next brisbane coach (after voss)

[Dylan12]

Yep...and the ability to get players to take big pay cuts.. who by sheer luck just happen to be seasoned media performers...like here

A lot of our premiership heroes took massive pay cuts without being seasoned media performers. I think it has more to do with the individual themself and what they want to achieve as a player at the Lions in a successful team with their mates as opposed to only being driven by the almighty dollar...and to be honest IMO, Mitch Clark will be driven by the latter, whereas Tom Rockliff will be driven by the former.

 

[chopperduck]

Yeah, to be honest, i think we are going to learn a lot about Clark in the next 12 months, via his performance on and off the field.

 

[Football Pope]

A lot of our premiership heroes took massive pay cuts without being seasoned media performers. I think it has more to do with the individual themself and what they want to achieve as a player at the Lions in a successful team with their mates as opposed to only being driven by the almighty dollar...and to be honest IMO, Mitch Clark will be driven by the latter, whereas Tom Rockliff will be driven by the former.

Yep..difference being... IMO... our players took a pay cut to have a crack at history...Ball's pay cut may appear on the books as such.. but I expect him to be doing more paid media appearances...

 

[Dylan12]

Yep..difference being... IMO... our players took a pay cut to have a crack at history...Ball's pay cut may appear on the books as such.. but I expect him to be doing more paid media appearances...

Fair point Pope, although it would be nice if all the young boys wanted to create their own history as a group in about 5 years time and sacrificed a little for so much more. Can only hope.

 

[chopperduck]

I think some of them will, knowing that they are at the start of something that could be really good. Players like Rich who would probably look at something like a 3 year type contract means he is 23-24 for his next contract, and that is going to be his biggest and best, so i think some of them can still stay a touch low on this contract, knowing we don't have a lot of cash to put out.

Im sure the club will get creative with performance incentives as well, so they capacity to make a little extra is there for the players.

 

[JB75]

What concerns me about Voss is that he doesn't seem able to get the best out of his players. Very few players on our list have genuinely improved under Voss and many have gone backwards. I also question his eye for a footballer - Raines for example, is clearly not good enough to be a league footballer, his decision making is horrible and this is not something that can be fixed, yet Voss seems determined to persist.
He also seems to lack man management skills with many of the mid-age range players leaving in part due to their problematic relationship with the coach.

I fear that the longer Voss remains coach, the further into the mire the club will fall.

 

[Hollow Knight]

What concerns me about Voss is that he doesn't seem able to get the best out of his players. Very few players on our list have genuinely improved under Voss and many have gone backwards. I also question his eye for a footballer -

4 rising star nominations in the last 2 years.

Staker playing career best football.

Raines showing promise as a tagger.

Matt Maguire contributing nicely when fit.

Rischitelli became a B&F winner.

Bit of an unfair call IMO.

 

[Cousin Jed]

He also seems to lack man management skills with many of the mid-age range players leaving in part due to their problematic relationship with the coach.

That would be a small part when you consider the big $$$$$$ taken...

 

[Lets Roar like '44]

He also seems to lack man management skills with many of the mid-age range players leaving in part due to their problematic relationship with the coach.

Dont forget all the assistants that walked as well

 

[irel]

Dont forget all the assistants that walked as well

You mean like the assistants at Carlton, Geelong, Essendon, St Kilda, Collingwood ...

It's an annual merry go round at each end of season and it has nothing to do with man-management. It's cultural within the assistant’s ranks to try and experience as much of other club cultures and other coaching set ups in the hope of senior position preparation.

Voss has his faults but let’s not grasp at straws in order to pad up an already faulty argument.

 

[Mr Ripper]

No love for Joyce Brown ?

Unfortunately for everyone, one night someone did. And nine months later Fraser popped out.

 

[Grimreepah]

What concerns me about Voss is that he doesn't seem able to get the best out of his players.

So far this year IMO:

Clark - started to fire last week (still with a few things to iron out)
Sheldon -
Polec - promising first game
Power - going quite well even by his own lofty standards
Adcock - a few mistakes early, but looked like he was getting back to his best last week
Austin -
McGrath - so so. Not bad, but not at his best.
Rich - progressing steadily. Has taken a step forward this year.
Hanley - does some brilliant things, does some terrible things.
Hawksley -
Bartlett - injured
Staker - injured
Clarke - injured
Brown - injured
Beams - very promising first two games, fairly quiet last week
Banfield - has been a bit scratchy, but much better last week
Charman - injured
Black - continues to be brilliant (although some have mentioned his disposal has waned a bit)
Merrett - looking a lot better than last year
Collier -
Leuenberger - progressing nicely.
Patfull - has not been great.
McCulloch -
Dyson -
Harwood -
Raines - found his niche. Adding much more to the team than last year (although it seems not everyone agrees on this)
Redden - threatening to become elite. Very consistent, improved disposal, tackling machine.
Polkinghorne - heaps of talent but is still putting it together. His output has improved since last year.
Stiller - has been solid.
Buchanan - Looked better than last year IMO, although still dropped.
O'Brien - has improved out of sight.
Lester - is way ahead of schedule.
Maguire - injured.
Retzlaff -
Rockliff - big possession winner, but perhaps lacking a little hurt factor. His last game was arguably his best ever.
Drummond - injured
McKeever -
Golby -
Green -
Bewick - has so far played above expectations, but needs to be cleaner with his finishing.
Cornelius - looks to be going backwards
Harvey -
McCauley - looks like he could be an ok ruckman, but his stocks took a bit of a hit in his first game playing mainly as a forward.

All in all, that isn't too bad IMO. Not getting the best out of players is probably a fair assessment from last year, but a bit harsh from what we have seen so far this year.

 

[Stocka]

I reckon if the younger players on the list stand up and put in good performances then Voss's position will be safe and he'll get another 2-year deal. So far, the younger players have looked quite promising and the "next generation" is taking ownership over the team. I'd say that these are good signs.

However, if things completely fall in a heap and we revert back to the uncompetitive performances from last season for the majority of this season, particularly if our "game plan" looks shocking, then I wouldn't be surprised to see Voss move on himself.

If that occurred, dare I say it, but I reckon it would be worth not only having a look at P.Roos, but also R.Lyon, who I reckon may well have had a gutfull of the Saints by the year's end (big call, I guess, but just my prediction). Despite Lyon's infamous "ugly" style of play, I think he'd be capable of implementing a game plan that would see us improve as a team (which isn't to say that Voss won't in future, either). Chances are that with a different list and some reflection, Lyon may also use the opportunity to address some of the downfalls of his all-out-defense approach to the game, as well.

 

[alscotoz]

4 rising star nominations in the last 2 years.

Staker playing career best football.

Raines showing promise as a tagger.

Matt Maguire contributing nicely when fit.

Rischitelli became a B&F winner.

Bit of an unfair call IMO.

the words clutching and straws come to mind. What exactly was Voss's direct input into any of your tenuous defences of examples provided? Lions will finish bottom 4 which is commensurate with the list they have?

 

[whatboutbob]

the words clutching and straws come to mind. What exactly was Voss's direct input into any of your tenuous defences of examples provided? Lions will finish bottom 4 which is commensurate with the list they have?

I still can't believe that Voss drafted Spaanderman, Moody, Wood, Garner, Mills, Proud, Schmidt, Hendo and Collier. I mean, all those first and second round draft picks laid to waste. He should be sacked. Promptly.

Some crazies like TBD may suggest that if there's some evidence that the kids are developing under Vossy then he may have a leg to stand on when it comes to a new contract, but I say let's hang him for the parlous state of the Lions list. It is, after all, clearly all his fault.

 

[weevil]

I still can't believe that Voss drafted Spaanderman, Moody, Wood, Garner, Mills, Proud, Schmidt, Hendo and Collier. I mean, all those first and second round draft picks laid to waste. He should be sacked. Promptly.

Some crazies like TBD may suggest that if there's some evidence that the kids are developing under Vossy then he may have a leg to stand on when it comes to a new contract, but I say let's hang him for the parlous state of the Lions list. It is, after all, clearly all his fault.

Don’t forget that he got Brown, Drummond, Staker and Goose injured also. We'd be 2-1 right now if it wasn't for Voss.

 

[whatboutbob]

Don’t forget that he got Brown, Drummond, Staker and Goose injured also. We'd be 2-1 right now if it wasn't for Voss.

That's it. I'm calling in the mob.

I'll supply the torches but it is BYO pitchforks.

 

[Hollow Knight]

the words clutching and straws come to mind. What exactly was Voss's direct input into any of your tenuous defences of examples provided? Lions will finish bottom 4 which is commensurate with the list they have?

Yeah great point.

It is far more rational to blame Voss for everything that is wrong, and give him absolutely no credit for whatever is going right.

 

[mickeyblueeyes37]

Don’t forget that he got Brown, Drummond, Staker and Goose injured also. We'd be 2-1 right now if it wasn't for Voss.

Not Voss's fault for our crippled sides injury run, Lack of game plan yes and crappy moves across the ground.

The Logo and Jumper is the biggest pest though.
http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/206649_203882956309372_100000630072603_591602_5047064_s.jpg

 

[Tetris]

Not Voss's fault for our crippled sides injury run, Lack of game plan yes and crappy moves across the ground.

Just a hint mickey, I think weevil was joking...

 

[Stocka]

N.Craig will be available fairly soon.

 

[Jorgo]

N.Craig will be available fairly soon.

He's a permanent member of the Adelaide Football Club staff now. Not permanently the coach but accepted a permanent position not long ago in an interesting move.

He won't be going anywhere unless something changes even if they oust him as coach.

 

[Stocka]

Surely he wouldn't stick around if he got the sack mid-season, though. I think the only way his permanent position would work is if there were some sort of succession plan or if he decided to pull the pin himself and hand over the reigns to one of his assistants, with Craig then acting as a mentor for his successor.

I suppose though, the respect that Craig appears to be held in at Adelaide might save him from being sacked mid-season. I guess Adelaide also have a reputation of being one of the most professionally run clubs in the competition, meaning that they might be less likely to make a drastic mid-season move, rather than waiting until the end of the year.

 

[Dylan12]

He's a permanent member of the Adelaide Football Club staff now. Not permanently the coach but accepted a permanent position not long ago in an interesting move.

He won't be going anywhere unless something changes even if they oust him as coach.

From an interview I heard some weeks ago, Craig has serious options outside of football as a high performance consultant across a number of sports and from reports I have heard that will pay a lot more than what he is getting as head coach of the Crows...might explain his very laid back persona, but he is a highly credentialed man.

 

[western royboy]

Methinx Collingwood's wealth is beginning to have an effect also. Having the dosh to identify the right talent (Lachlan Keefe for example , rookie list successes etc), to develop them to their full potential plus the best/medical support teams. Throw in state of the art gym facilities & preseason (Arizona) routines and it is no wonder they are getting the best out of their 'cattle'. Is scary to the rest of the competition, not just us.

Well agree with choppers though, especially when you factor in the whole Fev debacle & generally inept club managment. The whole sad saga since 2004 is coming home to roost & to lay it all at Vossy's feet is a fairly simplistic assessment, IMO.

I think he still has a lot to learn but I doubt if anyone else would do much better over the next few years. IMO, Hadleys decisions are going to be more important in the long term.

edit: another factor, to me has been the absolute class & loyalty of Brown & Black. Every year we win games we should not on the back of these 2 champions - so we have not totally bottomed out to get the cream draft picks. Would you rather have not had these 2 for the last few years, so we have a better crop of kids now? Not me.

100% correct on all fronts.