Coach Off Season changes 2024/25

[oldgoat]

give credit where credit is due. well done Peter Bell, you have left the club in a better place than when you came, that only should be praiseworthy and not a negative as some think.

lotsa feathers in his cap.
collar popped!

 

[oldgoat]

The decision to move to Geraldton for business reasons and only train once a week was a bad look in 2008.

The club were the other party to that deal,,,they thought it could work

 

[CaseySibosadoHOF]

I'm not sure there's any credible evidence of who wanted what with Hogan.

Undoubtedly, getting Hogan in was a good football call though. It was just very poorly executed.

No doubt the buck had to stop at Bell for that poor execution/result... whatever level he played in it.

It doesn't bode well for him managing the Petracca and Oliver situations smartly though. Although, perhaps he's learnt from it.

Those rumours add up with the fact that pretty much immediately after Ross and Rosich were gone, we went off the "talented but troubled" archetype. Those types were cleared out and from then on we basically stayed well away from that. It's a shift that pretty much everyone knew had happened, but we had Walls this year admitting as much (https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2024-media-miscellaneous-thread.1340022/post-83964094).

 

[stax on the mull]

There was an interview with Peter Bell on Monday Nov 4, if anyone hasn't heard it. (I can't remember how to put the audio into the thread).

Peter Bell: Fremantle Dockers - Wide World of Sports 6PR

Adam Papalia and David Mundy speak with Peter Bell about his decision to leave the Fremantle Dockers.

omny.fm

 

[arsesmart]

Those rumours add up with the fact that pretty much immediately after Ross and Rosich were gone, we went off the "talented but troubled" archetype. Those types were cleared out and from then on we basically stayed well away from that. It's a shift that pretty much everyone knew had happened, but we had Walls this year admitting as much (https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2024-media-miscellaneous-thread.1340022/post-83964094).

Ahh ye olde "no d-heads policy"... Classic it is.

And here I was thinking it was just an inexperienced coach and uptight footy boss not able to rub their tummy and tap their heads at the same time.

 

[CapitalA]

I'm not sure there's any credible evidence of who wanted what with Hogan.

Undoubtedly, getting Hogan in was a good football call though. It was just very poorly executed.

No doubt the buck had to stop at Bell for that poor execution/result... whatever level he played in it.

It doesn't bode well for him managing the Petracca and Oliver situations smartly though. Although, perhaps he's learnt from it.

Nah, the buck stopped with Rosich actually.

 

[CaseySibosadoHOF]

Ahh ye olde "no d-heads policy"... Classic it is.

And here I was thinking it was just an inexperienced coach and uptight footy boss not able to rub their tummy and tap their heads at the same time.

“At the end of 2015, when we finished the home and away season on top of the ladder, it was ‘we need more talent, more talent,’” Walls said. “A lot of the heart and soul players were taken away when you look at guys like (Tendai) Mzungu, (Michael) Barlow, (Alex) Silvagni, Matt de Boer.

“Back then, we wanted talent and brought in guys like Harley Bennell.”

“Now, it’s all about the draft,” Walls said. “It’s been a commitment by the club for a long time to go to the draft and do it the right way instead of looking for short-term fixes.”

Fremantle also committed to prioritising character over talent. The Dockers had been burnt by a series of off-field indiscretions. No matter how good a player may be, Fremantle won’t go near them if there was any history of nuisance.

“A lot of our time is spent interviewing players, getting references and psychology profiling,” Walls said. “Our strategy first and foremost is to bring in good people that are going to work hard.

“Talent attracts you to them. But sometimes you’re looking at some talented players and they have indiscretions or some question marks about them. We just avoid them.”

 

[Paracleet]

Nah, the buck stopped with Rosich actually.

The buck stopped with Bell. Literally it did, he was head of footy. Rosich couldn't make him do anything. Sure they might have put pressure on him to do what they wanted, but in the end he still had a choice.

 

[freo1997]

Nah, the buck stopped with Rosich actually.

That off season it sure did.

 

[CapitalA]

The buck stopped with Bell. Literally it did, he was head of footy. Rosich couldn't make him do anything. Sure they might have put pressure on him to do what they wanted, but in the end he still had a choice.

I'm not buying it. The CEO can fire the head of footy and you think he can't make him do a trade?

 

[Paracleet]

I'm not buying it. The CEO can fire the head of footy and you think he can't make him do a trade?

No he can't fire you or make you do a trade because the head of footy reports to the board (and by extension the whole footy department). This a fact. One you will no doubt try to rationalise away, but it is. The CEO is responsible for all commercial and administrative activities, but not the actual football operations.

 

[arsesmart]

“At the end of 2015, when we finished the home and away season on top of the ladder, it was ‘we need more talent, more talent,’” Walls said. “A lot of the heart and soul players were taken away when you look at guys like (Tendai) Mzungu, (Michael) Barlow, (Alex) Silvagni, Matt de Boer.

“Back then, we wanted talent and brought in guys like Harley Bennell.”

“Now, it’s all about the draft,” Walls said. “It’s been a commitment by the club for a long time to go to the draft and do it the right way instead of looking for short-term fixes.”

Fremantle also committed to prioritising character over talent. The Dockers had been burnt by a series of off-field indiscretions. No matter how good a player may be, Fremantle won’t go near them if there was any history of nuisance.

“A lot of our time is spent interviewing players, getting references and psychology profiling,” Walls said. “Our strategy first and foremost is to bring in good people that are going to work hard.

“Talent attracts you to them. But sometimes you’re looking at some talented players and they have indiscretions or some question marks about them. We just avoid them.”

Yeah... I'm not sure that speaks to the Hogan scenario as it was happening at all... especially once we'd "commited" to it. And whether Bell/Lyon etc etc was for or against the move.

There's a lot of post-hindsight doctoring with truisms and the usual footy club platitudes in there too. Which is fine, just not particularly enlightening.

Essentially they went back into rebuild mode, intentionally or otherwise. To a degree it's the most comfortable mode once you've gone with a rookie coach.

All up though, the whole episode doesn't give a great impression of Belly's ability to manage "nonconformists" in a deft or creative way that will maximise the benefit to the club.

 

[arsesmart]

Nah, the buck stopped with Rosich actually.

That's a board political thing whether it ultimately did or didn't.

But Belly being in the thick of footy dept stuff, especially if things (appeared) to be spiralling, it lands at his feet.

In particular if we're looking at him sliding in his sports car to do some sort of Mr Wolfe-style cleanup at another club.

 

[CapitalA]

No he can't fire you or make you do a trade because the head of footy reports to the board (and by extension the whole footy department). This a fact. One you will no doubt try to rationalise away, but it is. The CEO is responsible for all commercial and administrative activities, but not the actual football operations.

Can you please reference something that says the head of football reports to the board and NOT the CEO?

 

[DeanS]

No he can't fire you or make you do a trade because the head of footy reports to the board (and by extension the whole footy department). This a fact. One you will no doubt try to rationalise away, but it is. The CEO is responsible for all commercial and administrative activities, but not the actual football operations.

Most of the senior management report to the Board but the Board only hires and fires the CEO. The CEO then hires and fires all other employees. That is the correct governance and structure in all entities that employ a CEO.

 

[Purple Suit]

He might have been a good player but his record speaks for itself. For Freo, 2 finals appearances as a player and 1 finals appearance as whatever his admin role is/was. 3 years out of the 15 he has served at the club we've made finals.


Was instrumental in getting Ross Sacked and Longmuir hired. This situation caused the last CEO to resign and 5 years and 1 finals appearance later the new CEO sacked Bell.

Traded Lachie Neale for Jesse Hogan and then traded Hogan for a bag of chips.


I think there's a convincing argument that Bell is one of the worst influences the club has ever had.

Without Belly, we don’t end up with the list we have today. He’s got us on the right track & the Hogan trade which wasn’t his direct fault got us here.

You have to break some eggs to make an omelette.

 

[Wigarus]

Without Belly, we don’t end up with the list we have today. He’s got us on the right track & the Hogan trade which wasn’t his direct fault got us here.

You have to break some eggs to make an omelette.

What a load of garbage. 17 other teams managed fine without him and some of them picked up a flag or 2 along the way.

The aim is to win a flag not give jobs to geriatrics.

 

[ubiquitous226]

What a load of garbage. 17 other teams managed fine without him and some of them picked up a flag or 2 along the way.

The aim is to win a flag not give jobs to geriatrics.

Speaking of garbage, you're clearly going for number 2 here, but at the ripe old age of 48 that's a bit of a stretch considering you'd ideally like the person in the role to have quite a range of experience.

Nevermind the logical fallacies of stating 17 other clubs did fine without him.


1
geriatrics ˌjer-ē-ˈa-triks ˌjir- plural in form but singular in construction : a branch of medicine that deals with the problems and diseases of old age and the medical care and treatment of aging people
An old family member is often the inspiration for medical students who choose geriatrics.
—Katie Hafner
compare gerontology
2
: an aged person
To put it mildly, the geriatrics of the entertainment industry didn't see this coming.
—John Perry Barlow

Source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/geriatric

 

[Purple Suit]

What a load of garbage. 17 other teams managed fine without him and some of them picked up a flag or 2 along the way.

The aim is to win a flag not give jobs to geriatrics.

Geriatric? He’s 48 now and was 42 when he was employed. What age demographic should the head of footy be?

We needed to do a full rebuild, they don’t happen over night. Which of the other 17 lists would you prefer over ours for the next 5 years?

 

[Paracleet]

Just because I always stick on the point about Bell ultimately being responsible for trading Hogan in because he could have said no (countering this nonsense that he, someone parachuted in from and by the board was somehow allowing himself to be overruled by the people he was the nominated stalking horse to destroy is ludicrous) doesn't mean I belong to the Bell is Geriatric Incompetent Party. I just think on balance he was an average (as in not bad or good) footy boss so I don't mind him being gone.

Pros:

• Solid trade negotiator. Forget the ultimate outcomes those are separate. He got good to excellent outgoing deals most of the time and good to acceptable incoming trades, valued as they were at time.
• Excellent media performer.
• Made the tough decisions required to get our rebuild reset (letting Hill go etc.). Took the first rounders 2019 to 21 rather than trading any.
• Set the right framework for making right decisions player retention. Even if individually say the Acres decision was wrong, it was the right policy not to bend too much on sacrificing extra cap space for retaining C graders.
• Wants the best for Freo.

Cons

• Not a good contract negotiator. Continually made the wrong individual calls within the framework he himself set.
• Couldn't outmaneuver noted rocket surgeon Colin Young and drew the side into an extended shitfight that damaged themselves and the club.
• Obviously rubbed a few subordinates the wrong way, inserted himself into gameday a bit too much.
• Rewarded for white anting two coaches. You can strongly argue it was necessary, but generally assassins are disposed of, not promoted. (Yes, I know i've said this before. My point is it starts the whole process off on the wrong foot).
• Ambition (high) is greater than his talent (moderate). All the rumblings about wanting to be a CEO was a bad look.

 

[ubiquitous226]

Just because I always stick on the point about Bell ultimately being responsible for trading Hogan in because he could have said no (countering this nonsense the he, someone parachuted in from and by the board was somehow allowing himself to be overruled by the people he was the nominated stalking horse to destroy is ludicrous) doesn't mean I belong to the Bell is Geriatric Incompetent Party. I just think on balance he was an average (as in not bad or good) footy boss so I don't mind him being gone.

Pros:

• Solid trade negotiator. Forget the ultimate outcomes those are separate. He got good to excellent outgoing deals most of the time and good to acceptable incoming trades, valued as they were at time.
• Excellent media performer.
• Made the tough decisions required to get our rebuild reset (letting Hill go etc.). Took the first rounders 2019 to 21 rather than trading any.
• Set the right framework for making right decisions player retention. Even if individually say the Acres decision was wrong, it was the right policy not to bend too much on sacrificing extra cap space for retaining C graders.
• Wants the best for Freo.

Cons

• Not a good contract negotiator. Continually made the wrong individual calls within the framework he himself set.
• Couldn't outmaneuver noted rocket surgeon Colin Young and drew the side into an extended shitfight that damaged themselves and the club.
• Obviously rubbed a few subordinates the wrong way, inserted himself into gameday a bit too much.
• Rewarded for white anting two coaches. You can strongly argue it was necessary, but generally assassins are disposed of, not promoted. (Yes, I know i've said this before. My point is it starts the whole process off on the wrong foot).
• Ambition (high) is greater than his talent (moderate). All the rumblings about wanting to be a CEO was a bad look.

That's a good summary, and from my point of view quite balanced.

The only one I'd like to mention is I don't think any of us have a direct way of measuring his talent (at administration) or actual individual performance, only indirectly the overall club performance.
I don't know if it was a big deal that Bell's aspirations, even assuming it was accurate, were out there as long as he was still dedicated to doing his current job well.

 

[Paracleet]

That's a good summary, and from my point of view quite balanced.

The only one I'd like to mention is I don't think any of us have a direct way of measuring his talent (at administration) or actual individual performance, only indirectly the overall club performance.
I don't know if it was a big deal that Bell's aspirations, even assuming it was accurate, were out there as long as he was still dedicated to doing his current job well.

I agree and this applies to virtually any official who isn't a senior coach. So it's all opinion and you need to be careful about your preconceptions with them at all times.
On his aspirations my view is probably based on my readings of the rumours of him being a candidate for the North CEO job (and our own at one point?) being based on leaks that came from him himself. They just had that air and my further recollection is they came from what was the Fairfax papers, which where he had been leaking the Freo position during the 2018 and 2019 trade periods. This in my mind was further evidence he was the source: Hence not a good look.