact i cannot recall him ever playing on one of the oppostions premier big forwards. Maguire has shown he can do this at the top level, and was going sensationally until hsi injury. While it is unlikely he will reach that level, its not out of the question and its not like the man is a cripple. If his medical checks out, then there is no reason why he cannot return to some good AFL form. Whilst you will argue he didnt show form in the VFL, well he did. He played well at both ends, and should have been called up many times. Infact go onthe the saints board and you would have seen their outrage at the number of times he was not picked. And how do you know he is not one of those players that plays better amongst top line AFL players. He has not had a chance to show his wares on the top level, and there a hardly a number of AFL standard forwards running around in the magooss so his role changed virtaully every week.

So the fact Austin hasn't proven himself, means he can't step up in his fourth year and be a player?

Maguire hasn't been a gun for years, yet you're suggesting he's a better bet than a 20 year old who was fast enough to play on McQualter this year.

Riley said they think Austin will be right to play on KPF next year.

- Jamison and Bower both have constant injury problems. Maguire hasnt been injured for the best part of a year. He missed 1 week with a Hammy this year. Hardly injury prone of late. He would ahve been nice up in Brisbane this year. You cannot say Jamison and Bower will play 20 games next year, as they are constantly injured.

This just keeps getting worse.

Maguire's body is in poorer shape than Jamison's and Bower's who are quick.

Quit whilst you're behind.

- ??? Bad point. Hartlett got over the ground extremely well for a big man? And i would back maguire in to say he is quicker than that anyway. we are both just guessing. We are not privy to testing results.

I didn't say Hartlett was quick over the ground.

Read the post again.

I said that after all Maguire's leg injuries, Harts wouldn't be any slower.

Injuries have got the better of both of them unfortunately.

I'd rather have Cloke than Maguire if we want a list clogger.

- Thats why he will be tested. The key word in there was CAN. From what i saw he was moving fine throughout the year, nothing like a man who had constant injuries and was a "cripple".

VFL footy is miles away from the AFL.

Bannister and Saddington play well in the VFL.

If Maguire had regained his speed and mobility, why wasn't he picked for one game?

Even Dempster came back into the side after missing most of the year after a knee reconstruction.

They're both defenders.

It's pretty damning if you bring in Dempster ahead of another defender who was supposedly playing good footy again.

Someone needs to start a Facebook group and a protest group to get Maguire to Carlton.

 

[Jock]

I hope they put springs in his feet. He needs them - He couldn't run out of sight on a dark night

 

[mediumsizered]

Plenty of contrasting opinions in relation to Maguire, which is what a forum is all about, but let's not forget that everyone is entitled to an opinion & at this stage there is no right or wrong opinion in relation to Maguire.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

He was never that good before injury and since then he has hardly played a game in 3 years and lost a yard of pace as well as the ability to turn.

Thank you. This is what many people are failing to understand.

I think he has far less than a 50/50 chance of making it with us, but, before the broken leg he was an incredibly promising CHB that was taking on and beating most of the players he would come across. Including smashing Johnathon Brown multiple times through 2004-2005.

Short memory syndrome there.

Gooses problems this year stem from the fact that before St.Kilda's game against the Hawks in Launceston they'd used 26 players for the whole year to that point, from memory it was round 18 when they made 6 changes.

When a team who had lost no games to that point and went on to lose 3 for the whole year whilst at the same time having the greatest run of luck injury wise in many a year then its quite understandable that players find it incredibly difficult to force their way in.

Zac Dawson had a very, very good year. No-one can deny him that, he proved to the MC week in and week out that he was up to the job. He had a very ordinary last 2 games IMO, but the facts are that there was no way known that he was going to be chopped for the GF after his efforts throughout the year. So FFS, stop crapping on about Goose being unable to get a game ahead of him.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

I think he has far less than a 50/50 chance of making it with us, but, before the broken leg he was an incredibly promising CHB that was taking on and beating most of the players he would come across. Including smashing Johnathon Brown multiple times through 2004-2005.

Short memory syndrome there.

Gooses problems this year stem from the fact that before St.Kilda's game against the Hawks in Launceston they'd used 26 players for the whole year to that point, from memory it was round 18 when they made 6 changes.

When a team who had lost no games to that point and went on to lose 3 for the whole year whilst at the same time having the greatest run of luck injury wise in many a year then its quite understandable that players find it incredibly difficult to force their way in.

Zac Dawson had a very, very good year. No-one can deny him that, he proved to the MC week in and week out that he was up to the job. He had a very ordinary last 2 games IMO, but the facts are that there was no way known that he was going to be chopped for the GF after his efforts throughout the year. So FFS, stop crapping on about Goose being unable to get a game ahead of him.

Incorrect. After showing initial promise Maguire's career plateaued badly. You obviously didn't watch many of the games where he looked completely outclassed by more athletic opponents. The broken leg came well after.

Overrating syndrome.

 

[RiCHii]

I wasn't aware that Matt Maguire played for Carlton. I apologise.

On an entirely unrelated matter, Mark Austin, who does in fact play for Carlton, has my full support, and will be a better CHB than Maguire ever was.

Also, just quietly, I think Chris Judd might possibly have reached a higher level of performance in his career than Matt Maguire.

No he is not yet a Carlton player although he has been welcomed down to Carlton to have a trial and I throw my full support behind if the club has.

And No where in my argument did I state that I did not have any support for Austin.

 

[Blue and Silver]

Incorrect. After showing initial promise Maguire's career plateaued badly. You obviously didn't watch many of the games where he looked completely outclassed by more athletic opponents. The broken leg came well after.

Overrating syndrome.

Yes but every player has a scope for improvement, Maguire is only 25, if he can get back to fitness then his form could reach a new level. He was considered very promising prior to injury. Most players are likely to hit a form slump (Betts late 2009) it doesn't mean they are no longer useful.

 

[BlueFeaver]

Ok lets just look at the facts without focusing on Maguire

- We have lost 3 Key position players from our list (Fev, Hartlett and Edwards)
- We lost Fev who is no doubt the best full forward in the game.
- Our KP Forward depth was average at best this year.
- Anyone who says Cloke will play a role is kidding themselves
- Fisher can mark, but can't provide body on body contests, has no defensive side to his game and can't kick over a cake tin.
- We have a brigade of small crumbing forwards (Betts, Yarran, Garlett and to a lessor extent Murphy with 30 goals last year)
- Our best KP player that could do real damage is coming back from a Knee reco, historically it will take him a season to regain full confidence in his knee.
- We have the opportunity to draft a young key forward late in the draft rather than a mature age delistee, what is the success rate of this?

Now lets look at Maguire.....
- Can play forward or back, meaning we will have versatility to swap players around as needed (Thornton, Waite, Austin).
- Big body
- Smart player...more so than athletic
- Didn't get a game last year.........hmm, but Saints also one like 18 in a row and made the GF. No coach messes with a winning formula!
- Good skills
- Excellent attitude and will influence younger players.
- Has lost lateral movement due to leg injury......
- Fantastic work rate

Summary
I could think of worse players to draft, he has a great attitude and could do a job for us. I don't think he would play in defense, as I feel his athletism will ley him down even though his smarts are very good. I do beleive he could play out of the square with his smarts, work ethic, courage and commitment to the contest. With the likes of Betts, Yarran, Garlett, Walker, Houla, Murphy and Robinson all lurking at his feet it could be a very productive structure. We could them let Henderson and Setanta do the work further up the ground with also Hampson and Kruezer resting forward on occassion.

But, just my opionion!

 

[Jimthegreat]

Get used to it people, he's probably going to be playing for us barring a pre-draft mishap.

Wouldn't he have been handy at season's end when all our defenders we injured. Loved him in the EF when the Lions were running riot. Big bodies are handy, especially in finals as we saw last season.

 

[Weiterbot23]

Goose will be better than anything we would get with our 3rd pick in this draft.

Whos cares if he takes Austins spot, isn't it better for our team if our players are fighting for positions then just being handed them??

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

Goose will be better than anything we would get with our 3rd pick in this draft.

Whos cares if he takes Austins spot, isn't it better for our team if our players are fighting for positions then just being handed them??

I wouldn't have thought Austin has been handed anything. He is one of our most consistent young players, in that he is regularly in the best for the Bullants when not in the senior side. He has very much earned first crack at CHB next year.

And how do you know Goose will be better than anything else in this draft? This draft may be shallow, but the amount of rookie-listed players that have gone on to be accomplished AFL players is reason enough to take a punt on a youngster.

We know what we're getting with Maguire: a one-dimensional (kicking goals in the VFL doesn't mean he'll ever make an AFL forward), slow, injury-prone trier with great courage and a big heart. And I think even Goose would admit that his best years are probably behind him...

We won't know what we're getting with a late pick in the ND, but they might just turn out to be something special. Who ever would have thought that rookies in Jamison, Joseph, Thornton, Carrazzo and Garlett would end up being such important players for us?

Getting Maguire makes no sense, especially when we don't even have a deficiency in tall defenders.

 

[Blue and Silver]

In terms of types of Tall Defenders we should look at each of them individually:

Waite: Very good, can play loose or on a man, should take a couple of games to get back to form and half a season or more to get back to his best, MC will want to have him as either a permanent forward or as a regular swingman IMO

Bower: Provides great run as a tall HBF, had to play on opposition KPF due to injuries to Waite and Jamison, will be better suited at HBF IMO

Jamison: Fast, strong body on body, will be our regular FB barring injuries next season, has got a fairly good record against alot of high quality forwards

Thornton: Far better suited to third man up, zoning defender than to playing on opposition forwards, has very good marking ability and readsthe play well

Austin: Developing prospect, haven't seen a whole lot of him and can't comment, but due to youth I would assume would have trouble on big bodied forwards.

Henderson: Certainly will be played more forward then back, has done some good jobs on opponents while playing for the lions (Roughead comes to mind)

O'Halpin: Hasn't shown any great performances as a backmen, i think after his mid-season form at CHF that would be the more likely placement

So as i see it Jamison will definitly play on opposition power forwards, and possibly Waite or Bower, but both are suited to other positions. IF Maguire can prove he is capable of playing on opposition forwards, through his testing result then he should be picked up.

 

[Weiterbot23]

I wouldn't have thought Austin has been handed anything. He is one of our most consistent young players, in that he is regularly in the best for the Bullants when not in the senior side. He has very much earned first crack at CHB next year.

And how do you know Goose will be better than anything else in this draft? This draft may be shallow, but the amount of rookie-listed players that have gone on to be accomplished AFL players is reason enough to take a punt on a youngster.

We know what we're getting with Maguire: a one-dimensional (kicking goals in the VFL doesn't mean he'll ever make an AFL forward), slow, injury-prone trier with great courage and a big heart. And I think even Goose would admit that his best years are probably behind him...

We won't know what we're getting with a late pick in the ND, but they might just turn out to be something special. Who ever would have thought that rookies in Jamison, Joseph, Thornton, Carrazzo and Garlett would end up being such important players for us?

Getting Maguire makes no sense, especially when we don't even have a deficiency in tall defenders.

You must have been busy when we played Brisbane in the finals.

Are you against us having depth in the key defender department??


I saw Goose play a game in the VFL against box hill this year and he absolutely killed it! He looked 3 levels above everyone else on the field. Me and my mates couldn't believe he wasn't picked the next week.

Lyon is a knob! He is a stubborn w***er and cost St Kilda a flag by playing Dawson and Clarke instead of Max, and barely played Ball even though he was dominating. He cleary plays favorites and has vendettas against players. Who cares what he thinks, I trust Rob Harveys assesment of Goose's ability over lyons.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

You must have been busy when we played Brisbane in the finals.

Are you against us having depth in the key defender department??


I saw Goose play a game in the VFL against box hill this year and he absolutely killed it! He looked 3 levels above everyone else on the field. Me and my mates couldn't believe he wasn't picked the next week.

Lyon is a knob! He is a stubborn w***er and cost St Kilda a flag by playing Dawson and Clarke instead of Max, and barely played Ball even though he was dominating. He cleary plays favorites and has vendettas against players. Who cares what he thinks, I trust Rob Harveys assesment of Goose's ability over lyons.

Watch out St Kilda match committee!!

The same match committee who didn't deem Maguire worthy of a game for the entire season. But hey, perhaps next year they should consult with you and your mates on any selection issues they might be having?

And yes, we struggled without Jamison, Waite and Austin against Brisbane, and Bower playing on one leg. Take Scarlett, Taylor and Harley out of Geelong's backline and they'd probably struggle too. It's not every day that three of your best tall backs are all out injured...

And now we come to the salient point: Maguire most likely wouldn't have made a shred of difference against Brisbane. A slow defender is pretty much useless. The fact that he adds depth to the team means nothing, if that depth isn't of a good quality (remember Adam Hartlett?).

Just for your interest, I'd recommend that you follow this link and look at the videos of Levi Casboult and Daniel Archer. Obviously videos don't tell the entire story about a player, but both are tall forwards/utilities and are line ball to be drafted this year; perhaps late national draft/rookie prospects.

Tell me you wouldn't be more in favour of taking a punt on one of these kids with a late pick instead of recycling a player with a future as limited as Maguire's?

http://www.afl.com.au/offseason/carlton/carltondraftmachine/tabid/15235/newsid/86112/default.aspx

 

[Weiterbot23]

^Thats an awesome site.

I just don't understand why so many seem to be against bringing him in, he won't cost anything and if he doesn't deliver we can just delist him.

 

[BlueTongue]

So we're going to play Maguire forward ahead of Walker, Robinson, Henderson, Yarran, Waite, Austin, Kreuzer and Hampson?

I wouldn't be crowing about Walker as a forward... He can only kick them when he is on the run, 2 metres out, in an unguarded goal-square, even then it's 'if-y'. His kicking is dismal. I would have him on the bench atm. He has shown next to nothing in his time at CFC and is plagued by injury as you like to point out about Maguire.

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

I've resisted wading in on this but feel the need to pipe up because some of the rubbish being spouted by a few usual suspects is getting to me.

Maguire is known to be a consumate professional and an excellent team man. He gives us flexibility and depth where we need it....Anyone who paid more than passing attention to last season would have seen that it only takes 1-2 injuries to key players for our KP stocks to start looking a bit thin.

Is he going to be great? Maybe not. Is he crocked? Maybe. But to write him off because of his "injuries" when the vast majority of people on here don't know the first thing about the reality of the situation is ridiculous.

He's training with us. Our medical and coaching staff are having a good look at him. I'll trust them to come to the right decision about whether he's worth another shot. Until then, this is just a whole lot of hot air.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Goose will be better than anything we would get with our 3rd pick in this draft.

Whos cares if he takes Austins spot, isn't it better for our team if our players are fighting for positions then just being handed them??

fighting for positions for a hospital bed is what goose does alot of...

cos he hasnt played in THREE YEARS WITH A TWO TIME BADLY BROKEN LEG...

so far his mamager says hes right to go after getting the flick from stkilda who are very low in this field...

dreamin...

 

[Blue and Silver]

fighting for positions for a hospital bed is what goose does alot of...

cos he hasnt played in THREE YEARS WITH A TWO TIME BADLY BROKEN LEG...

so far his mamager says hes right to go after getting the flick from stkilda who are very low in this field...

dreamin...

Goose played the entirity of 2009 in the VFL, injury-free, Lyon wouldn't play him despite some form he had shown, possibly to keep unity in a team that won 18 games or so in a row

 

[Dramoth]

Watch out St Kilda match committee!!

The same match committee who didn't deem Maguire worthy of a game for the entire season. But hey, perhaps next year they should consult with you and your mates on any selection issues they might be having?

And yes, we struggled without Jamison, Waite and Austin against Brisbane, and Bower playing on one leg. Take Scarlett, Taylor and Harley out of Geelong's backline and they'd probably struggle too. It's not every day that three of your best tall backs are all out injured...

And now we come to the salient point: Maguire most likely wouldn't have made a shred of difference against Brisbane. A slow defender is pretty much useless. The fact that he adds depth to the team means nothing, if that depth isn't of a good quality (remember Adam Hartlett?).

Just for your interest, I'd recommend that you follow this link and look at the videos of Levi Casboult and Daniel Archer. Obviously videos don't tell the entire story about a player, but both are tall forwards/utilities and are line ball to be drafted this year; perhaps late national draft/rookie prospects.

Tell me you wouldn't be more in favour of taking a punt on one of these kids with a late pick instead of recycling a player with a future as limited as Maguire's?

http://www.afl.com.au/offseason/carlton/carltondraftmachine/tabid/15235/newsid/86112/default.aspx

Mate, if we take Goose, it will be as our last pick in the ND if he nominates or with our first pick in the PSD.

We will get him for nothing and if nothing else, he will provide the depth that we were lacking last year in defence.

 

[swans12]

I recall the same arguments last year re Cousins, with such lines as he will corrupt our playing group, is still on the juice, washed up etc etc commonplace. The fact is although I admit it is now with hindsight I felt at the time Cousins would have been a better option than the number 9 we selected in the PSD (although I was absolutely fleeced by other posters)

Sometimes we need to become a little realistic with our list, the fact is we weren't good enough for the last few years. Some guys have potential, but that doesn't win games.

Taking a chance with a Maguire, Thorp or a Cousins might work out and if not Delist them, its called list management.

Our defence struggled last year at times, so I am a yes for giving Maguire a go if the medical staff give him the nod.

Just my opinion.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

Mate, if we take Goose, it will be as our last pick in the ND if he nominates or with our first pick in the PSD.

We will get him for nothing and if nothing else, he will provide the depth that we were lacking last year in defence.

G'day mate.

Seeing as we are likely to only pick up 3 players in the draft or PSD, that last pick could be used on a Casboult or Archer.

If we are only selecting 3 players this year, I would much rather take a punt on a kid with our last pick than somebody who has almost certainly already played their best football. Is that so wrong?

So it won't be for nothing, it will be at the expense of a promising young player who might thrive in an AFL environment, like the above two tall forwards mentioned.