Not fashionable to say here but Kelly is at least fast and competitive.
Does not get beaten one on one too often.
Walter’s will kick 10 today now!
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VFL Northern Bullants v Essendon - Saturday 3 August, 2:05pm, Genis Steel Oval
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Does not get beaten one on one too often.
Walter’s will kick 10 today now!
ant555
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Agree he looked like he was cooked after quarter time . All I was saying is he was 1000% better last week . This week he was okay in the first quarter but after that he was nowhere. I agree Kako plays with more speed and intent consistently .
You know full well you do not make a judgment on one game. I am not sold on Jayden but his previous 4 weeks have been a mile in front of what he did yesterday. He has had a poor start to the season. Played pretty well recently but was crap yesterday and he would not be guaranteed anything next year. I would say he is maybe 20/80 as far as making it. Has the skills and speed but he has not had the effort or competitiveness in a lot of games.
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ant555
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Not sure how much we can take away from this game. Lot of easy footy at times.
Tsatas - was good . He is very good in close . Kicking was okay. He has eliminated the real horrible stuff by going by hand in close when he can and is getting better contact on his longer kicking . Does not look like he is trying to kick the cover off the footy. Still kicks just as many floating punts as he does drop punts but it is better.
Hobbs - inside game as good as ever. Just does not have much on the outside other than finding a little space. Reason he is not in the side is Caldwell and Durham have better outside games.
Wiedeman - did not really have to do a lot. Couple of mistakes but he did what he had to.
Setterfield - lots of the footy and lots of tackles. Good game . Like Hobbs just lacks the outside game and how many inside midfielders can we play ?
Perkins - had some good moments but also times where he was just floating around . Thought he could have done more over the whole game.
Goldstein - dominated the hit outs as you would expect. Okay around the ground.
Hayes - played well but it was not a day that he would be challenged by a big KPF .
Hind - was not as good as last week. Did what he had to .
Wright - numbers looked okay but he should have dominated that defense . Dropped a few easy ones early .
Lual - he just makes too many mistakes . Does a few really good things but poor skill errors or simply ball watching hurts.
J Davey - first quarter was okay but was horrible after that . No impact after quarter time. Looked cooked.
Visentini - took a few very good marks. Unlike Wright he looks like he has sticky hands. Plenty of work to do on building up the physical strength but he looks to have a decent footy brain and his skills are okay.
Wanganeen - looks really good when he takes the game on and uses it by foot . Has to tidy up the handball as it was average . Also has to transition into defense a bit quicker once his part of the play is done.
Tsatas - was good . He is very good in close . Kicking was okay. He has eliminated the real horrible stuff by going by hand in close when he can and is getting better contact on his longer kicking . Does not look like he is trying to kick the cover off the footy. Still kicks just as many floating punts as he does drop punts but it is better.
Hobbs - inside game as good as ever. Just does not have much on the outside other than finding a little space. Reason he is not in the side is Caldwell and Durham have better outside games.
Wiedeman - did not really have to do a lot. Couple of mistakes but he did what he had to.
Setterfield - lots of the footy and lots of tackles. Good game . Like Hobbs just lacks the outside game and how many inside midfielders can we play ?
Perkins - had some good moments but also times where he was just floating around . Thought he could have done more over the whole game.
Goldstein - dominated the hit outs as you would expect. Okay around the ground.
Hayes - played well but it was not a day that he would be challenged by a big KPF .
Hind - was not as good as last week. Did what he had to .
Wright - numbers looked okay but he should have dominated that defense . Dropped a few easy ones early .
Lual - he just makes too many mistakes . Does a few really good things but poor skill errors or simply ball watching hurts.
J Davey - first quarter was okay but was horrible after that . No impact after quarter time. Looked cooked.
Visentini - took a few very good marks. Unlike Wright he looks like he has sticky hands. Plenty of work to do on building up the physical strength but he looks to have a decent footy brain and his skills are okay.
Wanganeen - looks really good when he takes the game on and uses it by foot . Has to tidy up the handball as it was average . Also has to transition into defense a bit quicker once his part of the play is done.
Who stays on the list out of those you’ve mentioned here? A few here are questioning Wanganeen, Lual, Hayes and Davey. I think they all have legit qualities to persevere with. Hind will probably go somewhere else. Time’s up for Weid, Goldy, and ?? Setterfield?
ant555
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Weideman and Goldstein are done with us .
Weideman could offer someone decent back up as a defender .
Hind is probably done given he has been in and out of the side .
Setterfield is borderline . He was part of the 22 early but his average skills and outside game limit him to be only really effective inside .
I think Wanganeen may be done. He has simply missed too much footy and we can not put him on the rookie list again.
J Davey has the skills and ability but his desire and competitiveness has been questionable at times and yesterday he did not look fit.
Lual makes too many skill errors at the moment but he will get next year.
Hayes should be pressing for selection next year . I was one who said early this year that he may only play 2 or 3 games if any.
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With Setterfield I wonder what he would look like in that Stringer/Cripps/Bont Mid/6th Forward role.
He’s got good size and a decent mark when the least defended forward.
Seems like the thinking with him is Defensive mid = rotate to wing/Defence which is the traditional rotation. But given his skillset is more holding space then spreading I would be interested to see how he goes closer to goal
He’s got good size and a decent mark when the least defended forward.
Seems like the thinking with him is Defensive mid = rotate to wing/Defence which is the traditional rotation. But given his skillset is more holding space then spreading I would be interested to see how he goes closer to goal
Zach Package
Prespakis2Tsatas
Of the mature fringe players Setterfield absolutely has the most merit in terms of a list spot next year.
Effort will never be questioned, he’s still the only defensively minded mid on the list, he takes a bit of the physical heat off the younger midfielders in the twos and a combination of him and a decent ruck means the VFL is eternally competitive, so you can actually get enough ball into the forward line to develop your forwards rather than getting pumped with no ball going inside 50.
If it was up to me he’d be seniors every week but being the best player in the VFL is also a positive outcome.
Effort will never be questioned, he’s still the only defensively minded mid on the list, he takes a bit of the physical heat off the younger midfielders in the twos and a combination of him and a decent ruck means the VFL is eternally competitive, so you can actually get enough ball into the forward line to develop your forwards rather than getting pumped with no ball going inside 50.
If it was up to me he’d be seniors every week but being the best player in the VFL is also a positive outcome.
Hypothetically, could we put Jayden/lual onto the rookie list and move Tex to the senior list?
It seems like Tex has a lot of what we
miss/need off the HB line(some speed,class,can make something happen)and has had 2-3 good months under his belt.
Seems a shame to have put a couple of years into him just to delist as he MIGHT start getting somewhere.
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They did just change the rookie rules so that players no longer have to be promoted or delisted after three years; it's now up to five. Can't stay on the rookie list though if they've played more than 10 games by the end of their fourth season.
So Tex can be kept on the rookie list next year if the club likes.
So Tex can be kept on the rookie list next year if the club likes.
I thought that might be the case. He is the perfect example of the type of player who can benefit from such a sensible yet simple ruling.
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The only ones who really put there hand up for senior selection was Setterfield. The rest were simply padding on an easy opposition. Would not begrudge Scott for going with very few changes at the selection table
May be underselling Hobbs' impact but Setterfield in a similar role was much more influential on the match.
(in terms of disposals for mine)
Setterfield - A clear best on. Easily. Won it both inside and out. As has been mentioned just gets the job done. Would be terrific depth for another year if he were offered another year not the list
Ben Hobbs - A so-so game. Showed flashes of brilliance but often a really workmanlike game from the young man. Not sure he did enough or had enough influence on the match to demand selection in a midfield that has been going ok
Elijah Tsatas - Similar to Hobbs, did well to win lots of footy but the impact was low. Skills were passable when keeping it simple. Wouldn't mind him continuing this development path for the rest of the year if Scott believes it.
Nick Hind - Gees' hes frustrating. You really want to like him for how much he takes the game on but often he leaves team mates in a poorer position. Several times he sold team mates into trouble with poor decisions. Still, I like what the energiser bunny does but geez he is frustrating.
Archie Perkins - Another with a so-so game. Should have had 3 + but kicking let him down. Did enough to influence the game but didn't dominate playing a more fwd than mid role.
Tex Wanganeen - Im not sold on this experiment. Maybe ive seen enough. Fumbly, decision making can be sub par but what he does do well is magical. Someone who could be a difference maker on a wet preliminary final night.
Lewis Hayes - Was really solid without being dominant. Just did what was needed.
Peter Wright 3 goals 2 behinds for a bloke who could have had 6+ if he didn't have concrete hands. I wouldn't be opposed to him having another week in the VFL
Sam Weidemann - Passable but nothing special.
Todd Goldstein - see above
Vigo Visentini - Showed some good signs before fading late
Luamon Lual - I don't see it. Gets lost in defence, little defence when in attack. Has some qualities (big, can take a mark etc) but is inconsistent as hell
Jayden Davey - Echo the sentiments from Ant. Had a really quiet time of it Not a great day
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Of the VFL guys,
Matt Foley - was exceptionally good at winning the ball. Kicking is a little below the level but I like him.
Bailey Scott - Such a weird player. Looks laconic but then you check the stats and he's had high teens.
Cam Nyko - Had it a few times but looked fatigued due to the long season.
Jackson Hately - playing almost exclusively as a forward has been a good coaching move. 4 goals in last 2 weeks. Not sure he gets a go at the next level ala a Ben Keays type but a solid foot soldier at this level.
Oskar Smartt - A nice return to form for the one time mid season aspirant. 3 goals all from different types showed he does have tricks. I like him but would like to see him do this for more than one game.
Jobe Shanahan - The Coates Talent League overages showed some tricks. Took a nice contested mark and kicked truly. Showed forward craft with his leading lanes and was rewarded wit h4 on the day
Matt Foley - was exceptionally good at winning the ball. Kicking is a little below the level but I like him.
Bailey Scott - Such a weird player. Looks laconic but then you check the stats and he's had high teens.
Cam Nyko - Had it a few times but looked fatigued due to the long season.
Jackson Hately - playing almost exclusively as a forward has been a good coaching move. 4 goals in last 2 weeks. Not sure he gets a go at the next level ala a Ben Keays type but a solid foot soldier at this level.
Oskar Smartt - A nice return to form for the one time mid season aspirant. 3 goals all from different types showed he does have tricks. I like him but would like to see him do this for more than one game.
Jobe Shanahan - The Coates Talent League overages showed some tricks. Took a nice contested mark and kicked truly. Showed forward craft with his leading lanes and was rewarded wit h4 on the day
Great summary.
Shanahan is only top age I believe.
Smart has much more ability than Jye Menzies.
He reminds me of Jamie Elliot with some of his speed and power.
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I don't think Smartt is quick, relies on his IQ to get in the right places. Id have him over Menzie
Nicholas61
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Reckon he has a bit of Mihocek about him? Not an athlete but a competitor and smart footballer.
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Just what we need. Another 3rd tall
Nicholas61
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Not saying we need him but the bits I saw that's the type he seemed. Good debut and if he keeps that up someone will have a proper look.
Red Black and Blue
Brownlow Medallist
Foley and Smart do not have physical growth left in them, they are mostly the products they will be in 5 years. I'm not interested in them even if they are slightly more productive now than a few of our rawer prospects.
I don't think Lual was playing a small forward role, so wasn't judging him on his ability to look like a live wire. He was a medium lead up, found himself a lot of space, not unlike Langford when he was first moved forward. His skills were poor but he had 5-6 possessions with time inside 50 which is promising. Didn't say he was better than anyone, just that he was promising, which he was for one of his first games ever playing forward.
Tex had more than flashes, 6 score involvements off half back, Martin is close to the most attacking half back in the comp and he averages 5.1, our next highest is Redman with 3.11. He's not afraid to hit angles, he's not kicking it into the man on the mark like half our senior defenders, he's taking it forward with every possession. His tank needs work still but he is producing enough clean ball to be more deserving than some of our turnover merchants are AFL level.
Nyko is raw still but he reminds me of VFL Durham. His side step is elite, his natural physicality is better than a stack of our senior players, a Maynard lite. The type of player that could be anything given a few preseasons.
I'm not advocating for us to pick up Hately, but he has clearly taken a large step forward over what he produced at Crows and GWS, if he improves 5% over what he is currently, he will be very draftable again.
I'm not looking for these guys like Lual, Nyko, Tex to be complete players now, but that they show enough AFL attributes that by the time they are 22 they can have exponential growth like Durham.
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Great response.
I think you are reaching in your evaluation but acknowledge the thought and analysis.
Tex couldn’t out run Goodman from kicking a goal how does that translate to the AFL?
Mykonos showed no explosiveness in his running which Durham has always displayed.
Smart is the same age as lual and I do not know how you could say he has less physical growth.
The biggest reason he is not on a list is his lack of dedication and willingness to prepare off the field.
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The worry, re Tex, is how dumbly he is when under pressure. For a half back he does all the fun attacking things well but the other stuff is my worry. Fumble, loses position easily and often struggles to work back.
Lual is the other when behind the ball gets sucked up ball watching. He has a lot of strong physical attributes but putting it all together is the concern. Moving him forward seems like a desperate attempt to get him involved in the play.
fwiw, of the (constant) VFL guys I would have them as draft ales in this order;
1. Cam Nyko
2. Matt Foley
3. Will Hoare
4. Jarrod Eckersley
5. Jackson Hatley
Red Black and Blue
Brownlow Medallist
For mine I didn't find Tex fumbly. The times he did I thought 99% of players would have in the same position. Bobbling ball in the mud pit at finger tip range and still kept it in front of himself and gathered cleanly on the second attempt. Didn't consider any of them unforced errors.
Lual is definitely a longer stretch to make it, but I doubt they would have expected him to be much more advanced that he is. Always likely to be 2 year project to see what happens.
- May 6, 2007
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The dumbly bit is just an observation of his year. When he is up and going full of confidence he can be a 1-touch player. Saturday’s conditions certainly didn’t help his cause.
Im not sold on Lual and see him in the bottom 10 on the list at the moment. Will watch him come on over the next 15 months crosses fingers
Red Black and Blue
Brownlow Medallist
Reaching for sure but for a reason, we've drafted far too many limited players over the year off production and then act shocked when they can't produce against more mobile and competitive athletes.
Smartt was already 84kgs at draft age, I don't see where the growth comes from, while his footy brain is good, his pace and dynamism just isnt there. He's a Charlie Spargo type prospect, that I just don't see the value investing in. From what I'm seeing AFL level upside as a small forward just isn't there. If he's going to make it, I'd like to see him in the guts, but even still unnecessary to what we already have, unless he becomes a Neale esque bull.
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