Opinion Non-Crows AFL 6: This Is Getting Cruel

[GROTTO]

ABC journo has emails that were sent to/from the club apparently.

FMD, its unbelievable.

If its in emails, game over.

 

[GROTTO]

If that is the case, it is a pretty big hole in the report.

Procedural fairness 101 is allowing a person the opportunity to respond to allegations that have been made against them.

100% agree with this.

Surely Clarko deserves the right to offer his response here?

 

[GROTTO]

I think the real question here is how Ken Hinkley and his management will use this situation into a contract extension....

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Bringing levity to this day, is sometimes what is required.

Kinda feel sad reading everything that has taken place over the last 12-24 hours.

 

[GROTTO]

Honest question what would you do if you were North?

You've just landed the highest profile coach in the game and now this happens, would you get rid of Clarkson or just ride the storm and stick by Clarkson even if he gets suspended for a year or two?

I think they need to stand by him and wait for all of this to pan out.

Obviously an interim coach is needed.

 

[Scorpus]

 

[Scorpus]

100% agree with this.

Surely Clarko deserves the right to offer his response here?

The ABC report says they asked him for a comment, but apparently it was Hawthorn that didn't ask him in their review?

So was this a case of the review being inaccurate and missing facts, or maybe trying to sweep something under the rug by the club?

 

[GROTTO]

I think if he gets suspended you sack him and get another coach

If the investigation clears him it would put up a lot of question marks

100% correct.

If he is suspended, it should be an automatic sacking. I think the AFL should also remove his AFL coaching accreditation from him, thereby ruling out other Clubs namely Essendon swooping in.

 

[Ramify]

Hmmm, like we all suspected. Two sides to the story lol.

Pretty crappy report and journalism if this is indeed the case.

 

[Geoffa32]

So Caro buried the story.

Spoke with Rioli and was told some aspects of this. Had it denied by someone else and left it.

I wonder which party denied it? AFL threaten to take her accreditation away if she did investigate more?


As Scorpus said took an outsider to the Industry to break this. AFL media gutless

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[GROTTO]

Hmmm, like we all suspected. Two sides to the story lol.

Pretty crappy report and journalism if this is indeed the case.

Three sides to every story, theirs, yours and in somewhere inbetween lays the truth.

 

[GROTTO]

So Caro buried the story.

Spoke with Rioli and was told some aspects of this. Had it denied by someone else and left it.

I wonder which party denied it? AFL threaten to take her access away if she did investigate more?


As Scorpus said took an outsider to the Industry to break this. AFL media gutless

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I did hear on Footy Classified, probably going back months now about the whole Kennett and Rioli issues which was interesting. (in a sad way).

 

[Scorpus]

Hmmm, like we all suspected. Two sides to the story lol.

Pretty crappy report and journalism if this is indeed the case.

What was wrong with the journalism? The report says they asked Clarkson for comment and he didn't respond

 

[DJ75]

As much as North have been collateral damage in this, it may actually end up saving them in the long run.

I would not be surprised if Hawthorn end up vacating a licence for a Tasmanian team out of this and the Hawks brand being absorbed somewhere.

 

[Ramify]

So Caro buried the story.

Spoke with Rioli and was told some aspects of this. Had it denied by someone else and left it.

I wonder which party denied it? AFL threaten to take her access away if she did investigate more?


As Scorpus said took an outsider to the Industry to break this. AFL media gutless

On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Or it could be as simple as the ABC not doing due diligence. Wouldn't be a first.

 

[pjcrows]

It's okay guys - the AFL Integrity Unit have started an investigation. They will surely get to the bottom of it.

 

[BRL121]

Hmmm, like we all suspected. Two sides to the story lol.

Pretty crappy report and journalism if this is indeed the case.

I think only one or two suspected this: most were groupthinkers.
The merciless vilification of HippyHippy here was unjustified since he was simply and politely pointing out the same thing.

We should all wait for the results of a fair and proper investigation before sharpening the axe.

 

[Ramify]

What was wrong with the journalism? The report says they asked Clarkson for comment and he didn't respond

Assuming what Clarkson claims is true, then cherry picking an excerpt from a seemingly unfinished report without releasing relevant details.
I'd consider that crappy journalism.

 

[arrowman]

If that is the case, it is a pretty big hole in the report.

Procedural fairness 101 is allowing a person the opportunity to respond to allegations that have been made against them.

I agree. However, to some extent it depends on exactly what was in the report. As Jenny says:

You need to understand, the hawthorn review did not contain specifics. Gil said today that they learned more today from the ABC article which did contain specifics.

Which would mean that - to some extent anyway - the specific allegations made to the journalist about Clarkson, Fagan and the other bloke were not in the report / were not made to the investigators / authors of the report.

- That said, it seems odd that such an investigation would not speak to the coaches at all, which apparently is what Clarkson and Fagan are saying. Either that, or they were spoken to but not about these specific allegations (which were not made to the investigators at the time).

- And what were these supposedly damning findings in the report, if not the specifics that the ABC journalist reported on?

 

[footy4ever]

Somehow this doesn’t sound like a beat up. Fagan and Clarkson saying they weren’t spoken to doesn’t change what happened.

At best their input would refute the allegations and I don’t see that happening considering neither said “this did not happen” or “this has been taken out of context”. More likely there is some context that needs to be taken into account and their input might provide that, but how much it will soften the blow will only be revealed when we get their version of events. - captain obvious, yes.

This, “I wasn’t spoken to” line means SFA if they intend starting to build a defense based on that.

I wait with interest to see what they actually have to say about alleged particular events.

 

[Ramify]

I think only one or two suspected this: most were groupthinkers.
The merciless vilification of HippyHippy here was unjustified since he was simply and politely pointing out the same thing.

We should all wait for the results of a fair and proper investigation before sharpening the axe.

Nah Hippy hippy was taking the evidence on face value and then trying to twist it to look like intimidating someone into aborting their unborn was somehow a form of care. What he/she followed up with was blatant backtracking.

 

[Scorpus]

Assuming what Clarkson claims is true, then cherry picking an excerpt from a seemingly unfinished report without releasing relevant details.
I'd consider that crappy journalism.

What relevant details weren't released?

It doesn't seem at all like the reporting was based on cherry picking an unfinished report. Did you read the article? They've got direct quotes from players and claim to have spoken to multiple sources directly

Are you suggesting these quotes are lies?

Now that Clarkson is refuting it it's pretty simple. Either the multiple players and family members quoted in the article are lying, or Clarkson is lying. This will get ugly

 

[Mutineer]

Can't wait for AFL 360 tonight with Mr. Prim & Proper Whately and half tanked Robbo..

 

[Scorpus]

I agree. However, to some extent it depends on exactly what was in the report. As Jenny says:

Which would mean that - to some extent anyway - the specific allegations made to the journalist about Clarkson, Fagan and the other bloke were not in the report / were not made to the investigators / authors of the report.

- That said, it seems odd that such an investigation would not speak to the coaches at all, which apparently is what Clarkson and Fagan are saying. Either that, or they were spoken to but not about these specific allegations (which were not made to the investigators at the time).

- And what were these supposedly damning findings in the report, if not the specifics that the ABC journalist reported on?

Surely even if the report didn't contain allegations against the coaches, the investigators would still ask for their input given their significance at the club during that time

Seems highly suspicious

 

[Ramify]

What relevant details weren't released?

It doesn't seem at all like the reporting was based on cherry picking an unfinished report. Did you read the article? They've got direct quotes from players and claim to have spoken to multiple sources directly

Are you suggesting these quotes are lies?

I'm not suggesting either party are lying, but due diligence would include a paragraph pertaining to the fact(assumed)that at the time of print, neither Clarkson nor Fagan had been approached by the investigators to give their version of events.
Sheds a completely different light on things and gives a more accurate context.

 

[tinman]

Clarko will coach North in 2023.

Unless he admits to anything, its effectively one person's word against another.

For findings of misconduct the burden of proof would be based on the balance of probabilities. If something was more likely to have happened than not. This is not a criminal prosecution. Unless you believe that all of the allegations, and having numerous similar incidents recalled by different people, some witnessed, are false then it is much more than “one person’s word against another”.
There’s also potentially medical evidence, the visits to houses, and other facts like changes of address that would support some of the allegations being made.