Nick Daicos

[ferrisb]

Can anyone else recall a second year 20 year old player receiving as much attention and having every play he is involved in dissected to the nth degree in an attempt/hope to find a negative than is being done for this bloke?

I certainly can't.

Walsh garnered a heap of discussion and boatloads of nitpicking in his first couple of seasons. Although I doubt it was even half of the shade that has been thrown Naicos' way.

Footy fans love a precocious talent. Up to a point...then they stop lauding the kid's strengths and work overtime finding (any, even insignificant) weaknesses.

Massive tall poppy syndrome.

It should be said though that defenders of the player often go too far the other way and end up a little blind. That just enrages the critics more.

Nick Daicos is a ridiculously good player full stop. And even more extraordinary given it's just his 2nd season. Is he perfect? No. No player is. But he's closer than 90-95% of the league...

 

[ferrisb]

This might be a dumb analogy, but I think the best way to think about players is like a video game rating. Out of 10 for speed, strength, athleticism, kicking, game IQ etc.

Ronaldo and Messi are two of the greatest soccer players in history. Neither of them ever had a FIFA (video game) rating higher than 94/100. They still had (tiny pockets of) weakness. Areas they were still bloody good at, just not the very best in the world.

Fans spend more energy talking about the 6 points they are from perfection rather than the 94 points they are from me.

Sure, once you get to the pointy end of the talent pool, it's these tiny differences that separates one champion from another. But there are idiots out there that can only see the 6 points of weakness rather than the 94 points of talent. Others spend so much time defending the 94 that they can't concede any of the 6.

Daicos is a ******* gem. He's also not perfect in every single area. I think posters on both sides of the argument would do well to remember each of those statements.

 

[PieLebo87]

This might be a dumb analogy, but I think the best way to think about players is like a video game rating. Out of 10 for speed, strength, athleticism, kicking, game IQ etc.

Ronaldo and Messi are two of the greatest soccer players in history. Neither of them ever had a rating higher than 94/100. They still has (tiny pockets of) weakness. Areas they were still very good at, just not the best in the world.

Fans spend more energy talking about the 6 points they are from perfection rather than the 94 points they are from me.

Sure, once you get to the pointy end of the talent pool, it's these tiny differences that separates one champion from another. But there are idiots out there that can only see the 6 points of weakness rather than the 94 points of talent.

Daicos is a ******* gem. He's also not perfect in every single are. I think posters on both sides of the argument would do well to remember each of those statements.

Great analogy. I love it.

Reading through the Pendles thread, it’s his lack of strength when compared to Martin, Danger, Voss etc. and it made me laugh because that one simple attribute seemed to dictate to some why he isn’t one of the best of the modern era. Baffling really.

 

[adammania9]

I'm allowed to not rate him the best young midfielder of all time you know? Which is what you seem to be pushing as an argument.

I don't really care if he was likely to sweep the Brownlow, the fact that Neale won it should tell you plenty about the validity of that award at the moment.

He's simply not the same sort of player as Judd, Ablett or even Martin (or Dangerfield or Fyfe or Black or Buckley or Voss etc) were around the stoppages.

He can have 5 kick ins a game and be ultra damaging in transition, have the biggest motor in history, but he simply isn't going to be as good as those players around stoppage.

He's on the soft side of the spectrum, he seagulls as a second or even third receiver regularly if you watch him closely and gets a major % of his ball in defensive transition.

As I said, I compare him to an even better version of Dal Santo (who was a ******* gun still, but just a "different" player to those others)

Is he going to be a force at FF like Martin? Who knows, he's mainly played off half back with stints in the middle.

So he's not the best young player around stoppages we've seen. Tend to agree. But why would you waste an amazing runner and kicker like Daicos in the contests when somebody can win the hard ball for him?

 

[Reg Grundy35]

So he's not the best young player around stoppages we've seen. Tend to agree. But why would you waste an amazing runner and kicker like Daicos in the contests when somebody can win the hard ball for him?

Its an odd internet thing. Anonymous non-athletic men somehow try to demonstrate their imagined testosterone level by casting dispersions on the toughness (in other words masculinity) of young athletes who are widely recognised as elite champions. Not sure if they are trying to take them down a peg or two, or trying to impress other like minded he-men of their "manliness". Its kind of like an on-line text based pissing contest where no one can see their trickle.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Its an odd internet thing. Anonymous non-athletic men somehow try to demonstrate their imagined testosterone level by casting dispersions on the toughness (in other words masculinity) of young athletes who are widely recognised as elite champions. Not sure if they are trying to take them down a peg or two, or trying to impress other like minded he-men of their "manliness". Its kind of like an on-line text based pissing contest where no one can see their trickle.

Who cares, he won the flag for his side on one leg

Twenty years old, 46 games, 3rd in Brownlow, 3rd in Norm Smith

Watch the career of the GOAT unfold!!

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

If you remove his kick outs (56 for the season - he played on from every single one as he’s not silly) he goes from averaging 2nd most possessions per game to 14th. From 18th most kicks per game to 60th. From 24th in metres gained per game to about 50th.

It would also reduce his player ratings and disposal efficiency as it’s not hard finding a target from the kick in … and a long kick to a contest counts as an effective disposal.

He takes the kick outs because he’s a great kick and great decision maker, so of course it’s a skill many don’t have. But the sooner the game removes those stats from the players the better, particularly when the umpires will be getting back access to the stats for Brownlow voting in 2024.

A game with 26 kicks and 7 handballs at 82% DE with 770m gained looks a hell of a lot better than a game with 19 kicks and 7 handballs at 71% DE with 490m gained … thanks to 7 kick outs.

This goes for all players, not just Daicos. It provides a statistical anomaly that is zero to do with the player’s performance.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Did your statistical analysis take out his game against Hawthorn when he was off in the 3rd quarter and had 5 touches?

Did it also question the kick in stats of all the 13 that were apparently above him?

Daicos is not hard as a Selwood type at the ball. But people need to get their head around the fact he doesn't need to be. When you have the best all round skill in the game at 20, why the hell would we want him doing the dirty work?

 

[Caligo]

Its an odd internet thing. Anonymous non-athletic men somehow try to demonstrate their imagined testosterone level by casting dispersions on the toughness (in other words masculinity) of young athletes who are widely recognised as elite champions. Not sure if they are trying to take them down a peg or two, or trying to impress other like minded he-men of their "manliness". Its kind of like an on-line text based pissing contest where no one can see their trickle.

I think you meant aspersion not dispersion.

But on the wider point, I think there is some of that, but there are also people who are frustrated by the extraordinary level of exaggeration that is used to describe certain players, and then there are people frustrated by how the calling out of the exaggeration is itself exaggerated. And round and round it goes.

 

[Caligo]

Did your statistical analysis take out his game against Hawthorn when he was off in the 3rd quarter and had 5 touches?

Not sure it is right to remove that game. He was being dominated by Finn from start to when he left the ground.

I tend to think that game should be highlighted as how to go about managing damaging outside players.

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

Not sure it is right to remove that game. He was being dominated by Finn from start to when he left the ground.

I tend to think that game should be highlighted as how to go about managing damaging outside players.

Our whole team was dominated by Hawthorn that day. I'm confident Daicos will get one on Finn next year at their next meeting.

 

[Smithdogmaddog]

I just find myself saying “**** he’s good” out loud every time I watch him play. His positioning, decision making and skill execution is something I don’t think I’ve ever seen before at such a high standard especially from a young player.

 

[Caligo]

Our whole team was dominated by Hawthorn that day. I'm confident Daicos will get one on Finn next year at their next meeting.

This is the third time in a row Finn has absolutely annihilated Nick (one of them was a pre season game). But maybe 4th time is the charm?

Genuinely though I don't understand why other clubs don't do it. Finn is strong and a good runner but he isn't special. Every team would have a VFL/WAFL/SANFL player on their list who could do something similar.

 

[PieLebo87]

This is the third time in a row Finn has absolutely annihilated Nick (one of them was a pre season game). But maybe 4th time is the charm?

Genuinely though I don't understand why other clubs don't do it. Finn is strong and a good runner but he isn't special. Every team would have a VFL/WAFL/SANFL player on their list who could do something similar.

Can you please confirm what these three games were?

I recall Round 21 when he got injured and came off in the third, you keep bringing up the pre season game (which is a really weird flex) but what was the first game? The one game Hawks played the Pies last year, Daicos had a game high 36 possessions.

 

[Caligo]

Can you please confirm what these three games were?

I recall Round 21 when he got injured and came off in the third, you keep bringing up the pre season game (which is a really weird flex) but what was the first game? The one game Hawks played the Pies last year, Daicos had a game high 36 possessions.

Did you watch the game? He had a huge number of disposals chipping it round the backline but had no impact at all.

DeGoey, Henry and Ginnivan (diving) absolutely killed us though.

 

[PieLebo87]

Did you watch the game? He had a huge number of disposals chipping it round the backline but had no impact at all.

DeGoey, Henry and Ginnivan (diving) absolutely killed us though.

He had both Brownlow votes and coaches votes that game…

EDIT: coaches had him as 2nd BOG

 

[Caligo]

He had both Brownlow votes and coaches votes that game…

EDIT: coaches had him as 2nd BOG
View attachment 1821165

Sounds like I am just remembering it wrong. Not sure how I did that, but accept it.

 

[cliffdrabble]

This is the third time in a row Finn has absolutely annihilated Nick (one of them was a pre season game). But maybe 4th time is the charm?

Genuinely though I don't understand why other clubs don't do it. Finn is strong and a good runner but he isn't special. Every team would have a VFL/WAFL/SANFL player on their list who could do something similar.

Imo, the way Finn plays should be umpired out of the game. The vision of him at a boundary throw in, arms rapped around Nick and with his back to the play is borderline cheating.

As GOODWIN said, he has no desire to get the ball. Nick did not handle that type of attention well but it is a blight on the game.

He didn't annihilate NICK , he simply forced a nil all draw, which was the obvious intention.

 

[Caligo]

Imo, the way Finn plays should be umpired out of the game. The vision of him at a boundary throw in, arms rapped around Nick and with his back to the play is borderline cheating.

As GOODWIN said, he has no desire to get the ball. Nick did not handle that type of attention well but it is a blight on the game.

He didn't annihilate NICK , he simply forced a nil all draw, which was the obvious intention.

He got more disposals than Nick did.

I would have liked to have seen tagging banned back when clubs were tagging Sam Mitchell constantly, but I doubt you were complaining then.

If the umpires see a hold they call it. And the call it more when it is a protected player like Nick. Did you watch him dropping the knees for frees on the weekend? If you want to complain about something, maybe start with staging.

 

[Vindicater]

This might be a dumb analogy, but I think the best way to think about players is like a video game rating. Out of 10 for speed, strength, athleticism, kicking, game IQ etc.

Ronaldo and Messi are two of the greatest soccer players in history. Neither of them ever had a FIFA (video game) rating higher than 94/100. They still had (tiny pockets of) weakness. Areas they were still bloody good at, just not the very best in the world.

Fans spend more energy talking about the 6 points they are from perfection rather than the 94 points they are from me.

Sure, once you get to the pointy end of the talent pool, it's these tiny differences that separates one champion from another. But there are idiots out there that can only see the 6 points of weakness rather than the 94 points of talent. Others spend so much time defending the 94 that they can't concede any of the 6.

Daicos is a ******* gem. He's also not perfect in every single area. I think posters on both sides of the argument would do well to remember each of those statements.

What is the famous Brian Scalabrine quote he said to some hecklers?

"I am far closer to a Lebron than you are to me."

 

[cliffdrabble]

Walsh garnered a heap of discussion and boatloads of nitpicking in his first couple of seasons. Although I doubt it was even half of the shade that has been thrown Naicos' way.

Footy fans love a precocious talent. Up to a point...then they stop lauding the kid's strengths and work overtime finding (any, even insignificant) weaknesses.

Massive tall poppy syndrome.

It should be said though that defenders of the player often go too far the other way and end up a little blind. That just enrages the critics more.

Nick Daicos is a ridiculously good player full stop. And even more extraordinary given it's just his 2nd season. Is he perfect? No. No player is. But he's closer than 90-95% of the league...

Walsh is an absolute gun. Shoved it right up his critic's arse with a magnificent finals series. As FRANK HARDY used to say of critics 'They are like eunuchs in a harem"

 

[cliffdrabble]

He got more disposals than Nick did.

I would have liked to have seen tagging banned back when clubs were tagging Sam Mitchell constantly, but I doubt you were complaining then.

If the umpires see a hold they call it. And the call it more when it is a protected player like Nick. Did you watch him dropping the knees for frees on the weekend? If you want to complain about something, maybe start with staging.

Every player in the history of the game has played for frees at some stage. it is the smart thing to do and up to umpires to determine the outcome. Every free kick he got in the GF was earned and correctly paid. Unlike when we were playing a team with the ugliest guernesy in world sport.

GOD, do you remember when ' freekickhawthorn'' was a thing. LUKE Hodge was a master at drawing a free kick.

I have been a critic of tagging for more than 40 years from the time when SHANE HEARD used to tag Peter Daicos. GREG Williams was best at getting rid of a tag , because he would belt them. You can't do that anymore. Quite rightly.

 

[Caligo]

Every player in the history of the game has played for frees at some stage. it is the smart thing to do and up to umpires to determine the outcome. Every free kick he got in the GF was earned and correctly paid. Unlike when we were playing a team with the ugliest guernesy in world sport.

GOD, do you remember when ' freekickhawthorn'' was a thing.

I have been a critic of tagging for more than 40 years from the time when SHANE HEARD used to tag Peter Daicos. GREG Williams was best at getting rid of a tag , because he would belt them. You can't do that anymore. Quite rightly.

I do remmeber when freekickhawthorn was a thing. In the collective 4 years hawthorn have won flags this century, their overall free kick differential was -108. This is the worst free kick differential of any team in the era across all their flags.

It was jealousy pure and simple, mostly invented by Geelong supporters because their captain literally was playing for frees every single game.

People just don't like the fact that Hawthorn have won more flags than any other club during their life. However old they are.

 

[Lifelong Pie]

I do remmeber when freekickhawthorn was a thing. In the collective 4 years hawthorn have won flags this century, their overall free kick differential was -108. This is the worst free kick differential of any team in the era across all their flags.

It was jealousy pure and simple, mostly invented by Geelong supporters because their captain literally was playing for frees every single game.

People just don't like the fact that Hawthorn have won more flags than any other club during their life. However old they are.

Not if they are aged 7 or under

 

[patmatcat]

He is the best decision maker in the game at present.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

This is the third time in a row Finn has absolutely annihilated Nick (one of them was a pre season game). But maybe 4th time is the charm?

Genuinely though I don't understand why other clubs don't do it. Finn is strong and a good runner but he isn't special. Every team would have a VFL/WAFL/SANFL player on their list who could do something similar.

probably not as smart as you