News NMFC & Tassie (the mass debate re our future there, the academy, attending advice)

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KickItAnywhere34 said:
Just want to pass on the conversation I had with Sonja Hood in Hobart airport back in May this year. I politely asked when we would get 11 home games back in Melbourne - her response and I quote “sooner rather than later” and “myself and most of the board would like it to be next year (2023) but if not the year after.
She then proceeded to advise me they had completed financial projections and they were very close to making the books balance without Tassie money but were not quite there hence her second comment.
Don’t be fooled here - Sonja and the club want to be back in Melbourne full time - it’s not if it’s just a matter of when and 2024 would be a good time to make it happen (apologies Euge :stern look).
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They most likely will stay here until 2026 because that is the year before tassie is most likely getting their team.
 
Mr Taswegian said:
They most likely will stay here until 2026 because that is the year before tassie is most likely getting their team.
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Not sure I agree - when you look at it the Tas government will have a stake in the new team. If they start in 2027 then you’d have to think government money will start to flow at least 2 years prior in 2025. I can’t see the government paying us to play in Hobart past 2024 on that basis and maybe even after this year if they have to stump up extra for the stadium.
 
They may well do what they did with the Gold Coast and keep playing games there until the expansion side debuts but take the games away from North Melbourne and Hawthorn and spread them around so as to wean the locals off supporting Melbourne teams.
 

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KickItAnywhere34 said:
Not sure I agree - when you look at it the Tas government will have a stake in the new team. If they start in 2027 then you’d have to think government money will start to flow at least 2 years prior in 2025. I can’t see the government paying us to play in Hobart past 2024 on that basis and maybe even after this year if they have to stump up extra for the stadium.
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They have always said they want to make sure they keep AFL games in Tasmania right up until we get a team, but I understand what you are saying.
 
Too Many Hyphens said:
I agree with this. The whole not enough talent thing is such horse s**t. Do you know what the perfect number of teams is to ensure the best talent? It's two. That's it, just two teams. Any more than that and you are letting inferior players play. No other number makes sense and every number larger than that is a dilution of talent. So whether it's 12 or 16 or 18 or 19 doesn't matter.
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But it does matter.

Had Gold Coast and GWS not entered the competition then our ability to compete in 14 & 15 increases. We’d go from having our first pick at 18 in some drafts to picks inside the top 10, with the draft actually being deeper through there being no preselections.

Adding teams effects the teams in the system.

There’s been debate about what poor a spectacle the game becomes when you’re having team with no incentive playing dead rubbers. More teams, with less talent will mean more of that.


Too Many Hyphens said:
As for Gold Coast being proof of anyone's argument, how about the fact that it took us 50 years to win a flag in a 12 team competition? Is that proof that we shouldn't have been allowed into the VFL in 1925? Or how about StKilda taking 69 years to win a premiership? No new club should be guaranteed success. They should have to earn it.
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I don’t care whether they’re successful. But the argument of we might miss a champion is folly.

Even Sydney who have had an academy the longest have contributed very few champions vs the champions taken from the established systems.

How many years as a collective have the academies been around? How many champions have they produced from a non footballing background or a non traditional area? Compare that tally to the tally of players taken out of established systems.


As to success being an indicator, we’ve already seen the expansion clubs becoming feeder clubs for the bigger Victorian clubs.

More clubs will mean it intrinsically becomes harder for North Melbourne to win a flag. It’ll be harder to attract talent.

Too Many Hyphens said:
And besides, you really shouldn't be arguing that Gold Coast should be booted for Tasmania because a democratic vote of AFL clubs or AFL supporters over which AFL club should be forced to go to Tasmania might not go the way you want.
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I don’t want a 19th side. I think the net effect would be a negative for us. I don’t care about the geography of it.
 
Cyber_punk said:
Feels like the talent pool was diluted enough after GC and GWS. 19 teams is really pushing it. I say we get rid of GC when Tassie comes in.
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Id agree but they have real supporters that it would hurt. That’s the same type of way big club supporters think about North.
 
Only Forwards said:
I don’t want a 19th side. I think the net effect would be a negative for us. I don’t care about the geography of it.
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So you're basically saying you'd prefer North relocate to Tasmania rather than expand to a 19 team competition because most of the AFL community would vote for us to relocate ahead of Gold Coast.
 
if the club are close to balancing without tasi money. 2 games per year for next 2 years should be acceptable 4 is way too many per year and taking away from those loyal Melbourne members especially when make up games don't count for those home and away north members who used to get 16 games a year in Melbourne
 
wolvesRoos said:
our crowds are down due to performance yes but i presume the prem club ghost town could be due to the room temporarily being in the forward pocket. I walk back to centre wing and i bet the crowd spread from centre wing back to outside the room itself. hopefully the other room is ready for next year after renovations.

not sure if its true but dont people say other club fans pay same for 11 game premium membership that we do for 7. if thats the case it would get more people over the line as if ur going to miss more than one game currently u think is it worth it
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Really hope the Premiership Room is back in its original location next year, it was really crap what we had this year (being in the forward pocket).

It really didn't feel like a premium seating area this year on the wing.

Copping opposition fans in the seats wasn't ideal either.

The better fan experience I thought was in the replacement game bays.
 
I find it interesting that people will be so strong on the idea that there definitely isn't enough talent to support a 19th team. It seems plausible to me that the talent is there, but that clubs will have to work harder and smarter to both find the talent and to harness it. Everyone has biases that affects their judgement; for me I'd like to see a traditional footy state like Tassie getting a team and I'd love for North to play all their home games in Melbourne.

Rookie Drafts from 2013 onwards:

Premiership player, All-Australian &/or club B&F:

James Harmes, Charlie Cameron, Jack Sinclair, Reilly O'Brien, Adam Saad, Jason Castagna, Kane Lambert, Ivan Soldo, Tom Papley, Tyson Stengle, Jack Henry, Zach Guthrie, Liam Baker, Tom Atkins & Brad Close. (Yep, Soldo is probably lucky to be in that list)


Other Rookie Draft players from 2013 onwards:

Nic Newman, Conor McKenna, Sam Reid, Anthony McD-Tipungwuti, Dan Houston, Hugh Greenwood, Alex Keith, Rowan Marshall, Cam Zurhaar, Robbie Fox, Oscar McInerney, Bailey Banfield, Brody Mihocek, Lachlan Murphy, Callum Wilkie, Ben Keays & Jack Ginnevan.
 
Too Many Hyphens said:
So you're basically saying you'd prefer North relocate to Tasmania rather than expand to a 19 team competition because most of the AFL community would vote for us to relocate ahead of Gold Coast.
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Is that what I’m saying is it?

I’d prefer to maintain the status quo than to introduce a 19th side.

You make it sound like that choice would be fronted to clubs. It never would be.

You’re playing in a theoretical world here.

In the real world we’ve seen:

-expansion clubs drain talent and compromise drafts for establishment
  • re-compromise drafts to prop them up less than a decade later
  • have major games have sub 10k games in Blacktown
  • top teir talent leave the expansion clubs and go almost exclusively to big Melbourne clubs

I feel for Tassie because comparatively they should have had a side before GC, but they absolutely should have had a side before Western Sydney. At least some of the Queenslanders get footy.

IMO a 19 side is a step closer to having a division within the league between clubs that can compete for a flag and those that can feed clubs that compete for the flag.

A 19th side means more mediocrity and more also rans.
 
Only Forwards said:
Is that what I’m saying is it?

I’d prefer to maintain the status quo than to introduce a 19th side.

You make it sound like that choice would be fronted to clubs. It never would be.

You’re playing in a theoretical world here.

In the real world we’ve seen:

-expansion clubs drain talent and compromise drafts for establishment
  • re-compromise drafts to prop them up less than a decade later
  • have major games have sub 10k games in Blacktown
  • top teir talent leave the expansion clubs and go almost exclusively to big Melbourne clubs

I feel for Tassie because comparatively they should have had a side before GC, but they absolutely should have had a side before Western Sydney. At least some of the Queenslanders get footy.

IMO a 19 side is a step closer to having a division within the league between clubs that can compete for a flag and those that can feed clubs that compete for the flag.

A 19th side means more mediocrity and more also rans.
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If you think Gold Coast can be forced to go to Tasmania, then you are conceding that North Melbourne can be forced to go to Tasmania. If you are actively campaigning for Gold Coast to be forced to go to Tasmania, then you are accepting the right of other club supporters to have a say in where we play our home games and you are opening us up to being forced to go to Tasmania. If you think the club that relocates should be based on popular vote of other clubs and other club supporters with the affected club getting no say in it, then you are allowing 17 other clubs and their supporters to decide North Melbourne's fate.
 

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Too Many Hyphens said:
If you think Gold Coast can be forced to go to Tasmania, then you are conceding that North Melbourne can be forced to go to Tasmania. If you are actively campaigning for Gold Coast to be forced to go to Tasmania, then you are accepting the right of other club supporters to have a say in where we play our home games and you are opening us up to being forced to go to Tasmania. If you think the club that relocates should be based on popular vote of other clubs and other club supporters with the affected club getting no say in it, then you are allowing 17 other clubs and their supporters to decide North Melbourne's fate.
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I think on a long enough timeline both Gold Coast and GWS will prove to never have the desired cut through.

GWS more so.

Gold Coast has traditionally struggled to maintain interest in sporting clubs. In fact they already partially failed as an AFL club. They took the best player in the league for nothing. They took concessions on multiple drafts. Then within 10 years of that they had to go back and ask for more.

In Blacktown we’ve already seen top 4 clashes where the crowd was woeful. How’s it going to be if they need to actually bottom out? Have home games that attract less than our AFLW side does to Arden st?


So honestly it’s less forcing one down their than stop artificially propping them up and wait.
 
Only Forwards said:
I think on a long enough timeline both Gold Coast and GWS will prove to never have the desired cut through.

GWS more so.

Gold Coast has traditionally struggled to maintain interest in sporting clubs. In fact they already partially failed as an AFL club. They took the best player in the league for nothing. They took concessions on multiple drafts. Then within 10 years of that they had to go back and ask for more.

In Blacktown we’ve already seen top 4 clashes where the crowd was woeful. How’s it going to be if they need to actually bottom out? Have home games that attract less than our AFLW side does to Arden st?


So honestly it’s less forcing one down their than stop artificially propping them up and wait.
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This. GC is where sporting clubs go to die.
 
Too Many Hyphens said:
If you think Gold Coast can be forced to go to Tasmania, then you are conceding that North Melbourne can be forced to go to Tasmania. If you are actively campaigning for Gold Coast to be forced to go to Tasmania, then you are accepting the right of other club supporters to have a say in where we play our home games and you are opening us up to being forced to go to Tasmania. If you think the club that relocates should be based on popular vote of other clubs and other club supporters with the affected club getting no say in it, then you are allowing 17 other clubs and their supporters to decide North Melbourne's fate.
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This is true.

But if it comes down to us vs them - we have over twice as many members and some very passionate supporters. We can make it harder for the AFL.
 
Too Many Hyphens said:
If you think Gold Coast can be forced to go to Tasmania, then you are conceding that North Melbourne can be forced to go to Tasmania. If you are actively campaigning for Gold Coast to be forced to go to Tasmania, then you are accepting the right of other club supporters to have a say in where we play our home games and you are opening us up to being forced to go to Tasmania. If you think the club that relocates should be based on popular vote of other clubs and other club supporters with the affected club getting no say in it, then you are allowing 17 other clubs and their supporters to decide North Melbourne's fate.
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The AFL own GC though so it’s a completely different situation.
 
Mr Taswegian said:
The AFL is working on a recruitment plan to make sure a tassie team is decent from day one so I'm confident they will do ok.
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The only problem is that the afl are incompetent
They measure once and cut several times
 
Only Forwards said:
I think on a long enough timeline both Gold Coast and GWS will prove to never have the desired cut through.

GWS more so.

Gold Coast has traditionally struggled to maintain interest in sporting clubs. In fact they already partially failed as an AFL club. They took the best player in the league for nothing. They took concessions on multiple drafts. Then within 10 years of that they had to go back and ask for more.

In Blacktown we’ve already seen top 4 clashes where the crowd was woeful. How’s it going to be if they need to actually bottom out? Have home games that attract less than our AFLW side does to Arden st?


So honestly it’s less forcing one down their than stop artificially propping them up and wait.
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The Giants don’t play at Blacktown, they play at Sydney Olympic Park.

I know people find it hard to see, but the growth of the game in NSW and Queensland, where more than 50% of the population live, directly benefits us.

You can argue about how effectively the AFL and the two new clubs have gone about it, but strategically it was the right call.
 
How would you guys feel about a couple of games in Albury (Lavington). Recently upgraded, in you old turf.

Hawks are pushing for a game or two in Launceston after Tas come in (unlikely that TAS/AFL will allow this).
 
Walshawk said:
How would you guys feel about a couple of games in Albury (Lavington). Recently upgraded, in you old turf.

Hawks are pushing for a game or two in Launceston after Tas come in (unlikely that TAS/AFL will allow this).
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It is a bit sad that Launceston is getting squeezed out of the AFL market in all this Tasmania expansion / Hobart stadium planning.

There was a suggestion that North could play a border rivalry game or two each year against Sydney and/or GWS. I think it has merit.
 

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News NMFC & Tassie (the mass debate re our future there, the academy, attending advice)

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