October Daily Punt - aka Hartnell v Winx #confirmed

[FallingLiefs]

it will be hard for anything to touch the Newmarket of BC but she will go close. i'm thinking within 1 or 2 lengths. class ratings probably make it very close given the margin.

 

[davis_756]

A lot better class of horse? He beat Zipping and Whobegotyou for gods sake, this years horses were every bit as good if not better than that field

She has gone well clear of So You Think on today's run

The field this year was running on the spot at the turn, comparable to the field pinker pinker beat at best

 

[FallingLiefs]

lol.

 

[FallingLiefs]

it's like the discussion why have our stayers gone to shit since about 1993 (hmm what happened in 1993..). nah there's just a better one's running past them now in my humble.

 

[Duritz]

The field this year was running on the spot at the turn, comparable to the field pinker pinker beat at best

So you know that they went 4.5 seconds quicker than Sacred Elixir's win 40 mins later, right?

 

[bombers21]

I remember watching Winx win the Furious stakes in 2014 and thinking "this is Wallers next Catkins"

How wrong was I? One of the best of all time

 

[davis_756]

So you know that they went 4.5 seconds quicker than Sacred Elixir's win 40 mins later, right?

Did you know Sacred Elixer ran the final 600m a second faster then Winx did? In fact 7/10 had a faster final 600m then winx did on a degrading track.

Imho it just shows how useless our stayers are, the international made it a true staying test and the entire field failed to run out the trip besides winx, she didn't fly they crawled.

 

[IKnowtheDog]

Because Winx is far superior to Sunline.

I guess you could call 'Over' Sunline's ' Gust of Wind'

I think the two of them would be pretty close

 

[FallingLiefs]

Did you know Sacred Elixer ran the final 600m a second faster then Winx did? In fact 7/10 had a faster final 600m then winx did on a degrading track.

Imho it just shows how useless our stayers are, the international made it a true staying test and the entire field failed to run out the trip besides winx, she didn't fly they crawled.

you're not going to win this one. tempo was deep in the redzone then had to punch into a breeze, deserved to slow heavily concluding stages. degrading track had nothing to do with it. world class performance and the horses behind would win a lot of cox plates.

 

[davis_756]

you're not going to win this one. tempo was deep in the redzone then had to punch into a breeze, deserved to slow heavily concluding stages. degrading track had nothing to do with it. world class performance and the horses behind would win a lot of cox plates.

There is nothing to win, you are free to believe whatever you wish.

None of the factors you listed were not present in the following race bar the tempo and if it was so high then Vadamos wouldn't have ran 4th. If 7 3 year old's can run home faster then Winx on a worse track then the rest of the field in the cox plate were plodding along like Manangatang Cup hopefuls, regardless of the tempo difference throughout that only proves none of them run a strong 2000m out bar 1 horse.

 

[FallingLiefs]

There is nothing to win, you are free to believe whatever you wish.

None of the factors you listed were not present in the following race bar the tempo and if it was so high then Vadamos wouldn't have ran 4th. If 7 3 year old's can run home faster then Winx on a worse track then the rest of the field in the cox plate were plodding along like Manangatang Cup hopefuls, regardless of the tempo difference throughout that only proves none of them run a strong 2000m out bar 1 horse.

it was that high. Vadamos was good.

 

[davis_756]

it was that high. Vadamos was good.

I'd love to see her go take on some real competition at her distance range, we don't have that in this country and haven't for a while.

 

[Duritz]

There is nothing to win, you are free to believe whatever you wish.

None of the factors you listed were not present in the following race bar the tempo and if it was so high then Vadamos wouldn't have ran 4th. If 7 3 year old's can run home faster then Winx on a worse track then the rest of the field in the cox plate were plodding along like Manangatang Cup hopefuls, regardless of the tempo difference throughout that only proves none of them run a strong 2000m out bar 1 horse.

So winxs race did the first 1440m something like 5.5 seconds faster than the 3yo's, and you're saying the tempo wasn't strong? Lol... it's about 35 lengths quicker!

 

[Lebbo73]

So winxs race did the first 1440m something like 5.5 seconds faster than the 3yo's, and you're saying the tempo wasn't strong? Lol... it's about 35 lengths quicker!

You can't talk to ****wits. Not too mention the fact that Winx was asked to go 800 to 900m from home.

 

[FallingLiefs]

So winxs race did the first 1440m something like 5.5 seconds faster than the 3yo's, and you're saying the tempo wasn't strong? Lol... it's about 35 lengths quicker!

I believe he's saying that 6 lengths sacred elixir pulled off Winx late when he was theoretically out of screen in the CP was pretty good.

If you took any other approach than speed here you might be able to mount a case even by saying a 3yo filly ran third out a historical terrible form race. But when every knowledgable person I trust is mentioning this in the same breath as the truely elite horses, your wrong.

 

[Jugada]

****ing lol at using just the last 600m splits to rubbish the field

Just ignore the first two thirds of the race if it suits your narrative better

 

[TBellicious]

Out of the three tracks in Melb I reckon Flemington would suit Winx the least.

If she does go to the Emirates, it will be intriguing.

 

[Lebbo73]

Out of the three tracks in Melb I reckon Flemington would suit Winx the least.

If she does go to the Emirates, it will be intriguing.

They will only run her if she is near her best. If this is the case it will be by how much.

 

[TBellicious]

They will only run her if she is near her best. If this is the case it will be by how much.

I am not saying she will lose. She will win, easily.

Will still be interesting watching her in the big straight at Flemington.

 

[Jugada]

Why would you think Flemington would suit her least? Id think it would suit her best. Wide open track where the best horse can generally win

 

[Jugada]

She isn't Sunline where she wants to lead and kick off a sharp bend

 

[IKnowtheDog]

Nice ride on Dee Majesty in Japanese St Leger!! Sets it a bigger task than Veandercross!!

 

[HeathySure]

SYT would have run second yesterday at his top, beaten about 4L. Which means he would've beaten the others by about 4L but he would not have been able to go with Winx.

It is without question the greatest Cox plate win in history, those who question Hartnell's ability are on another planet. He did not go to his best yesterday, didn't really handle the MV track TBH, but he was good nonetheless. On bigger tracks like Flemington and Randwick he's a different horse. His Turnbull win is its own evidence: he flew, absolutely flew, that day and Jameka flew behind him but could not keep up. She then won the CC by 4L. "Borderline G2 horse" re hartnell is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard anyone say, ever. If he peaks in the MC the race is over.

The only question remaining is have we ever had a better racehorse? The phar lap comparison is very difficult to make, so I won't do it, but I will say she's certainly the best 1600m-2400m horse of the modern era, and possibly of all time, in this country.

Is she better than BC? I haven't rated yesterday yet but she will rate around Bc's top, that much i know. A lot of Bc's wins were well below her top but her Newmarket devastation of Hay List with top weight was freakish, and she did a similar figure at Randwick.

So, at this stage I'd have them equal. However winx hasn't finished yet.

if Hartnell wins the Melbourne Cup i will never ever comment on the Big Footy Racing board again. He has no hope whatsoever. Hartnells WFA wins and horses it has beaten are mostly out of Form Waller stayers and Jameka, Jamekas WFA record is no wins no places from 2 starts, Last year Hartnell finished 5th in the Cox Plate with Pornichet, Royal Descent and Highland Reel between him, this year he was beaten 8 lengths which could have been 10 lengths so his performance was the same as last year. The horse who beat him have retired or didnt come here for the race. Hartnell has never gone close to running a track record, his overall winning times have been slowish.
The horses behind him were a 1600 metre French horse who stayed in the wrong part of the track and hang on really well, a 3 year old filly who never raced at WFA level before, Black Hart Bart who is good and honest but has never won at 2000 metres after a lot of attempts, Happy Clapper, never won af WFa, Awesome Rock a 1 time WFA winner but you can admit no star, Lucia Valentina, Happy Trails who are both a light of other days, and Hauraki, never won at WFA.
The field definitely was the worst i can remember by a long way. even 2 of the more ordinary winners in Pinker Pinker and Shamus Award both ran in much better fields with lots of group 1 and WFA winners in the field.
You are getting way carried away with Winx's win, it was sensational, but beat SYT by 4 lengths?? maybe the European SYT but no way the Bart trained one. If a fully mature Makybe Diva was in the race yesterday on that track i reckon it would have been a close race, 50/50 on who wins, on a dry track Winx would kill MD.
Shes very very good but shes racing in a totally dud era.

 

[iluvparis]

I remember watching Winx win the Furious stakes in 2014 and thinking "this is Wallers next Catkins"

How wrong was I? One of the best of all time

2014! I'd say 95% of this forum (including me) last year thought she was the biggest unders in history when she was smashed into fave in the cox plate.

They knew what they had!!!!!!

 

[iluvparis]

Out of the three tracks in Melb I reckon Flemington would suit Winx the least.

If she does go to the Emirates, it will be intriguing.

L O L - you have got to be farking kidding me mate - take a good hard look at yourself - how's she gone at randwick.

She will smash anything that comes up against here.

Laughably bad call - see my post on the night of the race - you haven't learned your lesson.

New leader in U wot m8 call of the spring