Mega Thread Non-Freo AFL Discussion 2023

[s_wd6]

Meh Cerra held up his end of the bargain with honest service for 4 years and finished his contract. We then got fair compensation. If people like that want to move on I hold them no bad will and good luck to em.

Nimrods like Hogan and Lobb the opposite though.

I hated Cerra when he left bc emotions wtv, but in hindsight he did everything right. Fulfilled his contract, drove up his price by having a career best year in his final year with us, and made negotiations easy and ensured adequate compensation by settling for Carlton rather than Melbourne.

 

[royale with cheese]

Voss is an issue but this rot cuts deeper. Both Bolton and Ratten aren't complete mugs and had some semblance of structure and plan that never matured beyond the drafting and early results stage for a reason. It's why I feel Lyon would've gotten early results whilst imploding the entire club in the medium term due to board resistance against him asserting the control he needs to bring everyone to his standard. Hell, it's why Lyon wasn't offered the job immediately in the first place after that initial meeting and interview.

I’m enjoying that their list is rubbish after five years of Brad Lloyd. I lay a lot of the years of wilderness at his feet.

 

[Madas]

And no Cripps most likely

they’re gonna get fustigated

verb (used with object), fus·ti·gat·ed, fus·ti·gat·ing. to cudgel; beat; punish severely. to criticize harshly; castigate: a new satire that fustigates bureaucratic shilly-shallying.

Now can you please try and use “ shilly - shallying “ in a football related sentence preferably on the Carlton topic

 

[theGav56]

First time I’ve looked at Motlop … he can’t kick.

I wouldn't be trading for him. He wouldn't be best 22 for a start, but with the lack of depth in his kicking we can do better.

 

[Stinky Lomax]

Jesse Motlop is 19 years old, there’s plenty of time & room for improvement.

Hes going ok.

 

[Superkoops]

I wouldn't be trading for him. He wouldn't be best 22 for a start, but with the lack of depth in his kicking we can do better.

He’s a handy player but not going to make significant difference to our team. Out of Motlop and Brockman I’d prefer Tyler Brockman. Didn’t Motlop recently re-sign with Carlton, whereas Brockman is OOC.

A couple of additions from the following list:
Brockman, Sharp, Flanders, Dylan Stephens

At reasonable cost like F2, early 3rd (ie like the third attached to North) for Flanders, Stephens (or a swap involving Henry). Henry may well look for new opportunities and provide option for another player on the way back. Another club might view Henry more as a forward who pushes up and we can take then opportunity to bring in a true wingman.

Delisted FA or 4th round pick for Sharp (reportedly not happy with Freo - not sure if true and can’t get a game with GCS anyway)
Third round pick for Brockman would be good additions to our list whilst retaining our early 2023 2nd (around 22) and 2024 1st which for mine is a must.

 

[Scham]

A lot turning on Voss now. What, the years at Brisbane weren't a big enough hint for you that he can't coach?

 

[Dirty_banchez]

I love watching Carlton lose. It's like Viagra for me.

 

[royale with cheese]

I feel sorry for Voss, he was one of my favourite players when I was a kid, coaching at senior level is just not his game.

It goes without saying they’d be much better with Ross at the helm, although I don’t think their list is premiership quality, too much crap at the bottom end

 

[Superkoops]

I love watching Carlton lose. It's like Viagra for me.

I agree but provided we’re one of the teams that knock them off. Regardless of who is coach and their general crapness we still can’t seem to beat them.

Beat them and I will have finally come to terms with having lost to North Melbourne.

 

[chinggis77]

I hated Cerra when he left bc emotions wtv, but in hindsight he did everything right. Fulfilled his contract, drove up his price by having a career best year in his final year with us, and made negotiations easy and ensured adequate compensation by settling for Carlton rather than Melbourne.

We only think it’s adequate compo because we managed to pick someone good (touch wood). Lenny if these trades end up with a draftee who bombs so you lose a good player and end up with a crab. Fair compo would still have been a first plus a second given the lottery of draft picks


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[Madas]

I agree but provided we’re one of the teams that knock them off. Regardless of who is coach and their general crapness we still can’t seem to beat them.

Beat them and I will have finally come to terms with having lost to North Melbourne.

We get them at home Round 17
Going to have to head to Perth for that one
We need Purple Toenails in attendance

 

[Wilksyy]

What was the Motlop beak thing last night?

 

[Alfonz]

What was the Motlop beak thing last night?

I thought it might have been an indigenous type of celebration. Crocodile? Just a pure guess though.

 

[kingswood71]

If we win today, I will be hoping that WC can win tonight.....
Or lose by 100 points.
I shall take pleasure in both.
Its a Win-win really

 

[One_Wing]

One thing I will say about Carlton compared to Freo in terms of list strength. I think Freo's worse players(in the 23) would get a game with Carlton but I don't think Carlton's worse players in their 23 would get a game at Freo.

 

[BStaff17]

It's easy to just blame the coach and no doubt he has to take some responsibility but the club's problems go far deeper than him.

Sack Voss and replace him without cleaning the place out everywhere else and nothing would change imo.

Agree Carlton love nothing more but blaming coaches.

Ratten, Malthouse, Bolton, Teague and now Voss in a 11 year period.

It's always there fault.

They thought sacking Teague was the solution clearly hasn't worked.

 

[BStaff17]

A lot turning on Voss now. What, the years at Brisbane weren't a big enough hint for you that he can't coach?

Great players don't necessarily make great coaches.

Plus he was under Ken Hinkley for 7-8 years and what did Port achieve in that period.

 

[largebus]

Hopefully we get Snapper calling in on 3AW to talk about how they don't play for THE EMBLEM

Right on cue. Snapper is the third caller here

 

[Purpletown]

I'd say that changing the footy department was a significant change. I'd say the attitude to recognise that they were getting it wrong in more areas than just the coach and needed to surround him with a better department was far more than Carlton recognised in their coaching recruitment process.

St. Kilda and Carlton actually highlight the stale culture problem well when you exam their modern histories. St. Kilda were the least successful club in the 20th century and Carlton were the most successful yet in the 21st century and the evolution of the game to its modern intricacies and gamestyle, business and overall club structures, their roles have reversed.

St. Kilda have made multiple grand finals and reaching finals with their peaks and not winning spoons in their troughs. St. Kilda went through a lean patch in the 2010s, saw their solutions weren't working and put their egos aside to hire back the bloke who ditched out on them in order to re-establish their previous successful staff and then subsequently surrounded him with the blokes he chose to help him achieve.

Carlton on the other hand have made the finals 4 times (3 legitimate, 1 because of Essendon drugs scandal) since 2001, all of which failing to make it to the Prelims, and had a long history of just buying players to stay not just relevant but dominant, feeding that insular culture that "they know success". This has dogged them at every turn in the 21st century: They tanked, bought in high draft picks, bought into Judd being able to carry them to premiership success.

Now they've rebuilt in a similar fashion with high end draft picks and backed in their board to have gotten it right. They couldn't put their egos aside and hire the best coach available for the job because they had to do it their way. So they hired the most palatable sounding assistant at the time who also has a legacy as a player. That's culture. That's their earned complacency.

When the game evolved and they were no longer the biggest fish in a smaller pond they failed to drive meaningful change. St. Kilda, whilst f***ing up, have tried. They've tripped over themselves at nearly every turn but they're trying to evolve. Carlton have just expected being a big club will draw the success if the best draft picks and the high end talent are able to be bought and plonked on the park.

Evolutionary complacency due to a cultural "success entitlement" has cost Carlton. One could make the argument that West Coast is the latest victim of this cultural complacency and is now paying the price.

Very interesting take on club culture Kerpow. There are definitely clubs who are too arrogant to have the butal honesty within that will reveal they need a total reboot rather than just a bit of tinkering. Carlton and WC are the poster boys for this warped thinking in 2023.

I 100% agree with your take on the Saints, they might ultimately fail but they are much more proactive than the successful bigger clubs when things are going poorly. Perhaps it's just a strategy that is forced on smaller and less successful clubs in general regardless of it being footy, rugby etc, etc.

Definitely food for thought.

 

[freo84]

The biggest issue with Carlton is their susceptibility to conceded goals on the turn over. They are a stoppage, clearance team that relies on Curnow/McKay marking the hacked kicks forward from the contest. Without that mark the ball just ping pongs straight back with interest. I'd be interested to know what Carltons scores against from turnovers was last night.

They also get most of their goals from a stoppage so if you shut that midfield down then they cannot score. Which is what Collingwood did to them. Brutally effective.

They relinquished the corridor time and time again when they turned the ball over last night and Sydney punished them. If they were playing a better team...it would have been much worse.

Its been touched on here already but Carlton has a very strong spine but the rest of the team isn't that good. So the bottom half of the team holds them back in a big way.

 

[Belnakor]

I feel sorry for Voss, he was one of my favourite players when I was a kid, coaching at senior level is just not his game.

It goes without saying they’d be much better with Ross at the helm, although I don’t think their list is premiership quality, too much crap at the bottom end

Rtb was a master at getting the guys 18-22 playing career best footy.

Guys for us like Suban, Clancee even Crowley. If Rtb was at Carlton he’d get more of out their list and we’d be sitting here like we are with the saints going “gee the bottom of their list isn’t that bad is it?”

 

[Sturty2Hurty]

Right on cue. Snapper is the third caller here

Bombing it high and long eh? I wonder why that is

 

[vidwhal]

Right on cue. Snapper is the third caller here

Ahhh that was truly blissful listening. Thanks!

 

[Sweetback]

Voss is the Frank Lampard of the AFL