Autopsy North v Hawthorn post match thread. - Rd 3, 2019

[giantroo]

Probably won't get posted due to Whately dedicating half the segment to Carlton.

I literally despise that devious little prick.

Has now. Audio below:

From 1 minute in to 4.40 in




https://player.whooshkaa.com/episode?id=357455

 

[Jasemon]

Something that I noted yesterday.

I think the major issue with BBB at the moment and why sides have worked him out so easily over the last 9-12 months is a symptom of perhaps his greatest strength. Commentators of the game have always noted how impossible Benny was to stop because of how he meets the ball at its highest point. A 200cm giant with a high leap, arms outstretched impossible to stop.

Unfortunately when his arms are outstretched the way he flies for his marks they're as vulnerable as a branch in the wind. Whether it's body on body or a clever arm chop or body check he does not have the strength in his hands, and most importantly his arms to hold most of these marks, because he doesn't know how to use his body in a contested situation. The way that Waite used to use his bum to protect his space when flying for a mark, the way most No. 1 forwards use their size to advantage, Ben just doesn't have it. I think he needs to taper back a little his greatest strength, mix it up and work on different ways to mark the ball in a contested situation. Time and time again he does the same thing and doesn't really appear to learn from what is clearly not working for him. He does not have the mongrel or the cunning that is required. Perhaps a symptom of his desire to be one of the nice guys. That's not essentially a criticism. There should be more of them. Just not our full forward who we need cleaning up defenders and kicking loads of goals.

It also doesn't help that his confidence appears to be at an all time low. He's even missing shots at goal now that he would normally kick in his sleep. A symptom of the fact he's consistently double teamed and we don't have a forward line without him.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

Something that I noted yesterday.

I think the major issue with BBB at the moment and why sides have worked him out so easily over the last 9-12 months is a symptom of perhaps his greatest strength. Commentators of the game have always noted how impossible Benny was to stop because of how he meets the ball at its highest point. A 200cm giant with a high leap, arms outstretched impossible to stop.

Unfortunately when his arms are outstretched the way he flies for his marks they're as vulnerable as a branch in the wind. Whether it's body on body or a clever arm chop or body check he does not have the strength in his hands, and most importantly his arms to hold most of these marks, because he doesn't know how to use his body in a contested situation. The way that Waite used to use his bum to protect his space when flying for a mark, the way most No. 1 forwards use their size to advantage, Ben just doesn't have it. I think he needs to taper back a little his greatest strength, mix it up and work on different ways to mark the ball in a contested situation. Time and time again he does the same thing and doesn't really appear to learn from what is clearly not working for him. He does not have the mongrel or the cunning that is required. Perhaps a symptom of his desire to be one of the nice guys. That's not essentially a criticism. There should be more of them. Just not our full forward who we need cleaning up defenders and kicking loads of goals.

It also doesn't help that his confidence appears to be at an all time low. He's even missing shots at goal now that he would normally kick in his sleep. A symptom of the fact he's consistently double teamed and we don't have a forward line without him.

The thing that stands out for me the most with BBB and his obvious lack of confidence is his regular playing for free kicks in a marking contest. It's almost at a point where this is his preferred option. When he was at his best, he was attacking the marking contest 100% and not giving a thought for anything else.

I think our predictability going forward is largely responsible for this because BBB as a result, constantly finds himself being double or triple teamed.

Whether we think he's ready or not, Larkey has to come in to provide another option. In addition, we need to take our single minded focus off Ben for a while when going forward and take every opportunity to hit up other targets.

When we do go to Brown, the ball needs to be kicked to him so he can run and jump at it, not just kicked on his head.

 

[benbanjo]

is Larkey still 93kg? or has he put on a bit?
it's pretty skinny for his height, however it's not that bad..

 

[Contra Mundum]

I walked out with ten minutes to go. I am so indifferent now I am not even angry.

 

[Billy Not Really]

I walked out with ten minutes to go. I am so indifferent now I am not even angry.

Alot of people did, almost every single one of them North supporters. They weren't angry neither, they just seemed used to it.

I shudder to think what the amount even was that turned up, it can't be good.

 

[Black2Blue]

On the Benny Brown chatter, the stat kept appearing on the scoreboard showing he was our only real forward target. But there was almost never a small at his feet. One time he was facing 3 against 1 and I wondered how the small forwards were being instructed. Imagine coach saying: "Hey young Simpkin, our mids are gunna kick to Benny, so you just stay close to him". Only time I saw crumbing was from Campbell after BBB's marking attempt. Got mown down of course. As much as we need a crumber up forward, we need a plan to crumb.

Next vent. The centre square set up. I kept visualising Ahern in there taking advantage of the space and winning us clearances. But no, the ease we are beaten became almost ludicrous. I mean if Ahern is in the 2s because of his lack of defensive game while our defensively-minded mids are just chasing tail, then what's the point. Blind Freddy has shown that the new centre square set up is more attacking creative types. It's Russian roulette and we've got one of our most creative players serving oranges at quarter time breaks. Beyond stupid.

Final vent. Jeez we've become the most boring team to watch. Biggest highlights were probably Turner's tackle and LDUs tricks. But where are the big marks, outrageous goals, torpedoes, sidesteps and dummies. Kick sideways, mark, short option, turnover, chase, win back, maybe get a passage through the middle, hopeful kick to BBB, rinse and repeat. Dull, boring, middle of the road footy. If you think about the adventurous passage of play that won the Eagles the grannie last year, our team simply doesn't have that in them these days. We play as automatons and it's boring me shitless.

 

[Heaps of fun]

Alot of people did, almost every single one of them North supporters. They weren't angry neither, they just seemed used to it.

I shudder to think what the amount even was that turned up, it can't be good.

Wow, Scott is even turning the supporters into a bunch of fairweather softies

 

[FlyHigh18]

I have replays of that Atley > Bailey > Atley > Bailey > Ziebull play in my head

 

[Waynesworld]

Of course the reason Daw didn't play before that was because we had Petrie & Waite. I think it's reasonable to say that we appear to have a serious issue identifying capability and getting it into the team because we are very, very conservative with dropping senior players.

Daw, wasn't doing enough to justify replacing any of Petrie, Waite, Brown, etc. until they moved him into a defensive role.

Larkey won't give us what Campbell does in terms of a big body down the lines, and including him (even maybe at the expense of Wood) and Campbell makes us too slow and tall.

No one wants Brown rucking, Larkey can't (we saw that in the JLT), Benny Mackay can't when in a Key back position so doesn't leave us with a lot of options (that is until Zurhaar gets back).

 

[I Want To Believe]

Look at the positives.

Sportsbet pay out if North are up by 2 goals in any quarter. I’ve raked it in last 2 weeks.

Odds will be great again this week and we’re sure to come out firing only to piss it away again. I don’t think opposition teams even care if we’re up by 4 or 5 goals at quarter time .

 

[mouncey2franklin]

https://www.afl.build001.aflprod.com/news/2019-04-07/prickly-scott-wont-deliver-a-head-on-a-platter

Not sure if this has been posted earlier, accurate article posted on the afl website. LMac and simkin are now being questioned by the media.

Damning stat in that piece:

North Melbourne isn't young or inexperienced, either, with this week's team ranking fifth for career matches and average age.

Oh dear.

 

[shintemaster]

Daw, wasn't doing enough to justify replacing any of Petrie, Waite, Brown, etc. until they moved him into a defensive role.

Not the way I remember 2016. Petrie was cooked for most of the year and Daw - while not smashing it - was doing fine from very limited opportunities. End of the year Petrie is gone and we sign Daw on a long term deal with little idea how he would perform. In fact, given we moved him back we had no idea where we would play him. We should have been in a position to make an educated decision at the end of 2016 rather than a hopeful one. We just won't push established players out of the team during a season without massive and exceptional circumstances.

 

[mouncey2franklin]

One thing I do think is often missed when assessing the Brad Scott era is that if Ben Brown kicks straight in the first half of the 2015 Prelim then you are playing in the Grand Final. And that's certainly wasn't the fault of the coaches

The stats say he kicked 1.1 for the match.

Petrie kicked 0.2
Waite kicked 0.2
Harvey kicked 0.1

Why are you picking on Sideshow?

 

[giantroo]

Coaches votes

HAWTHORN v NORTH MELBOURNE
8 Luke Breust (HAW)
8 Jaeger O'Meara (HAW)
6 Ben Cunnington (NMFC)
5 Ricky Henderson (HAW)
3 Shaun Higgins (NMFC)

 

[shintemaster]

Coaches votes

HAWTHORN v NORTH MELBOURNE
8 Luke Breust (HAW)
8 Jaeger O'Meara (HAW)
6 Ben Cunnington (NMFC)
5 Ricky Henderson (HAW)
3 Shaun Higgins (NMFC)

Second year in a row Breust has been the top vote collector on the ground for Hawthorn from memory. Would have thought we might learn from the first time.

 

[Heaps of fun]

Coaches votes

HAWTHORN v NORTH MELBOURNE
8 Luke Breust (HAW)
8 Jaeger O'Meara (HAW)
6 Ben Cunnington (NMFC)
5 Ricky Henderson (HAW)
3 Shaun Higgins (NMFC)

McEvoy stiff.

 

[MightyHawks]

The stats say he kicked 1.1 for the match.

Petrie kicked 0.2
Waite kicked 0.2
Harvey kicked 0.1

Why are you picking on Sideshow?

Sorry if my memory serves my incorrectly but the way I remember it he stuffed up 3 goals in the second quarter - did they go out on the full or did he drop easy marks or something?

 

[koshari]

I have replays of that Atley > Bailey > Atley > Bailey > Ziebull play in my head

you obviously like beating yourself up, either than or you have a penchant for slapstick comedy. Scott playing the abbott/straight man role and Atley doing his best Costello/sidekick stooge routine.

 

[ferball]

you obviously like beating yourself up, either than or you have a penchant for slapstick comedy. Scott playing the abbott/straight man role and Atley doing his best Costello/sidekick stooge routine.

It needs the Benny Hill theme doesn't it.

 

[HBFlanker]

I have replays of that Atley > Bailey > Atley > Bailey > Ziebull play in my head

It was almost like Scott had to come in to save Atley because he was shitting himself. One has played 3 games, the other nearly 200. FMD

 

[ariano]

The cost of Garner vs. the cost of Scully is very different. Garner also had a season where he looked to be over his injuries. We need his type. We don't need Scully. Maybe before Polec, Hall, and Scott but it'd be pure luxury. We have far more pressing matters.

The fact is, it's a similar situation to Hannebery. St Kilda took the risk and it has back fired. No one else wanted to take it. Hawthorn took the risk with Scully and after two games it looks alright (he filled a need there). It's easy to pot the club thanks to how it played out but it was the smart thing to do. If it didn't pay off 99% of posters in here would be throwing club officials under the bus and saying "don't we have enough injury prone players!"

This is exactly like your comments around a CHB and ruck for the VFL team. Short-sighted and not weighing up all the variables.

 

[goalieboy82]

too soon for this:

 

[King Corey]

Sorry if my memory serves my incorrectly but the way I remember it he stuffed up 3 goals in the second quarter - did they go out on the full or did he drop easy marks or something?

Good memory. He dropped a lot of gettable marks to the point he focused on marking over that preseason and came out much improved in 2016.

 

[MightyHawks]

Good memory. He dropped a lot of gettable marks to the point he focused on marking over that preseason and came out much improved in 2016.

I was cheering for North at the time so was rather disappointed.