Opinion Non-Crows AFL 11

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Crazy all the shit talk about Goodwin.

2021 - FLAG
2022 - 2nd on ladder.
2023 - 4th (lost their 2 finals by a combined 9 points)
2024 - 14th - 3 games clear of Adelaide.

In 2024 - he loses Brayshaw (4th in their 2023 B&F), Petracca 13 games and Oliver to shit form due to his issues.
Poor bloke effectively lost his engine room in 2024 and still finished above us.

Got the Sando luck of 2013. Can he rebound - it remains to be seen, but have zero idea why he has such a bad rep on this board.

Nothing wrong with his record pat all. I think the question marks relate to the rumours about him enjoying the odd nose beer and whether he’s senior coach of a current version of the west coke eagles. There’s been a fair bit of smoke coming from there with their ex prez and talk of AFL involving themselves at one point.

But he’s still there and if he became available I’d trust Neil Balme to make the right call.
 
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Not rubbish at all!

Were the best team comfortably when they won the flag & have dropped out of the premiership window quicker than expected with plenty of unrest.

They were top 4 for two years after their flag win and a genuine flag chance in 2022,2023.

Their 2024 campaign was railroaded losing Brayshaw forever in the preseason. They were 7-5 entering the game where they lost Petracca for the rest of the year.

That isn't very quickly.

Adelaide after 2017 was a very quick drop.
West Coast after 2018 was a very quick drop.
Bulldogs after 2016 was a very quick drop.

Do you seriously think they are still in the premiership window? Seriously?

I haven't said this. Nor have I suggested I think this.

I think they are in a fair bit of bother entering this year, but it aint Goody's fault.
 

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No idea how you can underperform by winning a flag. Getting a list to a single flag is a tremendous achievement.
Of course, but coaches aren't judged based on a single year.

In 2024 they still had 18 of their premiership best 22, and since that flag they haven't even won a final.

The quality of Melbourne's list is exceptional, it wasn't gutted after winning the flag, most of it is still there and so to only make a single grand final with it is underperforming. So is finishing top 4 twice and going out in straight sets back to back.

Melbourne supporters want him gone. They feel since that flag he's burnt maybe the best list in the league and I agree.
 
No idea how you can underperform by winning a flag. Getting a list to a single flag is a tremendous achievement.
Where would you rate him amongst the single flag winners in the afl era?
Beverage
simpson
Worstfold
Roos
McRae
Longmire
Williams
 
They were 10th favourite for the flag going into the 2021 season, paying 22/1

They weren't some sure thing

The criticism of Goodwin is just stunning. It's like Vader bagging Travis Head after a failure despite dominating previous tests
I feel we keep ignoring the controversy that surrounds Goodwin, and how that impacts people's willingness to be generous towards any underperformance.
 
I feel we keep ignoring the controversy that surrounds Goodwin, and how that impacts people's willingness to be generous towards any underperformance.
And also how little that matters

(Some...? Lots of...?) posters on here would be happier if we appointed a cleanskin like Ratten next season than Goodwin which shows how utterly insane the argument is
 
Where would you rate him amongst the single flag winners in the afl era?
Beverage
simpson
Worstfold
Roos
McRae
Longmire
Williams
He'd be the most criticised of this group by a trillion percent
 
I do think a premiership win permanently establishes a coaches reputation. They can **** up from that point on but nobody can take their title of "premiership winning coach". It probably isn't much consolation to fans who have their eyes set on what's immediately in front of them.
 
And also how little that matters

(Some...? Lots of...?) posters on here would be happier if we appointed a cleanskin like Ratten next season than Goodwin which shows how utterly insane the argument is

People want a coach that would be able to win a premiership with our list.

Goodwin's inability to back up his premiership with even a finals win of any kind, with an amazing list and midfield, throws up a huge red flag if he was to move to a club with a worse list, like ours
 
People want a coach that would be able to win a premiership with our list.

Goodwin's inability to back up his premiership with even a finals win of any kind, with an amazing list and midfield, throws up a huge red flag if he was to move to a club with a worse list, like ours
Using similar logic we wouldn't have appointed Blight. Couldn't get across the line with an exceptional team
 

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People want a coach that would be able to win a premiership with our list.

Goodwin's inability to back up his premiership with even a finals win of any kind, with an amazing list and midfield, throws up a huge red flag if he was to move to a club with a worse list, like ours

I mean, if we don't have a premiership capable list and we're ending our rebuild and expecting a premiership we probably have a bigger problem.
 
You’d be in denial if you didn’t think there was shit going down at Melbourne to want players out and if some of that isn’t attributed to Goodwin and if rumours are true, would you want him at your club?

Melbourne have had a very talented list so he had a lot to work with.

But they are very one dimensional going forward and he hasn’t changed that glaring weakness.

Plus I’m not sure how the players don’t fall asleep when he talks.

Premiership aside, I wouldn’t want him.
 
Using similar logic we wouldn't have appointed Blight. Couldn't get across the line with an exceptional team
It would have been a red flag for sure.

What Blight had in his favour was he made three grand finals so you could have said he was unlucky not to come away with a flag. Never went winless in a finals campaign.

I don't think you could say Goodwin has been unlucky
 
You’d be in denial if you didn’t think there was shit going down at Melbourne to want players out and if some of that isn’t attributed to Goodwin and if rumours are true, would you want him at your club?

Melbourne have had a very talented list so he had a lot to work with.

But they are very one dimensional going forward and he hasn’t changed that glaring weakness.

Plus I’m not sure how the players don’t fall asleep when he talks.

Premiership aside, I wouldn’t want him.
As I said before, something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

If your best 2 All Australian midfielders on long term contracts want out, there are some underlying issues that i doubt can be resolved.
 
It would have been a red flag for sure.

What Blight had in his favour was he made three grand finals so you could have said he was unlucky not to come away with a flag. Never went winless in a finals campaign.

I don't think you could say Goodwin has been unlucky
It does seem like the COVID year was more of an outlier than all the years of finals losses.
 
I mean, if we don't have a premiership capable list and we're ending our rebuild and expecting a premiership we probably have a bigger problem.
Some clubs have more than just a premiership capable list. They have elite foundations to set up a period of sustained success.

I don't believe for a second that Geelong would be as successful in finals (and good enough to win that 2022 flag) without Chris Scott as a coach. They clearly had a premiership capable list, but it needed an elite coach to deliver the flag.

Goodwin (and Beveridge) do not strike me as that sort of coach
 
You’d be in denial if you didn’t think there was shit going down at Melbourne to want players out and if some of that isn’t attributed to Goodwin and if rumours are true, would you want him at your club?

Melbourne have had a very talented list so he had a lot to work with.

But they are very one dimensional going forward and he hasn’t changed that glaring weakness.

Plus I’m not sure how the players don’t fall asleep when he talks.

Premiership aside, I wouldn’t want him.

Would I take Goodwin over Nicks? Absolutely. Immediately. Nicks is a complete dud.

Do I think Goodwin could actually deliver a flag at our club with our current list? I doubt it.
 
It does seem like the COVID year was more of an outlier than all the years of finals losses.

It's hard to say. Goodwin was good enough to get Melbourne into three consecutive top 4 finishes which is a very strong indicator the side is good enough to win a premiership.

I think he's a bit one dimensional and rigid which is why he hasn't been able to back up the flag. He's able to build a side that easily beats worse teams but lacks the edge to consistently perform well against good sides. Almost like a luckier version of Ken Hinkley with a better list.

In contrast Adam Simpson is another single premiership coach that to me was able to elevate the list and extract the most out of that group. I would prefer Simpson over Goodwin to replace Nicks.
 
Some clubs have more than just a premiership capable list. They have elite foundations to set up a period of sustained success.

I don't believe for a second that Geelong would be as successful in finals (and good enough to win that 2022 flag) without Chris Scott as a coach. They clearly had a premiership capable list, but it needed an elite coach to deliver the flag.

Goodwin (and Beveridge) do not strike me as that sort of coach

It's hard to say. Goodwin was good enough to get Melbourne into three consecutive top 4 finishes which is a very strong indicator the side is good enough to win a premiership.

I think he's a bit one dimensional and rigid which is why he hasn't been able to back up the flag. He's able to build a side that easily beats worse teams but lacks the edge to consistently perform well against good sides. Almost like a luckier version of Ken Hinkley with a better list.

In contrast Adam Simpson is another single premiership coach that to me was able to elevate the list and extract the most out of that group. I would prefer Simpson over Goodwin to replace Nicks.

Am I following this correctly?

Geelong making four consecutive top four positions with a premiership demonstrates that they wouldn't have won one without Scott who is a great coach.

Melbourne making three consecutive top four positions with a premiership demonstrates they had a 'can't miss' list and carried the coach?
 
Dwayne polling well there.

It's funny, he's one of the most hated commentators on BF yet he's well-regared outside of the forum. Make of that you will.
Maybe he's less annoying to the casual viewer? If you heard him once or twice a year he probably sounds quite good, as a play by play he's actually very good and knowledgeable. It's just once you hear him for the 10th time you realise that every single call of his is the same with the exact same cliches. He's like a demo version of Dennis Commetti that no one ever paid to unlock the rest of.
 
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Opinion Non-Crows AFL 11

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