Official List Management Thread

[achancely]

What do you mean stood up

In what way ....clearances, tackles, effective disposals

If your talking putting team mates under pressure .....I'd agree

Look he wasn't horrid ......but he was hardly a shining light in a midfield that was absolutely deplorable

If you agree that the midfield was smashed in every facet of the game ......who carry's the can for that? ......just one player or as I would maintain most of our midfield group .....of which Knights is one

To say he stood up ....frankly is amusing

You're hopeless. Your ridiculous assessments of Crows players have been exposed as rubbish time and time again...and then you have the gall to accuse others of not knowing anything about football.

You're a vindictive, piggish poster.

 

[macca23]

Yeh for sure, admittedly I went off the boil there for a while. I'm ready to talk sense again. You'll find I'm not so biased during the offseason!

Good to see the old Drummond back again!!

I agree with Stiffy re your delist post - genuine quality and well thought out.

Campbell- Obviously I’m against it but I think this is one of the more obvious delistings. He was starting to find his feet at AFL level however his game time was never enough for him to ever make a significant contribution. I felt he never really got an adequate chance to show what he’s capable so in that sense it’s a disappointing end.

Of all the players who are almost certain to be delisted - and Campbell certainly fits in this category - he is the one that I feel the sorriest for.

He's an unfashionable type of player, but he has never disgraced himself when playing yet never gets much of a go to make an impact.

Who knows. If he got the chances that the human marshmallow got he may have made a name for himself - but with all our young mid-fielders lined up to take their place it isn't going to happen for him.

Wrong player in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[Cap]

well in reality after seeing the reaction at potetionally losing stiffy I would love to see people reckons at the thought of losing

Bock
Rutten
VB
Mackay
Stiffy
Knights
Tippet

 

[BunjiMac]

Bock - Devastated if we lost bock

Rutten - Dissapointed but if we were sufficiently compensated and had cover for his position I could be talked round

VB - Would be very dissapointed to see VB go

Mackay - Devastated to see Mckay go, genuine talent

Stiffy - Such a cult figure would be very unhappy to see him leave, capable of so much more

Knights - Would be partial to a trade, not the future of our midfield IMO, im in the minority i know.

Tippet - Would be devastated to losebig Kurt, so much potential

 

[coast2coast]

well in reality after seeing the reaction at potetionally losing stiffy I would love to see people reckons at the thought of losing

Bock
Rutten
VB
Mackay
Stiffy
Knights
Tippet

is this a trick question capitalist?

 

[Cap]

is this a trick question capitalist?

no not really.

read through the thread peoples reaction to Johnock was from devestation to oh well lets get something for him

for me it would almost have been fitting to move him on and get something for him in an attempt to get something good

 

[Crow-mo]

DELIST/RETIRE
Bassett, Nathan
Biglands, Rhett
Campbell, Bryce
Goodwin, Simon
Gallman, Greg
McGregor, Ken

ROOKIE RETAIN/UPGRADE
Moss, James rookie, retain on rookie list
Petrenko, Jared elevate onto main list

TRADES
Griffin, Jonathon trade to Freo for pick 21
Jericho, Luke trade to Richmond with pick 62 for pick 42
Johncock, Graham trade to Port for Adam Thomson and pick 22
Rutten, Ben trade to Collingwood for Alan Didak

DRAFT PICKS
Crows - picks at 12, 21, 22, 30, 42, 46
PSD Pick 12.

you know how I like to tell you're wrong, but I would be very happy with those transactions.

very

 

[Crow-mo]

RULE #2: A road to a championship is paved by a great defence!

Collingwood kicked best part of 20 goals against us without any prominent forwards.

 

[Crow-mo]

one of our biggest problems, and the one reason I am not 100% sold on thomson for us (though happy if he comes) is the same reason I believe we made the right call on Ebert vs Dangerfield too is this:

that we are a very 1 paced team. everyone through the middle seems to be more or less, have one speed.

we need more variation. Thomson is a nice player, happy to have him, but guys like Varcoe & Didak etc. can mix it up. look at Neon Leon for an example.

 

[King Elvis]

one of our biggest problems, and the one reason I am not 100% sold on thomson for us (though happy if he comes) is the same reason I believe we made the right call on Ebert vs Dangerfield too is this:

that we are a very 1 paced team. everyone through the middle seems to be more or less, have one speed.

we need more variation. Thomson is a nice player, happy to have him, but guys like Varcoe & Didak etc. can mix it up. look at Neon Leon for an example.

You wouldn't call Geelong a devastatingly quick team though, would you? They've got Wojinscki, who is a speed-machine, but most of their other mids are pretty 'normally' speed wise.

If you watch the replay of the game, it doesn't matter how quick our midfield are - they stopped running and making space on Saturday; doesn't matter how quick you are if you can't be arsed running.

That being said - I'm excited about Dangerfield because he does have pace, and will hopefully use it, and it would be nice to get a couple of other guys who can shift up a gear if need be.

 

[BunjiMac]

You wouldn't call Geelong a devastatingly quick team though, would you? They've got Wojinscki, who is a speed-machine, but most of their other mids are pretty 'normally' speed wise.

If you watch the replay of the game, it doesn't matter how quick our midfield are - they stopped running and making space on Saturday; doesn't matter how quick you are if you can't be arsed running.

That being said - I'm excited about Dangerfield because he does have pace, and will hopefully use it, and it would be nice to get a couple of other guys who can shift up a gear if need be.

Thats probalby true, but we defeinitley appear slower. Their supreme skills and ball movement nd the fact they always seem to have people in space, probably make them appear faster.

 

[Crow-mo]

You wouldn't call Geelong a devastatingly quick team though, would you? They've got Wojinscki, who is a speed-machine, but most of their other mids are pretty 'normally' speed wise.

I said one speed, I didn't say slow or quick?

they move the ball with exceptional speed however.

If you watch the replay of the game, it doesn't matter how quick our midfield are - they stopped running and making space on Saturday; doesn't matter how quick you are if you can't be arsed running.

again, who said anything about quick. 1 paced means 1 speed.

That being said - I'm excited about Dangerfield because he does have pace, and will hopefully use it, and it would be nice to get a couple of other guys who can shift up a gear if need be.

as a team we need more variation, hopefully he will provide some. though he is far from proven too.

 

[NTRabbit]

I seem to recall Steven Trigg saying on Monday that Goodwin and McLeod were already onboard for next season, and that only Tyson Edwards was still in negotiations over his future, and I think it was more the club waiting for Tyson to decide whether he wants to go around again.

So, you can probably scratch Goodwin off of all your retirement lists.

 

[Mego Red]

Gee mate, I didn't think an depth analysis was necessary. They are all ridiculous trades.

It is an IN depth analysis, but knowing you, it wouldn't be that anyway.

If you have nothing to add, don't post. Just tacking a "ridiculous" on the end when you don't have the skills to express your opinion just wastes everyone's time.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

I seem to recall Steven Trigg saying on Monday that Goodwin and McLeod were already onboard for next season, and that only Tyson Edwards was still in negotiations over his future, and I think it was more the club waiting for Tyson to decide whether he wants to go around again.

So, you can probably scratch Goodwin off of all your retirement lists.

At this rate Burton, McLeod, Goodwin, Edwards, Shirley, Doughty and maybe Massie (given his playing position) may all be retained.

Aggressive List Management??

Gonna be interesting.

 

[Mego Red]

Jesus **** dude! Are you out for blood?!

Why would you trade Griffin?! Out of sight out of mind?! Its amazing how at the start of the year he would have been someone we would hold on for dear like but due to him playing with a hip injury since then, we should sell him?!

C'mon, a quality tall for a pissy pick that guarantees NOTHING. There is greater likelihood of Griffin developing into an AFL player than there is of pick 21. Draft picks are seriously overrated! IIRC less than 25% chance of one actually working out.

Jericho trade I would do but not sure any club would be interested in trading for a player they could pick up for nothing in the draft. Someone would have to like him a fair bit for them to trade for him. I would take any deal for him to be honest.

As for the Johncock trade, you either seriously underrate him or you seriously overrate Thomson! Wouldn't do this trade in a million years. Graham Johncock is a proven commodity, arguably the best small defender in the game when in form. Do not mistake his late season slump for lack of talent. Prior to the slump he was in AA form. With the imminent retirement of McLeod, why the hell would you trade one of the best small, rebounding defenders for a plodder and another pissy draft pick. Lack of form or not, Johncock is worth a first round draft pick all day, every day!

Rutten for Didak?! I love Didak but let me tell you a couple of great golden rules:

RULE #1: Never EVER trade a quality big for a quality small
RULE #2: A road to a championship is paved by a great defence!

Rutten is our anchor in defence. Has been every since Craig took over. Go and have a look at our record when Rutten misses a game through injury. Its one ugly sight! He is our rock, the heart and soul of our backline and more importantly, there is NO ONE that can come in and replace him adequately!

The value of both Griffin and Johncock is roughly a late first round to early second round pick (Johncock slightly higher). You can of course not want to trade them. That's fine. BUT if we want to make tough decisions and restock with youth this year, trading an excess ruckman who may NEVER make it and a half back flanker - both positions we have covered - doesn't seem outrageous.

Sure, the value of draft picks is overrated. But until someone comes up with another way of acquiring young players and us replacing our exodus of aging stars, we have to maximise our chances of success in the draft, and we can do that by getting earlier picks.

You don't need to throw the old "don't trade big for smalls" cliche at me, Stiffy, or the even older "defense wins championships". I've read the Winner Within as well. Collingwood needs key position players and we need offensive power. Maybe we would be creating a bigger problem by trading one of our key defenders. Or maybe we'd be getting highest value from him, just before the game passes him by. Many of the power forwards Rutten has success on are leaving the game as the speed increases, and they're being replaced by the more mobile forwards he finds tough. Perhaps he will adapt. Let's hope he does.

 

[Hondo]

At this rate Burton, McLeod, Goodwin, Edwards, Shirley, Doughty and maybe Massie (given his playing position) may all be retained.

Aggressive List Management??

Gonna be interesting.

How many changes do you want to make

There's already about 6 fairly obvious ones. Plus another 2 that would be looked at before all bar one of the names you mentioned. That being Massie who I think could be in trouble.

Do you want to make 14 changes - there's aggressive and then there's OTT. Besides, the club has already said they won't be taking an aggressive line.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

The value of both Griffin and Johncock is roughly a late first round to early second round pick (Johncock slightly higher). You can of course not want to trade them. That's fine. BUT if we want to make tough decisions and restock with youth this year, trading an excess ruckman who may NEVER make it and a half back flanker - both positions we have covered - doesn't seem outrageous.

Sure, the value of draft picks is overrated. But until someone comes up with another way of acquiring young players and us replacing our exodus of aging stars, we have to maximise our chances of success in the draft, and we can do that by getting earlier picks.

You don't need to throw the old "don't trade big for smalls" cliche at me, Stiffy, or the even older "defense wins championships". I've read the Winner Within as well. Collingwood needs key position players and we need offensive power. Maybe we would be creating a bigger problem by trading one of our key defenders. Or maybe we'd be getting highest value from him, just before the game passes him by. Many of the power forwards Rutten has success on are leaving the game as the speed increases, and they're being replaced by the more mobile forwards he finds tough. Perhaps he will adapt. Let's hope he does.

Unless it's top 10, i wouldn't trade Johncock for a draft pick.

I agree that Griffin is still very much boom or bust. How many pre-seasons does a bloke need. Another year next year like this one, and we may have to cut our losses when his value plummets. Conversely, he could still be a great tap ruckman for many years...risky trade, and one i wouldn't do.

Mostly, i think you make some astute observations re Rutten and the future of the game. It has already been noticable over the past 2 years, and it's only gonna get worse. On his good days, he is still a brilliant Gorilla-tamer and great one-on-one mark/spoil player. On his bad days, he is starting to look like Mick Martyn will his skills under pressure. Rutten is still a very valuable player but certainly no untradeable in my eyes.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

How many changes do you want to make

There's already about 6 fairly obvious ones. Plus another 2 that would be looked at before all bar one of the names you mentioned. That being Massie who I think could be in trouble.

Do you want to make 14 changes - there's aggressive and then there's OTT. Besides, the club has already said they won't be taking an aggressive line.

I wouldn't be getting rid of all the players mentioned, but certainly some of them.

I would have said goodbye to Burton but he is staying.

Of the rest, I'd like to see Goodwin (especially now Burton remains), Shirley, Doughty moved on...and if either of Edwards or McLeod (who i would retain) retired, then i wouldn't lose sleep over it.

 

[JunX]

Honestly why in the world would anyone even consider trading truck...???

Who else in the adelaide line-up can out-power someone like jonathon brown? Probably safe to say nathan bock, as im pretty sure he can bench press the 2nd most out of the crows (rutten 1st, thompson 3rd ) but then who would be out play maker from defense. Bock needs to ba able to run and create, not defend from the full back.

IMO trade truck for a small forward like didak, and out defense is shot. Already lost basset down there, may lose joncock, cant lose truck too...

And why trade griffin? Surely he is our best option for 2nd ruckmen... Only hampered by a hip injury saw him out of the top 22.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Honestly why in the world would anyone even consider trading truck...???

Who else in the adelaide line-up can out-power someone like jonathon brown? Probably safe to say nathan bock, as im pretty sure he can bench press the 2nd most out of the crows (rutten 1st, thompson 3rd ) but then who would be out play maker from defense. Bock needs to ba able to run and create, not defend from the full back.

IMO trade truck for a small forward like didak, and out defense is shot. Already lost basset down there, may lose joncock, cant lose truck too...

And why trade griffin? Surely he is our best option for 2nd ruckmen... Only hampered by a hip injury saw him out of the top 22.

You would certainly need a huge return to trade him no doubt.

But you answered the question re gorilla's...Bock is there.

How many gorilla's are left?

We already use Bock on the best attacker many times (Cloke, Franklin) and he does it well.

If Bock goes to full-back Stevens is a proven CHB also. If the opposition goes tall, Moran or Hentschel goes to the 3rd tall.

As far as attacking from defence, why should it be left to our champion tall...get the shorter flankers and pockets doing some of the work!!

How long will Rutten's great judgement, marking and strength mask his pace and waning skills?

It's not as if our highly rated defence did much on the weekend (Bock, Bassett excepted). If the midfield is crap, the defence will crack. If we landed a top-shelf midfielder for Rutten, then yeah I'd roll the dice.

In reality land he won't be traded and I'm happy to see his name listed at FB...i just don't rate him as untouchable.

 

[Cap]

Well we need a KPF

Rutten to FF - he big as shit, he can lead and he can kick


why not I ask....having the best defence in the comp hasn't won a flag in the last 4 years

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Lateral thought...is Gallman any chance for a tagging role?

 

[RoosterLad]

Cappy that's actually not a bad move. I hate ****ing around with a decent defence but if he doesn't have a proper match up we should move him up there. Just camp him in the square or something.

TLF... not sure if he will be good as a tagger. I haven't seen him play the role before so don't think he will suddenly become one. Unfortunately for him, he looks like he will be a fulltime Rooster next year.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

TLF... not sure if he will be good as a tagger. I haven't seen him play the role before so don't think he will suddenly become one. Unfortunately for him, he looks like he will be a fulltime Rooster next year.

Fair enough. Looks like he is going the way of Hinge (who may have been a better option all along).

I just figured he is a decent size, while not a tagger he has obviously been playing defensive roles, good engine, and not big enough for a key defender. Real shame he hasn't come on as a BP/HBF that we need going forward.

Seems like it's all over though. Let's hope Kite (BP) and Moss (HBF) turn out well because I'd hate to have the cupboard bare in those important agile mid-height defender positions.