Non-Lions discussion 2023

[martinson]

His dad was better

Na.

Not nearly at the same age .

Of course Nick still has to carve out his career.

 

[morsie]

Agreed he is being protected less and less.Still nowhere near as good as his old man.Great kick but lots of loopy handballs.Also any team would have him in a heartbeat but the praise is to me over the top.

So you've seen most weeks he plays midfield and defence. Basically wherever he's needed which is even more impressive

 

[Elixuh]

My favourite part is that all the commentary has just completely ignored their loss against us where we played a game style that countered theirs.

It’s not as sexy when you say ‘pies are unbeatable, except for that team that figured them out and beat them’.

 

[p4p1]

I think that's what actually impresses me about him - not the raw numbers, and yes there's a caveat that I don't think he can win his own ball so he is dependent on teammates to a level others aren't - but his workrate is phenomenal. He just pops up everywhere. I also wouldn't be surprised if he does continue to develop and works on an inside game as well, which is disappointing given he plays for the Pies but he does strike me as one of those kids to whom "continuous improvement" is a real thing (Ashcroft being another).

Incredible tank for a second year player, yes he picks up a lot of easy ball and he would be embarrassed by the two contests he had against us. He isn't the guy that is going to be at the bottom of the pack shovelling it out, but his work rate around the ground means he is an option for his teammates. There isn't many sports where you can't flourish on almost workrate alone, that he has great skills is just gravy.

 

[Leuy LongerCombo]

Daicos is one of the best players I've ever seen. Scary to think this is a 20 year old with a single season under his belt. Get the ball into his hands as much as possible and good things happen. Rarely makes a mistake, takes pretty much the best option every time with aggressive kicks that just open the game up, can go forward and kick goals. ELITE footy brain. A bit soft at times but he's 20... certainly can win his own ball but it's not a huge strength but still decent. You'd just rather have the ball in his hands in space.

Think we are witnessing a once in a lifetime kinda talent. Future HoF, Brownlow medallist, many AA's.

It’s absolutely outrageous that anyone, let alone a 20y.o, who can use the ball like him is averaging 36 disposals a game. Those type of averages are normally for those big inside Mids types.

No doubt he does get a boost from kick ins. Other players can be rightfully criticized for stat padding in this area i.e Luke Ryan, Ziebell etc but he gets a pass in my book, because he’d be close to the last player any opposition team would want taking the kick in, with those attributes you described.

I don’t think he’s had over the top attention from taggers in any of the games I’ve seen. Port tried Lachie Jones on him, but id view him as a forward tagger, capable of influence a rebounding defenders output not a midfielders. Diacos seems to just straight up role into the midfield unchecked, they back him to have a bigger impact and trust the likes of Maynard and Moore to help cover.

The Adelaide game may be an interesting watch if Keayes gets a full run with role, but I’m doubtful that eventuate. I’m more interested when they play Sydney in a couple of weeks with Clarke who went with him last year with a decent result.

He’s an awesome player to watch, having a similar impact to what Judd had early in his career. Will have a deserving decorated career if he continues.

 

[p4p1]

It’s absolutely outrageous that anyone, let alone a 20y.o, who can use the ball like him is averaging 36 disposals a game. Those type of averages are normally for those big inside Mids types.

No doubt he does get a boost from kick ins. Other players can be rightfully criticized for stat padding in this area i.e Luke Ryan, Ziebell etc but he gets a pass in my book, because he’d be close to the last player any opposition team would want taking the kick in, with those attributes you described.

I don’t think he’s had over the top attention from taggers in any of the games I’ve seen. Port tried Lachie Jones on him, but id view him as a forward tagger, capable of influence a rebounding defenders output not a midfielders. Diacos seems to just straight up role into the midfield unchecked, they back him to have a bigger impact and trust the likes of Maynard and Moore to help cover.

The Adelaide game may be an interesting watch if Keayes gets a full run with role, but I’m doubtful that eventuate. I’m more interested when they play Sydney in a couple of weeks with Clarke who went with him last year with a decent result.

He’s an awesome player to watch, having a similar impact to what Judd had early in his career. Will have a deserving decorated career if he continues.

He plays a similar role to what Richy has done for us albeit with a much better tank. I'm not a fan of the Judd comparisons because I do think Judd played a much harder role even early on. I was never a huge fan of Judd especially early on because he did get a lot of benefit from Cox rucking and Cousins or Kerr doing the hard work at the bottom of the pack getting the ball to him and offering more defensive support. But what Judd offered offensively for a midfield was undeniable. From what I have seen Daicos doesn't have the power to burst through a stoppage like Judd used to be able to do but he makes up for it with workrate and footy IQ. I think Daicos does benefit from the Collingwood system and being surrounded by some very handy in and under players. FWIW I would still have Judd as a 19/20 year old over Daicos.

Could Coleman play a similar role and have a similar impact?

 

[briztoon]

He plays a similar role to what Richy has done for us albeit with a much better tank. I'm not a fan of the Judd comparisons because I do think Judd played a much harder role even early on. I was never a huge fan of Judd especially early on because he did get a lot of benefit from Cox rucking and Cousins or Kerr doing the hard work at the bottom of the pack getting the ball to him and offering more defensive support. But what Judd offered offensively for a midfield was undeniable. From what I have seen Daicos doesn't have the power to burst through a stoppage like Judd used to be able to do but he makes up for it with workrate and footy IQ. I think Daicos does benefit from the Collingwood system and being surrounded by some very handy in and under players. FWIW I would still have Judd as a 19/20 year old over Daicos.

Could Coleman play a similar role and have a similar impact?

Doesn’t have the tank.

 

[p4p1]

Doesn’t have the tank.

I thought that would be the issue, though we do rely on Kiddy to be more defensively sound as well.

I'm sure part of the reason for his tank is being raised by a farther who played at such a high level. It's pretty simple really, as a kid the more you can run, the more you can get the ball, which was probably drilled into him.

 

[McIvor]

I still cant believe those clubs didnt nominate him earlier - reeked of being intimidated by the Pies i thought.

 

[martinson]

Memory and skills are fading in my old age.

In my previous post I meant that Nick is much better than Peter at the same age . Peter couldn't do what Nick is doing then.

Re Kiddy let's face it he was overrated in a few places because of his set up kicks in maybe half a dozen games. Not saying Kiddy isn't going to be a gun and we need to see it happen over a season. .

 

[Tom14]

He plays a similar role to what Richy has done for us albeit with a much better tank. I'm not a fan of the Judd comparisons because I do think Judd played a much harder role even early on. I was never a huge fan of Judd especially early on because he did get a lot of benefit from Cox rucking and Cousins or Kerr doing the hard work at the bottom of the pack getting the ball to him and offering more defensive support. But what Judd offered offensively for a midfield was undeniable. From what I have seen Daicos doesn't have the power to burst through a stoppage like Judd used to be able to do but he makes up for it with workrate and footy IQ. I think Daicos does benefit from the Collingwood system and being surrounded by some very handy in and under players. FWIW I would still have Judd as a 19/20 year old over Daicos.

Could Coleman play a similar role and have a similar impact?

No.

 

[martinson]

No.

People trying to find the person in their team to play like Daicos does are wasting their time.

Won't find anyone with that tank ,pace and finishing skills.

Interesting to see how the opposition handle him now that it's all out there. There are coaches I know who won't want to put up with that.

 

[Viceregal]

It would be nice if there was a space in the narrative between 'he is a soft seagull getting fed the ball by his teammates' and 'omg the bestest Aussie Rules player ever to pull on a pair of boots bow down and worship all ye mortals and despair'

I am happy for the kid to be an awesome player but as soon as people start making over the top claims the instinct to 'yeah but' just kicks in - enjoy the ride and praise him for what he is doing not you expect him to do ... of coure there are less clicks that way so not going to happen.

 

[HereIGoAgain]

The problem with premature expectations is that someone always ends up disappointed.

 

[Grasshopper17]

I like the balance tbh. I think the arc stuff has improved a lot since it was first brought in. How many incorrect calls have happened?

Tell you what, the goal that Brent Daniels kicked in the third quarter from the pocket was definitely not a goal. We all saw it go behind the goal post. Couldn't believe that wasn't picked up if "all goals are automatically reviewed".

 

[Grasshopper17]

I think the odds of losing a grand final due to a goal umpire error pales in comparison to losing a grand final due to a field umpire's error (or boundary umpire? - hello Wayne Harmes). And we don't have a tech intervention for that.

I'd be happy to see a captain's challenge introduced but with strict criteria to stop it being used frivolously too early in games:

1. Can only be used in the last 5 minutes of a match
2. Can only be used inside 50 (attacking or defensive)
3. Can only be used if the margin is less than 13 points

In the event of a free kick being given which turns out to be incorrect, if a free should have gone the other way, pay that one, otherwise a ball up from where the free was originally awarded.

In the event of a free kick not being given (and the appealing team feels it should have been), play stops as soon as an umpire is aware the captain has challenged (similar to the final siren). If a free kick should have been awarded (to either team) then it is paid, however, if NO free kick should have been paid, ie the ump got it right, free kick to the other team from where play was whistled dead.

In the event of a score happening between the time a captain (the defending captain you'd imagine) announces his intention to challenge, and an umpire observing this intention, the ARC can rule on this and overturn the score if appropriate. However if the captain is wrong, the other team can choose whether the score stands or whether they want to take a free kick.

That's how I'd draw it up anyway.

 

[SizeMatters]

Tell you what, the goal that Brent Daniels kicked in the third quarter from the pocket was definitely not a goal. We all saw it go behind the goal post. Couldn't believe that wasn't picked up if "all goals are automatically reviewed".

If that’s the one where he robbed Andrew’s it was 100 per cent a goal. I was in line with it So much so the ball hit my girlfriend on her head. It was a great goal.

 

[Viceregal]

I'd be happy to see a captain's challenge introduced but with strict criteria to stop it being used frivolously too early in games:

1. Can only be used in the last 5 minutes of a match
2. Can only be used inside 50 (attacking or defensive)
3. Can only be used if the margin is less than 13 points

In the event of a free kick being given which turns out to be incorrect, if a free should have gone the other way, pay that one, otherwise a ball up from where the free was originally awarded.

In the event of a free kick not being given (and the appealing team feels it should have been), play stops as soon as an umpire is aware the captain has challenged (similar to the final siren). If a free kick should have been awarded (to either team) then it is paid, however, if NO free kick should have been paid, ie the ump got it right, free kick to the other team from where play was whistled dead.

In the event of a score happening between the time a captain (the defending captain you'd imagine) announces his intention to challenge, and an umpire observing this intention, the ARC can rule on this and overturn the score if appropriate. However if the captain is wrong, the other team can choose whether the score stands or whether they want to take a free kick.

That's how I'd draw it up anyway.

Would that leave the option open for a defending captain to 'professionally' challenge as a player is streaming into an open 50 certain to kick the winning goal so as to allow the defense time to set up?

 

[SizeMatters]

I like the balance on the goal review. It’s a tool used by umps (and critically only umps) when uncertain. What I don’t like is the shitbox field cameras they have when you got to see if the ball is touched. Need better field cameras.

 

[Leuy LongerCombo]

He plays a similar role to what Richy has done for us albeit with a much better tank. I'm not a fan of the Judd comparisons because I do think Judd played a much harder role even early on. I was never a huge fan of Judd especially early on because he did get a lot of benefit from Cox rucking and Cousins or Kerr doing the hard work at the bottom of the pack getting the ball to him and offering more defensive support. But what Judd offered offensively for a midfield was undeniable. From what I have seen Daicos doesn't have the power to burst through a stoppage like Judd used to be able to do but he makes up for it with workrate and footy IQ. I think Daicos does benefit from the Collingwood system and being surrounded by some very handy in and under players. FWIW I would still have Judd as a 19/20 year old over Daicos.

Could Coleman play a similar role and have a similar impact?

I agree, Judd as a player comparison isnt very apt. However, from an impact perspective, I think it’s more than fair. Daicos has put together a very impressive stretch of football, where he’s rightfully been discussed as a potential brownlow medalist and generating discussion about his elite standing in the game as a 20y.o. Judd is the last player, I can remember being discussed in such a legitimate way.

Interesting discussion about Judd over Daicos. I agree at this stage in both careers, I’d choose Judd as an 19/20. His ball winning and burst style of play you described would stand up in any era, arguably more dominate in today 6/6/6 era.

However I don’t think Daicos’s ball winning ability will be in questioned for too long. He had a few poor showing against us, but think they’ll be ironed out as he matures. His potential ceiling is enormous if he startes to hurt opposition from clearances.

 

[bungalow_bill]

It would be nice if there was a space in the narrative between 'he is a soft seagull getting fed the ball by his teammates' and 'omg the bestest Aussie Rules player ever to pull on a pair of boots bow down and worship all ye mortals and despair'

I am happy for the kid to be an awesome player but as soon as people start making over the top claims the instinct to 'yeah but' just kicks in - enjoy the ride and praise him for what he is doing not you expect him to do ... of coure there are less clicks that way so not going to happen.

I'm in that middle area - not a seagull but also not this greatest player of the last 20 years silliness. Some of the hype seems a bit unhinged to me. A very talented kid who should have a great career is my stance.

It was just a few years ago that everyone was going crazy over Rowell who was going to be the next Judd.

 

[Jivlain]

They can't be that young

	Collingwood	Essendon
(0 to 10 games)	2	2
0 to 24 games	4	3
25 to 49 games	5	6
50 to 99 games	4	7
100 to 199 games	7	5
200+ games	3	2
Games played	104.96	80.13
Age	26.61	25.38
Height	187.65	188.48
Finals played	7.17	1.96

Interactive version (permalink)

 

[Quested]

Watching goal of the year contenders for this week, how is Dusty even on there???? Delivers a high fend off ignored by the umps then kicks a regulation 15 degree 35 metre punt - did I miss something there? And it'll probably win for the week because it's Dusty

 

[Dalions]

Watching goal of the year contenders for this week, how is Dusty even on there???? Delivers a high fend off ignored by the umps then kicks a regulation 15 degree 35 metre punt - did I miss something there? And it'll probably win for the week because it's Dusty

He was actually passing it to Cumberland.

 

[Quested]

He was actually passing it to Cumberland.

Is that what made it special? Yeah it was definitely an intended pass wasn't it, Cumberland just chose to let it go