October Decisions Necessary

[sr36]

For someone who has seen every VFL game (live or on TV) and seen these guys in person, I'd like to think I have a good view of things.

Tohil - Extra year rookie list probably saves him
Sier - Trade/gone
Mayne - Retired
Cameron - Keep
Chugg - Keep. Has had some injuries this year and in the pre-season, lack of VFL with covid, deserves another year. Started to get some form last few weeks prior to lockdown.
Ginnivan - Keep. Nuff said
Madgen - Good depth. Keep
Rantall - Keep. Needs some size, was always touted as raw potential given he hadn't been in footy for very long. But can get the ball, there is something to work with here
Noble - Keep
JT - I suspect we keep but, he should look elsewhere at 30 years old.
Greenwood - Retired
Cox - Trade/Gone
Lynch - Try to keep, but I suspect he'll look for more opportunity
Pendles - Keep clearly.
Wilson - Keep/Rookie list will save him.
Ruscoe - Keep

I think we'll need to cut deeper than that in order to have enough picks for Daicos points. I think JT and Rantall are in trouble. A couple of contracted players also may be delisted and then rookied if noone else takes them, in order to create fake list spots.

 

[gouki88]

Deadly serious.
Other long term players who also have “points on the board” are being talked up as disposable.
Why is Pendles sacrosanct?
His best is behind him. He is not part of the next Premiership. He needs to be in the conversation as what we can get for him. If Sidey is worth X to GC, what is a leader like Pendles worth to GC? I would expect more. So let’s go for it.

This has been covered many times. Pendlebury is still our 2nd or 3rd best midfielder, is our captain, and has invaluable experience in preparation and training that he can impart on the youngsters.

I've only ever really advocated for trading veterans when I've been seeing red during the games. We only need to look at Hawthorn and North Melbourne. Both sacrificed their veteran leaders to move them out of the way for youth, and both clubs have been basement dwellers since. It doesn't work

 

[LarryKinn]

Greenwood- Retired
Mayne- Retired
Tohill - 4th year Rookie deal
Sier - Gone, points for Daicos
Cameron - has replaced Cox, 2 years
Chugg - 50/50
Ginnivan - 2 years
Madgen - 2 years, quality depth
Rantall - 50/50
Noble - reportedly in discussions for 2 years
Thomas - if he can't find a trade then Delist and Rookie him
Cox - Gone, hopefully points for Daicos
Lynch - Gone, points for Daicos
Pendlebury - Extend
Wilson - 4th year Rookie deal
Ruscoe - Extend 1 year

That's 5-8 spots. We have severely limited $$ and Picks handicapping us.
Daicos and (hopefully) Dib through the draft
Hope that Riccardi nominates us
Delisted free agents - Schlensog and Stengle.
Young players with a few years development in them to bridge the gap with our teenagers
Tohill and Wilson extended for the same reason
If Lynch or Sier want to stay, same thing
Anything else would mean more delistings for incoming minimal contracts.
ie. IN - Talia/Lynch/Crouch. OUT - Rantall/Chugg/Thomas

 

[peter9789]

Would happily make a few steak knives in a deal.

Purely hypothetical but we showed serious interest prior to him being drafted.

Grundy to the Suns for Rowell.

What would needed to be added to either side of the deal?

Grundy no matter what view you have of him wont be traded unless we are prepared to pay significant chunk of his salary. Suns don't need a ruckman as they have Witts who will be back from injury next season.

If we target anyone from the Suns it has to be Ben King - and we may have a crack in a year or two when his contract ends. But that is going to take a lot to get him out of the suns.

 

[Markfs]

People talk about trading senior players and never mention whether they want to go. If they are uncontracted, the offer should be on their value....and if they want to go elsewhere then facilitate a trade. Last year the club wanted treloar to go to gold coast and they weren't able to make him go. I dont know why people think Pendles or Sidebottom is going to be easier to be forced to GC. This isnt the NBA. Now is the time to fix the salary issues completely and determine those senior players who want to help rebuild the list. If Sidebottom wants to stay under that arrangement, I would keep him.

 

[Daicos Torpedo]

In - New coaches and game plan. A squad of players who can learn it very well within a season. Not one player injured. A premiership next year.
See how easy this game is...

 

[Scribe26]

Deadly serious.
Other long term players who also have “points on the board” are being talked up as disposable.
Why is Pendles sacrosanct?
His best is behind him. He is not part of the next Premiership. He needs to be in the conversation as what we can get for him. If Sidey is worth X to GC, what is a leader like Pendles worth to GC? I would expect more. So let’s go for it.

Why is our games record holder, captain, Norm Smith Medalist and 5-time Copeland winner sacrosanct?

 

[stormskye]

pendles is untouchable. Who do you want to train our next group of kids to become elite midfielders? He is invaluable on and off the field

 

[jackcass]

That's fine as long as it's for a packet of chips, money needs to go toward our future and the next window from here, he can pull a Hodgey if he wants the cash.

LOL. The contract for 2022 already exist and is fully factored into list management decisions. I’m happy for you and all the other fantasy footy types to have a say on what he (and others) can earn if he (and all the others) get reciprocal rights on your pay.

 

[JLC]

I agree with you JLC but the harsh reality is Jamie will not still be playing when we win our next flag and if his transfer will net us a young but established KPF/D then although deeply saddened I would understand and accept the club's decision.

I can understand that point of view. In the forward line, we need some sort of leadership from one of our forwards.

But that’s because a fair few players have around 0…15 games of experience …

Rantall
Bianco
Keane
Wilson
Lynch
Macrae
Kelly
Ruscoe
McInnis
Poulter
Murphy
McMahon
McCreery
Ginnivan
Chugg
Henry
Begg
Johnson
Tohill

This time next year many of those very same players will have around 15…30 games experience plus an extra pre-season under their belt.

Add to that the additional players in the sub 50 game category who are still learning their craft …

Quaynor
T.Brown
Noble
Cameron
Madgen

Surely that’s a list that’s projected to naturally get getter?

And yet we have salary cap issues lol

I think we need to quickly work out who will make it and who won’t. Its one thing to have lots of kids, that part is easy. The hard part is having quality kids.

Grundy no matter what view you have of him wont be traded unless we are prepared to pay significant chunk of his salary. Suns don't need a ruckman as they have Witts who will be back from injury next season.

If we target anyone from the Suns it has to be Ben King - and we may have a crack in a year or two when his contract ends. But that is going to take a lot to get him out of the suns.

People talk about trading senior players and never mention whether they want to go. If they are uncontracted, the offer should be on their value....and if they want to go elsewhere then facilitate a trade. Last year the club wanted treloar to go to gold coast and they weren't able to make him go. I dont know why people think Pendles or Sidebottom is going to be easier to be forced to GC. This isnt the NBA. Now is the time to fix the salary issues completely and determine those senior players who want to help rebuild the list. If Sidebottom wants to stay under that arrangement, I would keep him.

You cannot let the tail wag the dog.

Pendles should stay as he is a model citizen on and off field and can lease the next midfield.

Sidey is on too much coin and should be moved on first. Stagger the exits like Hawthorn did. GC lifestyle wise would be nice and they would probably offer him a more long term deal.

I dare say people would have been angry when the initial trade to land Nathan Buckley from Brisbane was first announced. Luckily big footy was not around then. Might have melted down.

 

[Rebuilder]

LOL. The contract for 2022 already exist and is fully factored into list management decisions. I’m happy for you and all the other fantasy footy types to have a say on what he (and others) can earn if he (and all the others) get reciprocal rights on your pay.

What the hell is a fantasy footy type? Do you mean wearing my Collingwood guernsey and pretending to kick the winning goal in a Grand Final? Coz I'm pretty happy about that too if I'm being honest, brings me a lot of joy, as for Pendles contract do you know how much it is? Or is that the one detail not fully factored into your fantasy post?

 

[jonmacTrag]

From JLC
Quote ...
I can understand that point of view. In the forward line, we need some sort of leadership from one of our forwards.

No argument the forward line needs leadership - but with proper forward line coaching a single leader shouldn't be necessary.

Look at our last flag team

Clokey . . . Anvil . . . Dawsey and Daic's the highlights - none of them 'The general'.

It can be done and can actually be better to have a tight 'unit' who play for each other than 1 target with bit part players.

 

[Rebuilder]

pendles is untouchable.

That's his basketball background.

 

[JLC]

From JLC
Quote ...
I can understand that point of view. In the forward line, we need some sort of leadership from one of our forwards.

No argument the forward line needs leadership - but with proper forward line coaching a single leader shouldn't be necessary.

Look at our last flag team

Clokey . . . Anvil . . . Dawsey and Daic's the highlights - none of them 'The general'.

It can be done and can actually be better to have a tight 'unit' who play for each other than 1 target with bit part players.

fair point.

 

[JLC]

LOL. The contract for 2022 already exist and is fully factored into list management decisions. I’m happy for you and all the other fantasy footy types to have a say on what he (and others) can earn if he (and all the others) get reciprocal rights on your pay.

The important part is that these were not factored in by GW? They were all prior to his arrival?

GW has every right to change direction.

 

[jonmacTrag]

The important part is that these were not factored in by GW? They were all prior to his arrival?

GW has every right to change direction.

Wrighty seem to me to be a man of very strong opinions and not likely to be easily swayed. He will have a definite 'program' mapped out and I'm sure the club will have been kept up to speed.
Things should pop this trade and free agency period no matter what some so-called experts think.

 

[Markfs]

Sidey is on too much coin and should be moved on first. Stagger the exits like Hawthorn did. GC lifestyle wise would be nice and they would probably offer him a more long term deal.

Sidebottom, as we know, became a father last year. He sold his home earlier this year to move closer to his family..... so he did that a few months ago. Does that sound like a guy who is going to move to GC?

Sam Mitchell took his wife and kids to perth a few years back to transition into a long term career of coaching. I doubt he could have sold it to his wife on the basis that he just wanted another year of footy.

If we've learnt anything with the treloar trade, we should have learnt that there's more to trading than just moving the magnets.

 

[jackcass]

The important part is that these were not factored in by GW? They were all prior to his arrival?

GW has every right to change direction.

He does. I'm sure any changes will be reflected in the 2023 and beyond contract offer.

 

[76woodenspooners]

And yet we have salary cap issues lol

I know, right?!

We don’t really know if we have salary cap issues …

… according to Ed after last trade period, we’re the best 4-5 in the league as far as salary cap position goes. According to Wright we still have work to do on the salary cap. Obviously those two things aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive. But Wright isn’t stupid. To advertise to the league (especially to player managers) that ‘The Bank of Collingwood is overflowing with cash and is open for business’ probably wouldn’t be the smartest thing to do.

Let’s see what happens in the trade period.

 

[jackcass]

What the hell is a fantasy footy type? Do you mean wearing my Collingwood guernsey and pretending to kick the winning goal in a Grand Final? Coz I'm pretty happy about that too if I'm being honest, brings me a lot of joy, as for Pendles contract do you know how much it is? Or is that the one detail not fully factored into your fantasy post?

Those that pretend to know how to manage TPP because of their vast experience managing their fantasy teams.

The discussion was on Elliott and his salary. No I don't know what he (or Pendles for that matter) is on. But I'm not as overly fussed as some appear to be and I'm not the one suggesting he should be happy with minimum chips.

 

[Rebuilder]

Those that pretend to know how to manage TPP because of their vast experience managing their fantasy teams.

The discussion was on Elliott and his salary. No I don't know what he (or Pendles for that matter) is on. But I'm not as overly fussed as some appear to be and I'm not the one suggesting he should be happy with minimum chips.

I remember when minimum chips was 5 cents, as for those fantasy types I hate to tell you how I play it. I don't fill in all the players, I usually leave the 2nd back up ruck open so that I don't get locked into a team and stuck with minimal changes, I do that all year. I only use Collingwood players unless we've been strongly linked to someone and I can fit them in with the core team I've chosen, in short I don't really play it, I use it to track our best team and forecast a future team. I don't know if that counts as pretending to manage TPP or if my experience is all that vast as you suggest, but I get hours of entertainment out of it.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Absolutely, but the question is can it be ready in time for Moore De Goey Maynard Grundy and co to still be in their prime?

Short answer yes.

 

[Rebuilder]

Short answer yes.

We'll all be holding you to that.

 

[JLC]

I know, right?!

We don’t really know if we have salary cap issues …

… according to Ed after last trade period, we’re the best 4-5 in the league as far as salary cap position goes. According to Wright we still have work to do on the salary cap. Obviously those two things aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive. But Wright isn’t stupid. To advertise to the league (especially to player managers) that ‘The Bank of Collingwood is overflowing with cash and is open for business’ probably wouldn’t be the smartest thing to do.

Let’s see what happens in the trade period.

Or did Ed say this is one of the proudest days for our club (jokes).

Agree. Lets wait and see re trade period

 

[jonmacTrag]

I think the fact that we had a fire sale last year and have continuing 'soft' pressure on it this year indicates another year of list and contract rationalizations.

The amount of movement in either case is open to debate but I imagine Wrighty would be less than impressed with the nebulous bottom line and intent on returning the football department to liquidity.