AFLW North Melbourne Football Club AFLW - Season 2024

[Horace]

I quite like Chloe and think she would look great in Royal Blue and White, but there is no way she is as talented as Garner, unless she speaks a dozen languages and plays guitar and well as Robert Fripp, Dick Dale or some of the other greats. She can't match her on the footy field.

Perhaps I dreamt this but I would have sworn, well into the game, one of the commentators on the Swans game, said that she had been quiet up till then. She certainly performed well in the latter stages of the game and helped them to their first win, but what I saw, she played nowhere near at the level that either Garner or Riddell did.

 

[King Corey]

Garner isn't even as talented as Emma King, let alone Chloe Molloy, Ellie McKenzie, Ebony Antonio, Tayla Harris etc.

That she's clearly a better player than all of the above is the result of having spent more time understanding her game and accepting feedback from coaches, while also being a more selfless teammate and a harder worker--things not typically associated with talent.

Think you're understating her talent there a touch.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Think you're understating her talent there a touch.

Doesn't run as fast (or nimble), jump as high or kick as far as the league's most talented players. That's just obvious.

While there's a degree of natural talent ingrained in her kicking accuracy, strong hands, and smarts, those features have developed moreso as a result of hard work and experience.

So, you thought wrong. If anything's been understated on this subject, it's the importance of all the other stuff that goes into becoming a great footballer (talent being the least important factor).

 

[Hearts to hearts]

Doesn't run as fast (or nimble), jump as high or kick as far as the league's most talented players. That's just obvious.

While there's a degree of natural talent ingrained in her kicking accuracy, strong hands, and smarts, those features have developed moreso as a result of hard work and experience.

So, you thought wrong. If anything's been understated on this subject, it's the importance of all the other stuff that goes into becoming a great footballer (talent being the least important factor).

That’s fair. It’s still hard to read Gowans comment and not hear a bit of a slap at all the other women he has coached (and not just at North) - I get he’s selling it, but it’s a bit much.

 

[Teen Wolf]

That’s fair. It’s still hard to read Gowans comment and not hear a bit of a slap at all the other women he has coached (and not just at North) - I get he’s selling it, but it’s a bit much.

I haven't seen Gowans' comment anywhere. I just know he said stuff like "once in a generation talent" about Molloy when coaching her at Diamond Creek. Seemed like his superlatives and whatnot this week were reserved for Ally Morphett.

 

[Horace]

Doesn't run as fast (or nimble), jump as high or kick as far as the league's most talented players. That's just obvious.

While there's a degree of natural talent ingrained in her kicking accuracy, strong hands, and smarts, those features have developed moreso as a result of hard work and experience.

So, you thought wrong. If anything's been understated on this subject, it's the importance of all the other stuff that goes into becoming a great footballer (talent being the least important factor).

That is one of the most ridiculous comments I have ever seen in 22 years of being on Big Footy. There are many facets of what makes a good footballer and talent is right up there as one of the important factors.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

I haven't seen Gowans' comment anywhere. I just know he said stuff like "once in a generation talent" about Molloy when coaching her at Diamond Creek. Seemed like his superlatives and whatnot this week were reserved for Ally Morphett.

The quote is actually ”the best player he’s ever seen” so even more hyperbolic. Why Swans coach Scott Gowans regards Chloe Molloy as the best AFLW player he's seen

 

[Teen Wolf]

That is one of the most ridiculous comments I have ever seen in 22 years of being on Big Footy. There are many facets of what makes a good footballer and talent is right up there as one of the important factors.

First of all, I didn't say "good" footballer. You can be a good footballer from talent alone. I said "great" footballer. Secondly, we agree talent is one of the important factors that goes into it, so idk what you're getting worked up about.

The quote is actually ”the best player he’s ever seen” so even more hyperbolic. Why Swans coach Scott Gowans regards Chloe Molloy as the best AFLW player he's seen

That does come off as bitter ex-coach vibes, moreso imo because he says Bri Davey is a close 2nd.

 

[Horace]

First of all, I didn't say "good" footballer. You can be a good footballer from talent alone. I said "great" footballer. Secondly, we agree talent is one of the important factors that goes into it, so idk what you're getting worked up about.


That does come off as bitter ex-coach vibes, moreso imo because he says Bri Davey is a close 2nd.

Mate read your post. You said "(talent being the least important factor). That is hardly an endorsement of the word talent.

Anyway in my opinion Jas is the best player in the competition. And I think that was shown by how she dominated in the first half, then got shut down in the third quarter when the Saints got on top, to bounce back in the last quarter when we took control again.

She is a ripper of a player and I completely disagree with your earlier comment being "Garner isn't even as talented as Emma King, let alone Chloe Molloy, Ellie McKenzie, Ebony Antonio, Tayla Harris etc.". An equally ridiculous comment as your (talent being the least important factor)

 

[shinboner magic]

Garner not as talented as Emma king lol
Heard it all now

 

[Horace]

Garner not as talented as Emma king lol
Heard it all now

I did LOL. Even Clarko is having a chuckle at that.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Mate read your post. You said "(talent being the least important factor). That is hardly an endorsement of the word talent.

I know what I wrote, just as I know you (and several others) didn't understand it. As expected.

Talent is among the important factors, but it's the least important--i.e. it gets you through the door, but more important stuff has a greater say on how well you do/how long you last. This concept is pretty widespread throughout all of sport.

Anyway in my opinion Jas is the best player in the competition. And I think that was shown by how she dominated in the first half, then got shut down in the third quarter when the Saints got on top, to bounce back in the last quarter when we took control again.

You mistakenly think I'm questioning Garner's standing as the league's best player, and so you needlessly defend her (with, might I add, a very underwhelming effort).

Garner not as talented as Emma king lol
Heard it all now

Nor as talented as Tahlia Randall.

But I wouldn't be surprised to find "shinboner magic" conflate something innate like talent with working class qualities like unselfishness, courage, and perseverance.

The fact we have the best player in the competition, who gets by without relying on the gifts which more spectacular players were born with, should be a source of pride for any North Melbourne supporter. A perfect exponent of the Shinboner Spirit. Yet many of you sneer at the notion. Very peculiar.

 

[shinboner magic]

I know what I wrote, just as I know you (and several others) didn't understand it. As expected.

Talent is among the important factors, but it's the least important--i.e. it gets you through the door, but more important stuff has a greater say on how well you do/how long you last. This concept is pretty widespread throughout all of sport.


You mistakenly think I'm questioning Garner's standing as the league's best player, and so you needlessly defend her (with, might I add, a very underwhelming effort).


Nor as talented as Tahlia Randall.

But I wouldn't be surprised to find "shinboner magic" conflate something innate like talent with working class qualities like unselfishness, courage, and perseverance.

The fact we have the best player in the competition, who gets by without relying on the gifts which more spectacular players were born with, should be a source of pride for any North Melbourne supporter. A perfect exponent of the Shinboner Spirit. Yet many of you sneer at the notion. Very peculiar.

Ruok

 

[DarwinRoo]

Since when has jumping and speed got anything to do with talent?

You might as well be saying that Greg Williams doesn’t have as much talent as Majak Daw

28

Majak Daw

Age

33

Ht

195cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

D/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.3

2star

K

5.7

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

3.7

4star

T

2.9

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.2

2star

K

5.8

3star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

2.0

4star

.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Since when has jumping and speed got anything to do with talent?

You might as well be saying that Greg Williams doesn’t have as much talent as Majak Daw.

Take up your grievances with Oxford, Cambridge, etc.

talent

/ˈtalənt/

noun

1. natural aptitude or skill.

As far as football assets go, practically the only thing more natural than speed and jumping (and kicking distance) is height.

Certainly there are things like peripheral vision and hand-eye coordination that are somewhat natural, which would make the claim about Majak Daw dubious. But it wouldn't be dubious to say Nicky Winmar had more talent than Greg Williams, despite not being as good a footballer.

 

[DarwinRoo]

That’s not skill or talent, that’s athleticism. You don’t know shit from clay!

Yes it would be because guess who was the better kick and the better handball, Greg Williams.

 

[Teen Wolf]

That’s not skill or talent, that’s athleticism. You don’t know s**t from clay!

Yes it would be because guess who was the better kick and the better handball, Greg Williams.

Woah, angry. I hope somebody comes to the rescue and insists you be nicer. This thread is supposed to be a sanctuary.

Anyway. Natural athleticism = talent.

Accurate kicking and handballing is largely a result of practice. Not natural. Therefore less about talent, more to do with work ethic and having good coaches.

Very simple stuff, but I'm happy to have educated you.

 

[Mav]

Take up your grievances with Oxford, Cambridge, etc.
Y

As far as football assets go, practically the only thing more natural than speed and jumping (and kicking distance) is height.

Certainly there are things like peripheral vision and hand-eye coordination that are somewhat natural, which would make the claim about Majak Daw dubious. But it wouldn't be dubious to say Nicky Winmar had more talent than Greg Williams, despite not being as good a footballer.

your problem is you are ignoring the talents that Garner was born with while saying other skills are born talents. Garners clean hands and ability to read the play is more natural than long kicking, a skill that is learnt.

I get what you are saying, any player at the elite level is talented, and the best of the best work hard to develop their talents. But to say Garner is less talented than King is just plain ridiculous.

 

[Mav]

anyway, enough of this rubbish.

Anyone thinking of coming over for the game in Adelaide to watch the talented Garner in action may also want to check out Harvest Rock Festival that is on the same weekend. Should be a cracker.

Lineup - Harvest Rock

harvestrock.com

 

[King Corey]

Ok here's my colloquial summary of the word "talent" in a football sense.

#1 Very good use of the body (beyond "gym" strength) to outposition opponents, find best position in a contest, create space from congestion. eg Wayne Carey.

#2 Faster than average movements and recovery during high pressure situations. eg Kosi Pickett.

#3 Very fast and smart assessment and execution of options under pressure. eg Harry Sheezel.

#4 Exceptional hand/eye coordination. eg Adrian McAdam

#5 Outright explosive athletic abilities - acceleration, power, vertical leap. eg Patrick Dangerfield.

I'd argue Jasmine Garner puts forward strong arguments as being gifted in categories #1 #2 #3 #4 and doubt she's a slouch in #5, but she doesn't have to demonstrate that as much because she's in winning situations based on her other attributes most of the time.

 

[Teen Wolf]

your problem is you are ignoring the talents that Garner was born with while saying other skills are born talents. Garners clean hands and ability to read the play is more natural than long kicking, a skill that is learnt.

I get what you are saying, any player at the elite level is talented, and the best of the best work hard to develop their talents. But to say Garner is less talented than King is just plain ridiculous.

Emma King has excellent hands as well, and her tap work in the ruck shows tremendous ability to read the play. She was always considered a supreme talent by literal talent scouts, hence why she was the no.1 draft pick in 2015 and a marquee signing in 2016 (whereas Garner went 86th in the draft).

It's more likely that Emma King has not developed her game (while looking extremely lackadaisical) since 2019 at anything like the rate Garner has, and that is what is causing the misplaced outrage.

Ok here's my colloquial summary of the word "talent" in a football sense.

#1 Very good use of the body (beyond "gym" strength) to outposition opponents, find best position in a contest, create space from congestion. eg Wayne Carey.

#2 Faster than average movements and recovery during high pressure situations. eg Kosi Pickett.

#3 Very fast and smart assessment and execution of options under pressure. eg Harry Sheezel.

#4 Exceptional hand/eye coordination. eg Adrian McAdam

#5 Outright explosive athletic abilities - acceleration, power, vertical leap. eg Patrick Dangerfield.

I'd argue Jasmine Garner puts forward strong arguments as being gifted in categories #1 #2 #3 #4 and doubt she's a slouch in #5, but she doesn't have to demonstrate that as much because she's in winning situations based on her other attributes most of the time.

I disagree with your definition but, even if we were to go with it, you just made an airtight case for why players like Molloy and Antonio have more talent (seeing as they check all 5 of your boxes emphatically).

 

[Sillygit]

 

[Mav]

Emma King has excellent hands as well, and her tap work in the ruck shows tremendous ability to read the play. She was always considered a supreme talent by literal talent scouts, hence why she was the no.1 draft pick in 2015 and a marquee signing in 2016 (whereas Garner went 86th in the draft).

It's more likely that Emma King has not developed her game (while looking extremely lackadaisical) since 2019 at anything like the rate Garner has, and that is what is causing the misplaced outrage.



I disagree with your definition but, even if we were to go with it, you just made an airtight case for why players like Molloy and Antonio have more talent (seeing as they check all 5 of your boxes emphatically).

Tap work is not reading the play, it's a learnt skill. I know, I've been teaching my daughter all year. She's know the number 1 tap ruck in A grade Amo's.

King has been playing football all her life. To say she has natural talent is ignoring the fact she has been working on her craft since she was 8 years old. She went number 1 because of all the hard work she did as a junior. You cant have it both ways.

 

[Teen Wolf]

anyway, enough of this rubbish.

Yet you keep replying. I'm sorry this actual talk about football isn't as riveting as "Amy Smith sucks"; "nah you suck, Ash Riddell turns it over sometimes too"... never mind 4-letter replies and lame gifs.

Tap work is not reading the play, it's a learnt skill. I know, I've been teaching my daughter all year. She's know the number 1 tap ruck in A grade Amo's.

Reading the play = Judging where the ball is going to be, which is essential in ruck contests, given it involves quickly assessing the height and direction of the umpire's throw. While that can be improved with practice, the best exponents seem to have a natural gift for it, as natural as Bradman picking up the length of a delivery faster than other batsmen.

She went number 1 because of all the hard work she did as a junior. You cant have it both ways.

Recruiters have it both ways all the time. The more natural talent a player has, the more bad habits etc they are willing to overlook.

 

[Mav]

Yet you keep replying. I'm sorry this actual talk about football isn't as riveting as "Amy Smith sucks"; "nah you suck, Ash Riddell turns it over sometimes too"... never mind 4-letter replies and lame gifs.


Reading the play = Judging where the ball is going to be, which is essential in ruck contests, given it involves quickly assessing the height and direction of the umpire's throw. While that can be improved with practice, the best exponents seem to have a natural gift for it, as natural as Bradman picking up the length of a delivery faster than other batsmen.


Recruiters have it both ways all the time. The more natural talent a player has, the more bad habits etc they are willing to overlook.

I keep replying cause you ignored my comment…enough of this shit.

To say judging where the ump throws the ball is a kin to reading the play has to be the stupidest thing I have ever read.

Simpson dig up gif.

Recruiters have it both ways?? That has nothing to do with my point. You are saying King was born with more talent, judged on where she went in the draft and how she now plays. Yet I pointed out King has been playing since she was 8. Garner gave up footy when she was young but came back to it. This shows Garner has more natural talent than King.

You had a decent point to make, but you have made yourself look like a right fool in trying to get it across.

Your comments are no better than Amy Smith sucks.