Non Lions Discussion 2019
- Thread starter Big Sauce 21
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Dalions
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The Crow Coast!
Hollow Knight
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Gold Crowst.
BRAB
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Rowell+Anderson is their McCluggage+Berry.
1 and 2 would be untradeable for them I'd imagine. Two young guns buying in might drag the rest along like we saw with our kids. (Berry Signed early 2017 for an extra 2 years and acted as the circuit breaker for us)
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And when they’re still shit in 2 years do you see them hanging around?
Or they could trade for 2 potentially all Australian midfielders on long term contracts and still have plenty of young talent come through.
BRAB
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See above
We only started winning this year and yet our retention issues started to dissipate in early 2017. The catalysts were player buy in and an improvement in the quality of off field coaching staff. This is a roll of the dice for a sustainably good team and if the suns start trading away top end picks out of fear of them leaving they may as well fold.
Given we just went through something similar I am surprised this kind of response is on the Lions board. Reads like something someone in the Vic bubble would say.
The best option imo would be to trade Crouch x2 for Luko and keep their first 2 picks.
Ins: Rowell, Anderson, Matt Crouch, Brad Crouch
Out: Luko
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Ins: Rowell, Anderson, Matt Crouch, Brad Crouch
Out: Luko
Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
BRAB
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They won't trade Luko this year. Need to back themselves in to sign him imo.
They've got so much 2020 currency to work with to get both Crouch Brothers on Board.
BRAB
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One example of a trade that followed the "The Kids are leaving anyway trade in experience" train of thought was a trade floated in the 2016 period.
Two Hawks players (Think it was Hartung and Birchall) for Pick 19.
Same thought process. Why bother taking 19 to the draft when we've already got heaps of young kids. May as well trade for experience. Club vetoed it pretty late in the trade period.
That pick 19 ended up being Witherden. He's now committed to the club and looks primed to take over as the general of our backline for the next 10 years.
Back in the kids.
Two Hawks players (Think it was Hartung and Birchall) for Pick 19.
Same thought process. Why bother taking 19 to the draft when we've already got heaps of young kids. May as well trade for experience. Club vetoed it pretty late in the trade period.
That pick 19 ended up being Witherden. He's now committed to the club and looks primed to take over as the general of our backline for the next 10 years.
Back in the kids.
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Here's a thought- why would GC want Brad Crouch? He's an inside mid with poor disposal and no speed, and if there's one thing we've learned about Dew it's that he seems to hate that kind of player even though his gameplan is based around keeping the ball inside the contest and having Witts tap it down to no one 50 times a game.
abcde12345
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Feels like there are quite a few people here with pretty short memories doesn't it. We only finished one win ahead of GC last year. We were wooden spooners when these contracts started coming through.
I think at the end of the day, a lot of it comes down to the character of the player base they have drafted. They seem to have a core of promising younger players that are really committed to the club (Fiorini, Ainsworth etc). Rowell and Anderson at least give the impression that they have pretty strong characters and are prepared to face the challenges.
If they can get these younger guys, and hopefully Luko and King too, committed to the club and buying into the vision, then you'd have to think they project very similarly to us over the next 3-5 years.
Did anyone else catch the Trade Game on TV last night. Goddard came up with this gem of a trade.
Any chance he's on the payroll at Geelong now in some capacity?
** Potentially satisfy the Cats..... .... ..** He's out of bloody contract.
Any chance he's on the payroll at Geelong now in some capacity?
** Potentially satisfy the Cats..... .... ..** He's out of bloody contract.
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He has speed. He can break away from packs. Huge upgrade on Swallow or Miller.
Good point mate. Would allow them to keep all of them.
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abcde12345
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The way I see it is, there are two different kinds of "extractors". There are the explosive, big-bodied midfielders (Cripps, Fyfe etc) which are very much in favour, as well as the slower, smaller stoppage specialists. Lachie Neale would fall into the latter category.
The reason the former is more favoured is because they offer you more versatility. They are able to win the ball and clear it. Players of the latter variety instead will typically win their ball and then clear it through another player. Size also offers the coaches more options with on-field structure, such as the ability to rest players forward as a marking target. Obviously in this regard, a player of the latter variety is significantly more one-dimensional.
Now, none of this is to say that the smaller variety is "bad". Lachie is obviously a gun player. But on the other hand, there are only so many of these types of players you want. It also isn't a fast rule. There are some bigger bodied players that are slow and one-dimensional, and some smaller bodied players that are quick and good above their heads. What it does say though, is if you're fielding a team with a player of this kind, you want players with contrasting attributes. A player like Zorko, with explosive outside speed and fantastic disposal, takes the quality of the smaller stoppage player up a notch.
I would argue that the Crouch brothers absolutely typify the second category, (especially Matt). Neither are particularly fast or big, and both are very much at home in the stoppage and very one-dimensional in that regard. When fielded with more similar marquee players (Sloane etc), it makes for a very slow and one-dimensional midfield which can be shut down with relative ease. As none of these players can do anything except line-up on the ball, it gives the coaches a lot less options if something goes wrong, and makes the game very predictable for the opposition.
The Suns have a significant number of small and mid-sized, average paced midfielders. But what they really lack is that speedy, classy player for these inside players to feed the ball to, or a bigger bodied player that can win the ball and break it through the stoppage efficiently themselves. When looking at the Crouch brothers as targets for the Gold Coast - yes they would be upgrades on some of their current players (in fact, they would probably be their two best midfielders along with Swallow), but what this wouldn't address is the need for a player with pace that moves the ball efficiently beyond their stoppage (they are absolutely crying out for their version of a Zorko).
When considering what they would be giving up to get the Crouch brothers (at least in this hypothetical), pick one and two shape up as generational talents. One is in the smaller bodied inside midfield mould, the other is the bigger bodied explosive midfielder with the versatility of going forward. What's more, they seem like they have pretty good characters, and are good mates who seem committed to each other (much like Berry and McCluggage). They could very well be the "circuit-breakers" that help completely turn the club around.
Giving up one of these for both Matt and Brad, who together would not complement the existing Gold Coast line up well, would be crazy in my opinion. Much higher chance of seeing the other leave in a couple of years that way, and I think the improvement Matt would add on top of Brad for the line-up would be marginal at best.
The other factor is the cap space. Paying two very one-dimensional players who play very similar roles a combined $1.5m+ per year for 5 years would be madness. It would need to be very front loaded for it to make sense, as they need to have some powder available for King, Luko, Rowell and Anderson.
Most logical option for me would be for them to look to bring in Brad with Greenwood for something along the lines of 2019 pick 15, 20 and 2020 pick 11. I think in that scenario Adelaide gets overs, but it allows the Suns to keep pick 1 and 2, while still staying at the top end of the 2020 draft.
Some of the ideas thrown up for trade scenarios for the Crouch brothers by Crows (mainly on twitter) are next level. Rankine and Luscious for the Crouch brothers, Pick 1 and 2 for Crouch brothers, etc., then when a GC supporter steps in to defend himself he gets attacked pretty hard. This year at the Gabba I found the Crows supporters to be pretty sore losers (heartbreaking loss to be fair) and though a small set don't represent the whole, overall I've never found Adelaide or Port supporters to be particularly pleasant.
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Dad and I had the displeasure of sitting next a particularly bad crows supporter this year... Although when we went to a Port game in Adelaide it was fine, they did win that game however
.
Fantasia set to ask for a trade home to SA. His contract was heavily front loaded and now that's been paid up he is getting out of dodge Would have to be frustrating for a club, when a player does that.
Would have to be frustrating for a club, when a player does that.
Essington culture.Fantasia set to ask for a trade home to SA. His contract was heavily front loaded and now that's been paid up he is getting out of dodge
Kelly has officially requested a trade to West Coast, doesnt want any part of Fremantle, can't want to go home that bad?
If West Coast can get him without giving up anything significant then they would have to be close to favourites for the flag next year barring Richmond.
What can they give up for him that will satisfy Geelong though? a couple of pics in the teens would not be that enticing.
If West Coast can get him without giving up anything significant then they would have to be close to favourites for the flag next year barring Richmond.
What can they give up for him that will satisfy Geelong though? a couple of pics in the teens would not be that enticing.
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Frustrating now for the club, yes, but they go into them willingly and for mutual benefit.Fantasia set to ask for a trade home to SA. His contract was heavily front loaded and now that's been paid up he is getting out of dodge
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BRAB
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It's totally understandable for him to not want to be at Freo. It's a joke of a club.
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Can't wait for FreoGirl to be animated again.
