Mega Thread Non-Freo AFL Discussion 2023

[E Shed]

Its lucky Cerra came out and said a few weeks ago it wouldn't be a big deal if they don't play finals.
Would have been awful for them to have gotten their hopes up.

I believe their biggest problem is Voss can't coach to the level.

 

[Ge3ks]

I believe their biggest problem is Voss can't coach to the level.

Didn't Voss coach unsuccessfully coach a team years ago? Or did I just imagine it.

 

[E Shed]

Didn't Voss coach unsuccessfully coach a team years ago? Or did I just imagine it.

Who can forget the crazy Vossy years? Even signed Fev up when he was completely cooked (as a footballer not just a human).

 

[Purple Jesus]

Didn't Voss coach unsuccessfully coach a team years ago? Or did I just imagine it.

Brisbane yep.

 

[Wilksyy]

Carlton's autopsy thread is so good.

 

[Kapow!!!]

Its lucky Cerra came out and said a few weeks ago it wouldn't be a big deal if they don't play finals.
Would have been awful for them to have gotten their hopes up.

I believe their biggest problem is Voss can't coach to the level.

Voss is an issue but this rot cuts deeper. Both Bolton and Ratten aren't complete mugs and had some semblance of structure and plan that never matured beyond the drafting and early results stage for a reason. It's why I feel Lyon would've gotten early results whilst imploding the entire club in the medium term due to board resistance against him asserting the control he needs to bring everyone to his standard. Hell, it's why Lyon wasn't offered the job immediately in the first place after that initial meeting and interview.

 

[poshman]

Voss is an issue but this rot cuts deeper. Both Bolton and Ratten aren't complete mugs and had some semblance of structure and plan that never matured beyond the drafting and early results stage for a reason. It's why I feel Lyon would've gotten early results whilst imploding the entire club in the medium term due to board resistance against him asserting the control he needs to bring everyone to his standard. Hell, it's why Lyon wasn't offered the job immediately in the first place after that initial meeting and interview.

They were foolish to pass on Lyon. There is a rot at that club that has been set in for 20 years now.

 

[Kapow!!!]

Troy Cook was with the swans players when they did the team song. Good on him!

He only played 43 games for the swans from 1997-1999.

He played 150 games for us dockers.

And yes I was at his last ever AFL game. Round 22 in 2007 vs Port Adelaide at football park

Cook was the bravest, hardest player of his era and that's a hill I've always been willing to die on (and my non-freo supporting family have been more than willing to defend that point of my behalf). I remember that famous heritage round game in 2003 when he and Archer lined up on each other and you could just see the difference: One was reckless and threw his body at the contest without thought nor care and the other did but still went in just as hard (if not harder) anyway.

He deserves any and all the positive treatment coming his way

 

[Kapow!!!]

Honestly this game may have finally made me stop hating Carlton since the whole Cerra thing. I now just kinda feel sorry for them. Which if a Freo fan is feeling pity for your club than that is a new low...
Although I'll probably resume hating on them when they show up like it's their grand final whenever we play this year.

If there's one thing being in BigFooty circa 2013/2014 wrt West Coast, 2015 Geelong, 2010-2018 Brisbane has taught me repeatedly: Never cut a sucker an even break. They've shown their true colours with only the faint whisp of success...adjacent. They'll be bloody brutal supporters if they actually get it together. The Richmond scourge will pale into insignificance in comparison

 

[FreoRicci]

Its lucky Cerra came out and said a few weeks ago it wouldn't be a big deal if they don't play finals.
Would have been awful for them to have gotten their hopes up.

I believe their biggest problem is Voss can't coach to the level.

Cerra right there is the problem.
A player goes and does the media then comes up with that shit. He’s not buying in, he doesn’t seem to care about winning or losing, just have fun bro. Just knew right then, affirms it even more, that Cerra is just rising the Victorian wave and getting guaranteed money. Eh.
Cannot have any player having that attitude. It reeks.

 

[Purple Jesus]

Cerra right there is the problem.
A player goes and does the media then comes up with that s**t. He’s not buying in, he doesn’t seem to care about winning or losing, just have fun bro. Just knew right then, affirms it even more, that Cerra is just rising the Victorian wave and getting guaranteed money. Eh.
Cannot have any player having that attitude. It reeks.

Doesn't help that he's also a personality blackhole.

A ken doll of a player.

 

[Moist Biscuit]

Cerra right there is the problem.
A player goes and does the media then comes up with that s**t. He’s not buying in, he doesn’t seem to care about winning or losing, just have fun bro. Just knew right then, affirms it even more, that Cerra is just rising the Victorian wave and getting guaranteed money. Eh.
Cannot have any player having that attitude. It reeks.

The fact we essentially got Amiss for trading Cerra, I bloody love Cerra. Hope he doesnt play finals for the entirely of his career but hope he has a great time and lots of fun.

If there's one thing being in BigFooty circa 2013/2014 wrt West Coast, 2015 Geelong, 2010-2018 Brisbane has taught me repeatedly: Never cut a sucker an even break. They've shown their true colours with only the faint whisp of success...adjacent. They'll be bloody brutal supporters if they actually get it together. The Richmond scourge will pale into insignificance in comparison

Couldn't agree with this more. I'm not as vocal as I once was on here, but arrogance has always been a strong point of Carlton supporters, they are generally the first to bag our club when we aren't travelling well. Kick them whilst they are down and kiss your lucky stars Ross Lyon isn't coaching them.

 

[Kram]

Its lucky Cerra came out and said a few weeks ago it wouldn't be a big deal if they don't play finals.
Would have been awful for them to have gotten their hopes up.

I believe their biggest problem is Voss can't coach to the level.

It's easy to just blame the coach and no doubt he has to take some responsibility but the club's problems go far deeper than him.

Sack Voss and replace him without cleaning the place out everywhere else and nothing would change imo.

 

[SHill Shall]

It's easy to just blame the coach and no doubt he has to take some responsibility but the club's problems go far deeper than him.

Sack Voss and replace him without cleaning the place out everywhere else and nothing would change imo.

I get where you’re coming from and agree to some extent. Although what RTB is getting out of a far less talented list down the road is an interesting counterpoint to that argument. Nothing else seemed to change much at the Saints except the part of the footy dept that Ross leads.

 

[greatgatsby]

I hope we're in Motlop's ear, perfect Sonny replacement. They can have the pick they gave us for Acres back lol

First time I’ve looked at Motlop … he can’t kick.

 

[Joao]

Carlton get next Friday night as well

As hard as it is on general fans, its tougher on Carlton fans. Ruins the rest of the weekend of footy when your team disappoints on Friday night (as we well know).

 

[DragoDelph]

First time I’ve looked at Motlop … he can’t kick.

Anko Henry?

 

[Yeti]

As hard as it is on general fans, its tougher on Carlton fans. Ruins the rest of the weekend of footy when your team disappoints on Friday night (as we well know).

Carlton should get Friday night every week. It's a great way to start the weekend.
.

 

[Kapow!!!]

I get where you’re coming from and agree to some extent. Although what RTB is getting out of a far less talented list down the road is an interesting counterpoint to that argument. Nothing else seemed to change much at the Saints except the part of the footy dept that Ross leads.

I'd say that changing the footy department was a significant change. I'd say the attitude to recognise that they were getting it wrong in more areas than just the coach and needed to surround him with a better department was far more than Carlton recognised in their coaching recruitment process.

St. Kilda and Carlton actually highlight the stale culture problem well when you exam their modern histories. St. Kilda were the least successful club in the 20th century and Carlton were the most successful yet in the 21st century and the evolution of the game to its modern intricacies and gamestyle, business and overall club structures, their roles have reversed.

St. Kilda have made multiple grand finals and reaching finals with their peaks and not winning spoons in their troughs. St. Kilda went through a lean patch in the 2010s, saw their solutions weren't working and put their egos aside to hire back the bloke who ditched out on them in order to re-establish their previous successful staff and then subsequently surrounded him with the blokes he chose to help him achieve.

Carlton on the other hand have made the finals 4 times (3 legitimate, 1 because of Essendon drugs scandal) since 2001, all of which failing to make it to the Prelims, and had a long history of just buying players to stay not just relevant but dominant, feeding that insular culture that "they know success". This has dogged them at every turn in the 21st century: They tanked, bought in high draft picks, bought into Judd being able to carry them to premiership success.

Now they've rebuilt in a similar fashion with high end draft picks and backed in their board to have gotten it right. They couldn't put their egos aside and hire the best coach available for the job because they had to do it their way. So they hired the most palatable sounding assistant at the time who also has a legacy as a player. That's culture. That's their earned complacency.

When the game evolved and they were no longer the biggest fish in a smaller pond they failed to drive meaningful change. St. Kilda, whilst f***ing up, have tried. They've tripped over themselves at nearly every turn but they're trying to evolve. Carlton have just expected being a big club will draw the success if the best draft picks and the high end talent are able to be bought and plonked on the park.

Evolutionary complacency due to a cultural "success entitlement" has cost Carlton. One could make the argument that West Coast is the latest victim of this cultural complacency and is now paying the price.

 

[Taylor]

It's easy to just blame the coach and no doubt he has to take some responsibility but the club's problems go far deeper than him.

Sack Voss and replace him without cleaning the place out everywhere else and nothing would change imo.

How can they boot out the people who are paying half their list extra cash outside the salary cap?

Personally I'd like to see it, but they will tear the curtains off as they are dragged out and expose the whole thing.

 

[blue shark]

I'd say that changing the footy department was a significant change. I'd say the attitude to recognise that they were getting it wrong in more areas than just the coach and needed to surround him with a better department was far more than Carlton recognised in their coaching recruitment process.

St. Kilda and Carlton actually highlight the stale culture problem well when you exam their modern histories. St. Kilda were the least successful club in the 20th century and Carlton were the most successful yet in the 21st century and the evolution of the game to its modern intricacies and gamestyle, business and overall club structures, their roles have reversed.

St. Kilda have made multiple grand finals and reaching finals with their peaks and not winning spoons in their troughs. St. Kilda went through a lean patch in the 2010s, saw their solutions weren't working and put their egos aside to hire back the bloke who ditched out on them in order to re-establish their previous successful staff and then subsequently surrounded him with the blokes he chose to help him achieve.

Carlton on the other hand have made the finals 4 times (3 legitimate, 1 because of Essendon drugs scandal) since 2001, all of which failing to make it to the Prelims, and had a long history of just buying players to stay not just relevant but dominant, feeding that insular culture that "they know success". This has dogged them at every turn in the 21st century: They tanked, bought in high draft picks, bought into Judd being able to carry them to premiership success.

Now they've rebuilt in a similar fashion with high end draft picks and backed in their board to have gotten it right. They couldn't put their egos aside and hire the best coach available for the job because they had to do it their way. So they hired the most palatable sounding assistant at the time who also has a legacy as a player. That's culture. That's their earned complacency.

When the game evolved and they were no longer the biggest fish in a smaller pond they failed to drive meaningful change. St. Kilda, whilst f***ing up, have tried. They've tripped over themselves at nearly every turn but they're trying to evolve. Carlton have just expected being a big club will draw the success if the best draft picks and the high end talent are able to be bought and plonked on the park.

Evolutionary complacency due to a cultural "success entitlement" has cost Carlton. One could make the argument that West Coast is the latest victim of this cultural complacency and is now paying the price.

Definitely need an astute recruiting and trade manager. With decent assistants that can develop youth.
Still think we are one or two short but since 2016 to now we have built an envious list.
The quality of first rounders and quantity compared to where we started, some of the clubs mentioned are clueless.
Try naming young stars at WC or the Blues?
But it’s not just our first rounds, we are at a stage where we complain about Banfield and Hughes, both players have vastly improved in our system and its
difficult to pick a bottom 6
The speed of the game is lost at WC, Blues, but more importantly they have no
heart.

 

[DQ 4EVER]

The fact we essentially got Amiss for trading Cerra, I bloody love Cerra. Hope he doesnt play finals for the entirely of his career but hope he has a great time and lots of fun.

Couldn't agree with this more. I'm not as vocal as I once was on here, but arrogance has always been a strong point of Carlton supporters, they are generally the first to bag our club when we aren't travelling well. Kick them whilst they are down and kiss your lucky stars Ross Lyon isn't coaching them.

This
And I was a Carlton fan before Freo FC existed, so I had a soft spot for them, but after moving to Melbourne I have first hand witnessed their deplorable fan base, second only 2 u know who.
And further to the barich tweet, if the evils are willing to give up pick one for a left footed full forward with a better kick than McKay I know of a guy called Matt who might want to move up the road.
Joking
Sorry Tabs, couldn't do it to you

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Dockeroo]

Motlop should never be mentioned in the same breath as Walters. That is an insult to the great man!
Motlop would be replacing Henry on our list… at peel.

All this talk of Carlton’s talent annoys me. It’s not a talented list!!
There is a handful of stars of which only curnow is playing at his level. Maybe Walsh. Cripps having a stinker of a year.
McKay has literally forgotten how to football. Saad can be very good but he’s a half back flanker at the end of the day.

The other players are B grade at best, Cez probably the pick of them. Weitering just a run of the mill key defender.
None of the following players would get a look in anywhere other than west coast and one of two other bottom end clubs:
Durdin
Boyd
Cottrell
Pittonet
Owies
Kemp
Ed Curnow

Also think players like Sam Doherty and McGovern are criminally overrated by the VFL media. Neither would get a game at the dockers apart from maybe replacing Hughes.

In summary - it’s NOT a talented list. I would take the saints list easily over Carlton. King, Phillipou, Owens and wanganeen milera to name just 4 - all projecting as far better than anything carlton have younger than Sam Walsh

18

Sam Walsh

Age

24

Ht

184cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

25.1

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

11.6

5star

M

5.1

5star

T

3.2

5star

CL

3.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

26.2

5star

K

15.4

5star

HB

10.8

5star

M

6.0

5star

T

3.2

5star

CL

4.8

5star

.

 

[Kram]

The fact we essentially got Amiss for trading Cerra, I bloody love Cerra. Hope he doesnt play finals for the entirely of his career but hope he has a great time and lots of fun.

Couldn't agree with this more. I'm not as vocal as I once was on here, but arrogance has always been a strong point of Carlton supporters, they are generally the first to bag our club when we aren't travelling well. Kick them whilst they are down and kiss your lucky stars Ross Lyon isn't coaching them.

Meh Cerra held up his end of the bargain with honest service for 4 years and finished his contract. We then got fair compensation. If people like that want to move on I hold them no bad will and good luck to em.

Nimrods like Hogan and Lobb the opposite though.

 

[theGav56]

Reid appears to me to be one who will hit his ceiling early. Doesn't mean he won't be good but he's not going to get exponentially better as he gets stronger and more capable. So Ginbey and he will be good but they're not dominating for quite some time yet.

I too was hoping for a decade in relentless medicority for the Weavils and fear a quick bottom-out, but the reality is they haven't even hit bottom yet.

They have to move on all the old campaigners (NN, Hurn, Ducky, Gaff), the broken (Darling, Yeo and McShoving) and the WAFL top-ups and list-cloggers (only their mums know their names). That's going to take 3 years minimum.

Which leaves them with Kelly, Barrass and Allen as their only viable established talent, Ginbey as their only proven young talent and a couple of other possibles from their wildly speculative drafting over the last few seasons (Chesser? What a pick in hope.) 6 or 7 blokes you'd piss on if they were on fire.

You can add another three years of top 10 draft picks to that and you're still in Norths territory - cannonfodder hanging on and kids getting offended.

It's a hard choice as to which I prefer - 5 years of abject misery for those arrogant *silly people or a decade of mediocrity?

One thing that is really hurting them is having won a flag just before the Covid restrictions on softcap. They have to pay a premiership premium for Simpson and can't escape it. I used to think he was a whingeing campaigner for his moaning about not being able to afford proper care for diverse hires, but he is right. They are rooted. Their assistants are all blokes just happy to have a job. It's almost as bleak as the rejects we had when Rossco was burning through support staff.

In the last season and a half, they have been arsebanged by over 16 goals more often than they have won games. Their average losing margin is 49 points! It beggars belief.

Only their really demented fans are still showing their heads - the downbeat, dangerous and broken. You are either cruelly punching down or risking being covered in the froth of the crazy if you engage.

Still, I don't need to hang s**t on them to enjoy this. They are s**t.

(Yes, Belnakor, yes - "reeks of hubris". Nailed it.)

Thanks for that.

At it's best bigfooty smashes media wisdom, and your post is a fine example.