Opinion Non-Crows AFL 6: This Is Getting Cruel

[Scorpus]

I'm not suggesting either party are lying, but due diligence would include a paragraph pertaining to the fact(assumed)that at the time of print, neither Clarkson nor Fagan had been approached by the investigators to give their version of events.
Sheds a completely different light on things and gives a more accurate context.

Does it though? It could suggest Hawthorn didn't conduct the report/investigation in good faith which doesn't change anything about the story, if anything it makes it worse

 

[GROTTO]

Somehow this doesn’t sound like a beat up. Fagan and Clarkson saying they weren’t spoken to doesn’t change what happened.

At best their input would refute the allegations and I don’t see that happening considering neither said “this did not happen” or “this has been taken out of context”. More likely there is some context that needs to be taken into account and their input might provide that, but how much it will soften the blow will only be revealed when we get their version of events. - captain obvious, yes.

This, “I wasn’t spoken to” line means SFA if they intend starting to build a defense based on that.

I wait with interest to see what they actually have to say about alleged particular events.

Of course they both will deny and will get top silk representation legally to guide them every step of the way.

We are talking about reputations, legacy and multi million dollar contracts at stake here. Not just them, their families, the Clubs they represent etc etc.

 

[Iron]

if this was happening to indigenous players, you can bet your bottom dollar it was happening to the white guys too

feel like this is just the tip of the iceberg

I dont think this is the right take.

There's plenty of evidence that this is the sort of way racism manifests. Older white guy knows best. Forget the complicated home life (because i don't want to touch that with a 10 foot pole) and come join our culture.

The context is completely different for white kids, even if conversations might sound similar

 

[Crow_68]

Fair to say that either AFL or Journalistic careers will be ended…the only guaranteed winners being the lawyers who will make a small fortune.

Let’s just hope the affected players are not dragged through a legal process.

 

[arrowman]

Assuming what Clarkson claims is true, then cherry picking an excerpt from a seemingly unfinished report without releasing relevant details.
I'd consider that crappy journalism.

But was he cherry picking from an unfinished report? Were the allegations made by the players to the journalist included in the report? Apparently, according to Jenny, the ABC report included specifics that weren't in the Hawthorn report. Wasn't the journalist simply reporting on specific allegations made to him by 3 players (presumably prompted by the report, yes), not "cherry picking" from the actual report?

It's quite legitimate for Clarkson to say that he wasn't interviewed (as part of the Hawthorn investigation), it's also legitimate for the journalist to run the story, and for Clarkson to decline to comment when - presumably - these allegations were put to him out of the blue. Clarkson would quite rightly hold his response for the AFL investigation, not conduct it through the media.

 

[Ramify]

Does it though? It could suggest Hawthorn didn't conduct the report/investigation in good faith which doesn't change anything about the story, if anything it makes it worse

Yes, because people are allowed to run with one parties version of events, connotation, innuendo inference and not much more.
See Feenix67s comments for an example,where he/she considers a witness statement as "findings". A simple paragraph explaining the relevant particulars of the investigation and I'm sure Feenix67 doesn't jump to this same conclusion. No rational person would.

 

[arrowman]

due diligence would include a paragraph pertaining to the fact(assumed)that at the time of print, neither Clarkson nor Fagan had been approached by the investigators to give their version of events.

Except maybe the journalist did not know that. Maybe all they knew was report includes bad stuff, specific bad stuff reported by players direct to journos, no comment from Clarkson and Fagan when it was put to them. Later (now) Clarkson and Fagan have said they were not spoken to by the investigators. Which in itself seems very strange, as Scorpus said in quoting my post above.

 

[GameofSloanes]

A club could invade Poland and the AFL Integrity Unit would still give it the tick of approval.

*A vic club

 

[Ramify]

But was he cherry picking from an unfinished report? Were the allegations made by the players to the journalist included in the report? Apparently, according to Jenny, the ABC report included specifics that weren't in the Hawthorn report. Wasn't the journalist simply reporting on specific allegations made to him by 3 players (presumably prompted by the report, yes), not "cherry picking" from the actual report?

It's quite legitimate for Clarkson to say that he wasn't interviewed (as part of the Hawthorn investigation), it's also legitimate for the journalist to run the story, and for Clarkson to decline to comment when - presumably - these allegations were put to him out of the blue. Clarkson would quite rightly hold his response for the AFL investigation, not conduct it through the media.

Yes this could be the case, in which case I'd consider it even worse.
Basically passing off hearsay from an interview as being the cornerstone evidence or a report where Hawthorne will alledge etc.

 

[Sanders]

They aren't allegations. They are findings of an investigation.

It’s not an investigation, it’s more of a survey of indigenous people involved over that time. A fact finding exercise

There was no attempt, and wasn’t intended for there to be, any effort to delve into allegations

It was more a listening exercise.

NOW there will be an investigation into what was claimed

 

[Ramify]

Except maybe the journalist did not know that. Maybe all they knew was report includes bad stuff, specific bad stuff reported by players direct to journos, no comment from Clarkson and Fagan when it was put to them. Later (now) Clarkson and Fagan have said they were to spoken to by the investigators. Which in itself seems very strange, as Scorpus said in quoting my post above.

Maybe. I've read it 3 times now and I can't remember this information being represented in any other light than it being a most damning part of the report.

That may just be me going into the article assuming too much I admit.

 

[Jetsteam]

I think it arises from Caroline Wilson's reporting on Cyril Rioli

I think you are correct. Why would Hawthorn commission a Review to look at how First Nations players were treated at the club.
Someone suspected where there is smoke there may be fire. I truly hope there is e-mail or some sort of real evidence. Because it could become a he said...no I didn't etc . All it takes is Clarkson , Fagan and Burt to refute the allegations, which 2 have already done. Hope there are witnesses , but these clowns Talk the Talk but do not Walk the Walk.
A truly sad day for all Australians , utterly disgusting .

 

[GameofSloanes]

On the train and there's a bloke in full hawks gear. Hat and jumper
Can't be a coincidence to do it today. What a great day it must be for him, so proud of his club

 

[GameofSloanes]

Assuming what Clarkson claims is true, then cherry picking an excerpt from a seemingly unfinished report without releasing relevant details.
I'd consider that crappy journalism.

The article would appear to be more not less detailed than the report. Actual quotes from people involved. Attempted to get a responses from the coaches. States that there is email evidence of the allegations

 

[Ramify]

The article would appear to be more not less detailed than the report. Actual quotes from people involved. Attempted to get a responses from the coaches. States that there is email evidence of the allegations

Until we see the full report I'm not sure we can come to that conclusion.

Emails containing allegations are still just allegations. If the emails reveal more substance pertaining to the guilt of the accused, then why not publish them now?

The attempt by the ABC to garner comment is really a big nothing for mine. SOP.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Can't wait for AFL 360 tonight with Mr. Prim & Proper Whately and half tanked Robbo..

These two absolute arsehats dont even deserve to breathe the oxygen they waste..

These two clowns have led the charge against Izak Rankine in the last few weeks..

-“Izak is being given poor advice”
-“Izak Rankine isnt worth that”
-“Izak Rankine isnt gonna handle the pressure of Adelaide”
-“Izak Rankine could end up getting messed up with his family issues”
-“Izaks friends could be a real bad influence on him”
-“Izak Rankine is making a mistake here”

Do these comments sound familiar especially given what we’ve heard today?

All shit we have heard from these two flogs and a couple of others in the AFL media since Izak requested a trade home..

and it goes to how they view this young indigenous footballer..

clearly with these comments they see Izak as a person who hasnt the intellegence and life skills to make a decision like this for himself.. as a person that is easily led by other both family and friends.. as a person that is too weak to handle pressure..

All with absolutely no evidence to back their views on Izak.

Two absolute low lifes.

And why is it that they have taken this stance to Izak asking for a trade home yet the other 15 players that have also requested a trade they havent said one bad word about?.. havent questioned their motives at all..

What sets Izak Rankine apart from all these other lads like tarranto, jackson, hopper, logue, Dunkley etc..??

Why are they singling out Izak and questioning him and his motives and none of the others?

Am I reading too much into it?.. just seems strange that Izak cops this shit from them yet the other lads havent..

 

[BRL121]

It’s not an investigation, it’s more of a survey of indigenous people involved over that time. A fact finding exercise

There was no attempt, and wasn’t intended for there to be, any effort to delve into allegations

It was more a listening exercise.

NOW there will be an investigation into what was claimed

Indeed. What will be fascinating from now on is whether the three complainants expect that they will be able to have all the coaches sacked while still maintaining their anonymity.
I'm afraid that won't be possible in the context of a fair investigation with the right of response. It will be fun times.

 

[Big Crow]

These two absolute arsehats dont even deserve to breathe the oxygen they waste..

These two clowns have led the charge against Izak Rankine in the last few weeks..

-“Izak is being given poor advice”
-“Izak Rankine isnt worth that”
-“Izak Rankine isnt gonna handle the pressure of Adelaide”
-“Izak Rankine could end up getting messed up with his family issues”
-“Izaks friends could be a real bad influence on him”
-“Izak Rankine is making a mistake here”

Do these comments sound familiar especially given what we’ve heard today?

All s**t we have heard from these two flogs and a couple of others in the AFL media since Izak requested a trade home..

and it goes to how they view this young indigenous footballer..

clearly with these comments they see Izak as a person who hasnt the intellegence and life skills to make a decision like this for himself.. as a person that is easily led by other both family and friends.. as a person that is too weak to handle pressure..

All with absolutely no evidence to back their views on Izak.

Two absolute low lifes.

And why is it that they have taken this stance to Izak asking for a trade home yet the other 15 players that have also requested a trade they havent said one bad word about?.. havent questioned their motives at all..

What sets Izak Rankine apart from all these other lads like tarranto, jackson, hopper, logue, Dunkley etc..??

Why are they singling out Izak and questioning him and his motives and none of the others?

Am I reading too much into it?.. just seems strange that Izak cops this s**t from them yet the other lads havent..

Sounds like they’re reading from the same script.

 

[Miss Vanessa]

Of course they both will deny and will get top silk representation legally to guide them every step of the way.

We are talking about reputations, legacy and multi million dollar contracts at stake here. Not just them, their families, the Clubs they represent etc etc.

I certainly hope they get top representation. They are either not guilty of said allegations in which case they deserve the best defence possible given most people have already thrown them under the bus… or the allegations are found to be true, in which case we can be assured of their guilt given they had the best defence possible.

I don’t think anyone should be upset if they fight these allegations tooth and nail. It’s how we get to the truth of the matter.

 

[arrowman]

Maybe. I've read it 3 times now and I can't remember this information being represented in any other light than it being a most damning part of the report.

That may just be me going into the article assuming too much I admit.

Yes, I'd want to read it again. I don't recall it as you do, but I wasn't looking for that.

 

[Sanders]

View attachment 1514204

This is the knife that will do for them.

That history…

 

[Sanders]

Yeah, but the story has:

"Far from sharing his joy, Ian alleges that a group of coaches, including Alastair Clarkson and Chris Fagan, ushered him into an office, where he was urged to have the pregnancy terminated, "get rid" of his partner and move into the home of an assistant coach."

So that would suggest he was very much complicit if not an instigator. Just awful all round.

The whole story revolves around a single word, a word that will no doubt be denied and which everything hinges on.

The word is coerce.

 

[Crow till I die]

AFL Commissioner takes leave of absence given previous Hawthorn presidency

The league has released a statement.

www.sen.com.au

Fingers crossed Silvers is not implicated or we could be losing him for a while at the least

 

[adelaidecrows]

Wow, I’ve just read the whole article. Absolutely speechless. What a pack of ******* arseholes. Originally I felt a bit of sadness for Clarkson for what this will do to his legacy and life, but no more. These aren’t mistakes, these are decisions which backs up his values and they were ******* horrible cruel decisions which *ed with peoples lives.

Now *******s like hippy might try to justify it, but forget about doing this to other human beings, it would never have happened to a white recruit, it’s abhorrently racist.

I’m sure Clarkson commented at the time about Tex which if my memory is correct makes him a huge hypocrite as well.

He and anyone involved should never be heard from publicly again except to apologise and fall on their sword and never be allowed to have anything to do with football or young sportspeople.

******* w***ers.

Often perpetrators believe they are doing it for just reason. To Clarkson, he may have been thinking he is trying to help with careers. So to him he probably thinks he did nothing wrong.

 

[adelaidecrows]

AFL Commissioner takes leave of absence given previous Hawthorn presidency

The league has released a statement.

www.sen.com.au

Fingers crossed Silvers is not implicated or we could be losing him for a while at the least

Well if he was, I wouldn't want him anywhere near our club.