Opinion Non-Crows AFL 6: This Is Getting Cruel

[Geoffa32]

I think it honestly would be if given the same circumstances. We know that one ex-Hawk is estranged from his own family due to the influence of his partner. I would expect any person who has influence to provide this kind of advice to someone they care about if given the opportunity. Whether it's a toxic family member or friends, players would routinely be advised that their football is being impacted and that puts their careers at risk. I'm not saying this is the case, but there's a chance that a routine discussion has been recalled out of context and more severe than actually occurred. If you have only the toxic element and their victim recounting the story, it's going to be a little subjective.

Of course this being about race could be correct and Hawthorn may actually have kidnapped these 2 players. The full investigation will determine what crimes have been committed.

And if this kind of scenario is true, Clarko and Fagan should have deferred it to the Player Welfare Officer.

Not made any such suggestion themselves.


To protect themselves more than anything.





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[Anzacpaul]

Amongst all the news today we missed the big one.....FOG!!

I reckon Murray would've been a better choice.

Though not sure on how they're selected?

 

[Peter Doherty]

I reckon Murray would've been a better choice.

Though not sure on how they're selected?

Haven't looked into it but wouldn't be surprised if they are all with the same management group.

 

[1970crow]

That's not what I'm demanding. I'm pointing out an issue with the way some people want the story to play out

We have a detailed account of one side of the story. People read that and some people demand to see the other side of the story. Turns out that side of the story won't be revealed.

So what these people are asking for is either a) wait an infinite amount of time to read the "both sides" that will never come or b) it should have been conducted solely through an opaque investigation with no or limited information

I can't advocate for either of those positions, especially with the AFL. There is nothing wrong with the transparent way this is being reported on. This is what reporting SHOULD be.

If there is a legitimate defense I expect that to be reported on transparently as well. So far that defense has been requested and not provided.

I have no problem with the reporting either. The report is a result of an investigation and if those parties are happy for their side to be reported on, then all good. I just draw the distinction between a proper investigation that included information from everyone involved and one where only the aggrieved recollections are considered. If that ends up being the full picture then the preps can be dealt with. But if there's a bit more than just demanding an abortion, stealing a sim card and forced relocation, then that will come out in the full investigation.

At all times the victim's interests need to come first because even if it wasn't as cut and dried as has been reported, that is still the feelings that they carried with them. So I expect we'll only ever get confirmation that the current report was accurate or that the employees in question acted within scope and had the best intentions for the player's welfare. And I don't think the AFL is in a position here to run a sham investigation, the result of it will be genuine IMO.

 

[FullyBigKPro]

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

And I quote: “Surely he didn’t mean that literally.”

And yes, that story is full of mayo at the very least.

This is the same Eddie Betts who stated as unequivocal fact that he was dumped from the leadership group for speaking out against the club. A statement of fact he cannot know.

So yes, I am saying he is no stranger to embellishment to make a point

Eddie said in that interview he had his newborn in his arms and his twins swimming with him. The twins are 4 years old. It’s against public pool guidelines for 1 parent to supervise 3 kids under the age of 4 on their own.

Mayo.

 

[cleanhands]

I reckon Murray would've been a better choice.

Though not sure on how they're selected?

And none would get within 10 metres of Noel Pettingill


one for the oldtimers

 

[1970crow]

Nope, no welfare officer involved. I suggest you go and actually read the article, instead of just firing off hypotheticals to protect your preconceptions.

I’ve read the article but I don’t recall reading where it’s stated that the welfare officer or any other support person wasn’t engaged with the payer at various times.

 

[jenny61_99]

Eddie said in that interview he had his newborn in his arms and his twins swimming with him. The twins are 4 years old. It’s against public pool guidelines for 1 parent to supervise 3 kids under the age of 4 on their own.

Mayo.View attachment 1515101

Had the lifeguard said “I’m sorry sir, pool regulations insist you have more adults supervising your children” rather than - the old (white) couple have said you being in the pool is making their grand child nervous” you might have a point. Mayo indeed.

 

[1970crow]

Not at all, but at this stage of proceedings, you hypotheticals rank last in terms of credible possibilities.

That they would just up and make those demands out of sheer nothingness is about the least likely way that these messages were delivered.

 

[GROTTO]

There will be due process. The issue is there is evidence (many players saying the same thing who don't know each other is evidence) and its not just one player. Also its not just Clarkson and Fagan. There are other assistant coaches involved not to mention the extended families who will tell their side of the story.

At present with the shock of the AFL community there is a lot of white noise. There is a lot of support on both sides drowning out the process right now. The true story will come out in the next few weeks.

Timing for Franklin sucks right now.

Has there really been due process though? So far everyone is throwing Fagan and Clarko under the bus.

In regards to how many players, can you or anyone else tell me, is it different stories or is it a same story? Ie Indigenous players told to leave their partners etc and or have an abortion. I mean Burgers has come out and said he never knew or heard anything and Hodge has said the same.

Agree about the white noise part.

Im sure Buddy will make a comment in due time.

 

[1970crow]

"Leave her. Today. I'll come round and pick you up. Change your phone number, ghost her."

That's where the line is crossed.

“That’s shit mate, real tough one. Happened to a mate of mine and they worked it out. But ultimately it’s up to you, but if it was me, I’d be out of there.” 10 years later that becomes, “he told me to leave my GF”.

 

[Iron]

I’m finding it hard to gather my thoughts on this all.
When i read it, it churned my gut, I empathised and felt quite emotional, and then I immediately thought ‘see ya Clarko and fagan’

But I’m also kind of uncomfortable that these guys are now guilty before given any chance at reply. Like others have said, there’s always two sides to the story.

We as a public (fed by the media) absolutely love a witch-hunt. And this one is like picking apples. We have been given an atomic story that covers everything from racism to sexism to abuse of power to abortion.

We are now in a society where social media is the judiciary, and positions can be ‘untenable’ based on pure speculation and everyone from joe blow to Caroline Wilson, falls over each other to rush to get their righteous opinions into print, ‘for the ‘gram’

I’m not sure that sits all that well with me.

People react to the information available to them. Publicly now, with the internet in everyone's hands. It isn't a coincidence that news is fed to us all in the way it is. Outrage is good money

 

[GROTTO]

You realise that offering an employee specific medical advice is essentially illegal right? Unless you're a doctor of course.

In the modern workplace, there is not one scenario where saying to an employee "abortion is an option" is appropriate.

Correct.

Even doctors wouldnt generally.

Even Kane McGoodwin would know very well given his experience, that in a hospital setting with workplace colleagues even here a doctor would not offer medical advice and would defer it to another.

 

[Jars458]

I'm not. I'm saying that IF they have provided similar advice to non-indigenous players then the advice to these guys isn't motivated by race. Advice regarding toxic life elements isn't ordinarily based upon racist ideals. You do understand this I hope.

maybe not consciously

 

[Brett Cummings]

idk how clarkson or fargan can coach again unless they can prove the allegations didn't occur. There will be too much toxicity surrounding the clubs.

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

Had the lifeguard said “I’m sorry sir, pool regulations insist you have more adults supervising your children” rather than - the old (white) couple have said you being in the pool is making their grand child nervous” you might have a point. Mayo indeed.

Yeah. That’s the mayo.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Correct.

Even doctors wouldnt generally.

Even Kane McGoodwin would know very well given his experience, that in a hospital setting with workplace colleagues even here a doctor would not offer medical advice and would defer it to another.

Depends on the advice.... but most I work with would refer to a specialist. Eg. When I had shingles my Clinical Director at the time referred me to the Director of infectious Diseases.

Certainly inappropriate for an AFL coach to provide advice on aborting a baby... even worse when both parents are excited about the impending birth.

If there is any element of truth to this, which is looking probable given more than 1 similar incident with different players... his AFL career should be over again before it's restarted.

It's all rather sad...

 

[adelaidecrows]

Has there really been due process though? So far everyone is throwing Fagan and Clarko under the bus.

In regards to how many players, can you or anyone else tell me, is it different stories or is it a same story? Ie Indigenous players told to leave their partners etc and or have an abortion. I mean Burgers has come out and said he never knew or heard anything and Hodge has said the same.

Agree about the white noise part.

Im sure Buddy will make a comment in due time.

I don't know if the journalist attempted to contact Clarkson or not but he confirmed he tried via email and phone to contact Fagan.

Ask yourself this question though. If you were part of the story, what would your strategy be? Never underestimate lawyers. The first thing I would have done if an investigative journalist contacted me was run to a lawyer to get advice. Deny everything and ignore any contact attempts. Makes it appear the investigation process was one sided with an agenda. I would bet any money both knew not only that a journalist was trying to contact them, but what the story was about ahead of time. This doesn't mean they are guilty but it drums up enough white noise of support to muddy the waters, rather than if they knew ahead of time and are quoted.

 

[GROTTO]

Depends on the advice.... but most I work with would refer to a specialist. Eg. When I had shingles my Clinical Director at the time referred me to the Director of infectious Diseases.

Certainly inappropriate for an AFL coach to provide advice on aborting a baby... even worse when both parents are excited about the impending birth.

If there is any element of truth to this, which is looking probable given more than 1 similar incident with different players... his AFL career should be over again before it's restarted.

It's all rather sad...

I 100% agree.

The issue though, is they are both going to deny this. So how do you decide who is telling the truth and who isnt? Assuming no evidence.

Someone is either lying, telling the truth or misinterpreted/not properly processed the information that was presented to them.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Depends on the advice.... but most I work with would refer to a specialist. Eg. When I had shingles my Clinical Director at the time referred me to the Director of infectious Diseases.

Certainly inappropriate for an AFL coach to provide advice on aborting a baby... even worse when both parents are excited about the impending birth.

If there is any element of truth to this, which is looking probable given more than 1 similar incident with different players... his AFL career should be over again before it's restarted.

It's all rather sad...

Its incredibly sad.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I 100% agree.

The issue though, is they are both going to deny this. So how do you decide who is telling the truth and who isnt? Assuming no evidence.

Someone is either lying, telling the truth or misinterpreted/not properly processed the information that was presented to them.

I don't think it will be difficult to gather evidence to proove/disproove the main allegations.

Emails.
Mobile phone records.
Health records.

When 3 separate witnesses & their partners have come forward with similar stories, that seems like more than a coincidence...

 

[1970crow]

You realise that offering an employee specific medical advice is essentially illegal right? Unless you're a doctor of course.

In the modern workplace, there is not one scenario where saying to an employee "abortion is an option" is appropriate.

geez, clutching at straws now. Telling a player that abortion is an alternative to being a parent is not providing medical advice. And the other sentence is laughable. It would very much depend on the relationship and the context of the discussion.

 

[adelaidecrows]

I 100% agree.

The issue though, is they are both going to deny this. So how do you decide who is telling the truth and who isnt? Assuming no evidence.

Someone is either lying, telling the truth or misinterpreted/not properly processed the information that was presented to them.

Its not looking good. I can not see how Fagan and Clarkson get out from under this. Legally they are fine, but in AFL terms, it will be almost impossible. Unless their is a smoking gun that proves they were railroaded.

 

[adelaidecrows]

I don't think it will be difficult to gather evidence to proove/disproove the main allegations.

Emails.
Mobile phone records.
Health records.

When 3 separate witnesses & their partners have come forward with similar stories, that seems like more than a coincidence...

I bet their managers knew.