Oppo Camp Non-Eagles Discussion

[Chief]

Continued in Part 2:

Oppo Camp - Non-Eagles Discussion

Who gives a **** about finals anyway So overrated It’s all about the draft these days

www.bigfooty.com

 

[bzparkes]

The drafting of XON was a mistake on multiple levels though.

1. We took him roughly 20 picks higher than where he was projected and should have gone.

2. We reached for him in large part because he finished first in the foot skills test at the combine(I think he scored 27/30 from memory). This was back when we were still obsessed with taking 150 uncontested marks a game, a game style that is now defuct.

Hindsight's a wonderful thing.

 

[CountryLad]

Hindsight's a wonderful thing.

Yeah like one of our posters claiming he could fill a premiership side with players we missed by going back through previous drafts. Hindsight hey

 

[Chump Change]

The drafting of XON was a mistake on multiple levels though.

1. We took him roughly 20 picks higher than where he was projected and should have gone.

2. We reached for him in large part because he finished first in the foot skills test at the combine(I think he scored 27/30 from memory). This was back when we were still obsessed with taking 150 uncontested marks a game, a game style that is now defuct.

Here's Xavs at 28 and the rest of the draft to #78.

McInerny (Swans), Curtis Taylor, Koschitzke, Schulz, Idun

That's 5 decent players in 50 picks for the rest of the draft.

The truth is we had pick 28 in a draft that dropped off a cliff after the 1st round.

Xavier O'Neill

Will Kelly

Will Hamill

Luke Foley

Luke Valente

James Jordon

Kieren Briggs

Bailey Williams

Tom Berry

Laitham Vandermeer

Irving Mosquito

Jarrod Cameron

Tom Joyce

Jack Bytel

Connor McFadyen

Jack Ross

Justin McInerney

Ben Cavarra

Curtis Taylor

Matthew Parker

Ben Jarvis

Bailey Scott

Jacob Kennerley

Zac Foot

Jacob Koschitzke

Aaron Nietschke

Nick Hind

Noah Answerth

Marty Hore

Lachie Schultz

Fraser Turner

Brett Bewley

Noah Gown

Connor Idun

Luke English

Mathew Walker

Lachlan Sholl

Darcy Fort

Finbar O'Dwyer

Robbie Young

Jake Tarca

Joel Crocker

Ben Silvagni

Caleb Graham

Brayden Ham

Riley Grundy

Oscar Brownless

Toby Bedford

Boyd Woodcock

Atu Bosenavulagi

Will Hayes

 

[SumaGodCoach]

Guys, this isn't captain hindsight talking. My first reaction on draft night was that reaching for XON was a mistake and that if we really wanted him we could have got him with a lower pick. My second reaction was to have a bit of a giggle to myself, knowing that it was probably the foot skills test that made us pull the trigger so early.

I'm not trying to crap all over every draft bust that we've had, because once you get into the second round and beyond you are flipping coins at best. However, we should at least question the methodology and mindset behind our drafting decisions.

 

[Bigger]

Quibbling over the various shades of mediocrity of late picks is missing the point.

One of the issues facing the club is that you went from Duggan in 2014 to Chesser in 2021 with only 2 other first-round draft picks, with one of those retiring early thanks to concussion and the other being a bit of a bust.

I can't even remember what you gave way exactly for Kelly and what those picks ended up being, but it's the actual lack of first round picks that bites.

Bad luck, okay-ish recruiting and regrettable list management - nothing egregious in and of itself, but together they added up to you effectively going close to a decade with no first tier talent coming in.

 

[bzparkes]

Quibbling over the various shades of mediocrity of late picks is missing the point.

One of the issues facing the club is that you went from Duggan in 2014 to Chesser in 2021 with only 2 other first-round draft picks, with one of those retiring early thanks to concussion and the other being a bit of a bust.

I can't even remember what you gave way exactly for Kelly and what those picks ended up being, but it's the actual lack of first round picks that bites.

Bad luck, okay-ish recruiting and regrettable list management - nothing egregious in and of itself, but together they added up to you effectively going close to a decade with no first tier talent coming in.

The picks we gave up for Kelly ended up as Cooper Stevens, Ben Sharp and some other dud and whilst there's no guarantee we'd have actually picked any of those players, they're the only thing we can compare the Kelly trade to, so I'm comfortable with missing out on them and having Kelly.

The rest of your post is spot on.

 

[Farang83150]

Off the draft board: Pick 1 2023 Trade value - What would it take?
Could be one of the stupidest post I ever read!

 

[kane249]

Off the draft board: Pick 1 2023 Trade value - What would it take?
Could be one of the stupidest post I ever read!

View attachment 1723444

Staggering that some of the other Pricktorians also defended Ollie Henry pulling up stumps and moving from Melbourne to Geelong for home sickness reasons as being justifiable. It's just over the same distance from Perth to Mandurah for context.

 

[kane249]

Cable has already been inducted as a legend- there’s a case for removing his legend status but retaining him in the Hall of Fame

I’m on the fence on whether that’s the right option though as the victims claims which were accepted by the court are quite horrific

Has been removed from the Hall of Fame completely as well as his Legend status revoked

AFL removes Barry Cable from Hall of Fame, revokes Legend status

Cable will no longer be recognised as an Australian Football Hall of Fame Legend after he was found to have sexually abused a girl during his playing career

www.afl.com.au

Has set an interesting precedent for some of the other people also in there

The new section that "allows for the AFL Commission to remove any person for conduct which brings the AFL, the Hall of Fame inductee, any AFL Club or Australian football into disrepute" is as follows:

5.12 If a Hall of Fame inductee:

a) engages in conduct which the Commission considers does, or which is likely to, bring AFL, the Hall of Fame inductee, any AFL Club or Australian football into disrepute;
b) is charged with an indictable offence;
c) is found guilty of an indictable offence; or
d) is otherwise engaged in conduct which the Commission considers is prejudicial to the interests of AFL,

The Commission may, if resolved by a three-fourths majority of the Commission, do any of the following:

e) suspend the inductee from the Hall of Fame for a nominated period of time; or
f) remove the inductee from the Hall of Fame.

 

[Goroyals22]

Has been removed from the Hall of Fame completely as well as his Legend status revoked

AFL removes Barry Cable from Hall of Fame, revokes Legend status

Cable will no longer be recognised as an Australian Football Hall of Fame Legend after he was found to have sexually abused a girl during his playing career

www.afl.com.au

Has set an interesting precedent for some of the other people also in there

John Nicholls spent time in jail. Is he automatically now disqualified?


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[kane249]

John Nicholls spent time in jail. Is he automatically now disqualified?


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Should, but AFL will turn a blind eye to it

 

[Rowan18]

Quibbling over the various shades of mediocrity of late picks is missing the point.

One of the issues facing the club is that you went from Duggan in 2014 to Chesser in 2021 with only 2 other first-round draft picks, with one of those retiring early thanks to concussion and the other being a bit of a bust.

I can't even remember what you gave way exactly for Kelly and what those picks ended up being, but it's the actual lack of first round picks that bites.

Bad luck, okay-ish recruiting and regrettable list management - nothing egregious in and of itself, but together they added up to you effectively going close to a decade with no first tier talent coming in.

This is a key issue, but our use of second rounders and inability to find Best 22 players is probably as much to blame. Here is what happened to our R1 since 2015.

2015 we traded away for Redden (was a great decision as we got a flag and he won player of the finals for our club that year).

2016 - Venables retired early from concussion

2017 - Brander was a bust

2018 - traded it to GC for a 1 pick Downgrade plus a bunch of second rounds in 2017 (that got us Allen/Ryan/Petrol). Overall win

2019 - Traded for Kelly.

2020 - traded for Kelly.

2021 - Chesser and rebuild began

 

[ziad]

Yeah like one of our posters claiming he could fill a premiership side with players we missed by going back through previous drafts. Hindsight hey

almost a premiership side! I suggest you tote them up

 

[MrWoollie]

Quibbling over the various shades of mediocrity of late picks is missing the point.

One of the issues facing the club is that you went from Duggan in 2014 to Chesser in 2021 with only 2 other first-round draft picks, with one of those retiring early thanks to concussion and the other being a bit of a bust.

I can't even remember what you gave way exactly for Kelly and what those picks ended up being, but it's the actual lack of first round picks that bites.

Bad luck, okay-ish recruiting and regrettable list management - nothing egregious in and of itself, but together they added up to you effectively going close to a decade with no first tier talent coming in.

I agree with you.

There is one other thing that hurt us. The last time we bottomed out was at the same time as the expansion teams were raping the drafts. That's the time you would normally hope to draft 2 or 3 10-15 year A Graders. At least. Think when Port got Butters, Rozee, Duursma etc. in just one draft. 3 top talents. Think Freo getting Brayshaw, Serong, Cerra, Henry etc. in the space of a couple of years.
We couldn't have chosen a worse time to bottom out. I said at the time that this will haunt us in 10 years time. And here we are.

 

[KERRPOW]

Staggering that some of the other Pricktorians also defended Ollie Henry pulling up stumps and moving from Melbourne to Geelong for home sickness reasons as being justifiable. It's just over the same distance from Perth to Mandurah for context.

Man, mandurah is another world

 

[Farang83150]

Yeah like one of our posters claiming he could fill a premiership side with players we missed by going back through previous drafts. Hindsight hey

I imagine every team in the comp could do the same.

 

[Rowan18]

I agree with you.

There is one other thing that hurt us. The last time we bottomed out was at the same time as the expansion teams were raping the drafts. That's the time you would normally hope to draft 2 or 3 10-15 year A Graders. At least. Think when Port got Butters, Rozee, Duursma etc. in just one draft. 3 top talents. Think Freo getting Brayshaw, Serong, Cerra, Henry etc. in the space of a couple of years.
We couldn't have chosen a worse time to bottom out. I said at the time that this will haunt us in 10 years time. And here we are.

I think we managed alright despite that. We finished last in 2010 and drafted Gaff, Darling, Lycett and Gov. We played finals in 2011 and 2012, so dodged those bullets too.

What I take from your point, is if we absolutely nail a draft, then we've probably finished a good chunk of the rebuild.

 

[Avalor]

You forgot to mention the good picks such as Allen and that NN was pick 2 and we haven’t had pick 2 again until last year. In fact we have hardly had a top 10 pick in recent times. Not to mention that other clubs have hits and misses to.

It’s a performance based game and while we are at the bottom of the pile currently over the decades that you originally mentioned we have actually been one of the best clubs in the competition.

It was incorrect comment made with little thought about our recruiting over the decades and what other clubs have done.

To then claim our recruiting has been no good over the decades because we can look back at drafts and fill a premiership team with the players we missed is well….idk

2 top ten picks, I believe, in a decade. Doesn't help the cause much.

 

[ziad]

Hindsight's a wonderful thing.

Consistantly repeated mistakes ove a long period don't require hindsight to correct - they are a systemic failing

 

[Cuzz09]

Chesser, Ginbey, Long and Hewett would be tearing it up at a top side.

They'll all come good in time

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[shooshka]

Here's Xavs at 28 and the rest of the draft to #78.

McInerny (Swans), Curtis Taylor, Koschitzke, Schulz, Idun

That's 5 decent players in 50 picks for the rest of the draft.

The truth is we had pick 28 in a draft that dropped off a cliff after the 1st round.

Xavier O'Neill

Will Kelly

Will Hamill

Luke Foley

Luke Valente

James Jordon

Kieren Briggs

Bailey Williams

Tom Berry

Laitham Vandermeer

Irving Mosquito

Jarrod Cameron

Tom Joyce

Jack Bytel

Connor McFadyen

Jack Ross

Justin McInerney

Ben Cavarra

Curtis Taylor

Matthew Parker

Ben Jarvis

Bailey Scott

Jacob Kennerley

Zac Foot

Jacob Koschitzke

Aaron Nietschke

Nick Hind

Noah Answerth

Marty Hore

Lachie Schultz

Fraser Turner

Brett Bewley

Noah Gown

Connor Idun

Luke English

Mathew Walker

Lachlan Sholl

Darcy Fort

Finbar O'Dwyer

Robbie Young

Jake Tarca

Joel Crocker

Ben Silvagni

Caleb Graham

Brayden Ham

Riley Grundy

Oscar Brownless

Toby Bedford

Boyd Woodcock

Atu Bosenavulagi

Will Hayes

Bobby Hill
James Rowbottom
Tom Sparrow

They were the misses for us in that draft. But we easily could have ended up with McLennan who was rated but ended up a bust.

We traded the McLennan pick to GC for the O’Neill pick (plus something… can’t remember what).


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[Chump Change]

Bobby Hill
James Rowbottom
Tom Sparrow

They were the misses for us in that draft. But we easily could have ended up with McLennan who was rated but ended up a bust.

We traded the McLennan pick to GC for the O’Neill pick (plus something… can’t remember what).


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

West Coast wasted no time in shaking up the draft order on day two, trading away their top selection to earn an extra second-round pick.
The Eagles had been in a position to make the first pick of the day with pick 23 overall after yesterday’s first round.
But the club dealt the pick to Gold Coast, along with their future fifth-round pick, for the Suns’ selections of 27 and 32.


Apparently we "shook it up". Looks like we had 23 but swapped it for 27 and 32. 27 obviously slid to 28 where we pick up O'neill.

I don't begrudge the club for doing that, but it would have brought these guys into play:

Jez McLennan

Bobby Hill

James Rowbottom

Rhylee West

Tom Sparrow

West is FS so doesn't count. The other 3 are okay, better than O'Neil, but not world beaters.

 

[Keys]

West Coast wasted no time in shaking up the draft order on day two, trading away their top selection to earn an extra second-round pick.
The Eagles had been in a position to make the first pick of the day with pick 23 overall after yesterday’s first round.
But the club dealt the pick to Gold Coast, along with their future fifth-round pick, for the Suns’ selections of 27 and 32.


Apparently we "shook it up". Looks like we had 23 but swapped it for 27 and 32. 27 obviously slid to 28 where we pick up O'neill.

I don't begrudge the club for doing that, but it would have brought these guys into play:

Jez McLennan

Bobby Hill

James Rowbottom

Rhylee West

Tom Sparrow

West is FS so doesn't count. The other 3 are okay, better than O'Neil, but not world beaters.

Pick 32 became 35 which we used to draft Bailey Williams who’s justifying that pick now

 

[amazingjoshy]

Chesser, Ginbey, Long and Hewett would be tearing it up at a top side.

They'll all come good in time

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Agree they all have the talent.

The factor missing in all this draft pick discussion is the development piece. It's the most urgent part we need to correct given the current and expected youth coming onto the list in the next few years. Can have as many top picks as we like, if they are coming into the current mess of a club it will be reminiscent of Melbourne magically "missing" with all their high picks a decade or so ago.

 

[THE A5]

What a man!!