Traded Ollie Henry - Traded to Geelong as part of a reported 3-way deal (details tbc)

[Ricketz]

I don't think it's a good outcome for Ollie to be the bloke who messed with the draft and trade system if he ends up at Geelong that way. I feel a bit sorry for Henry, as I don't think he's been done any favours the way this is playing out. And I don't think the price you paid to move from 38 to 25 will have been worth it for Geelong if Ollie does re-sign with the Pies.

He isn't the bloke who messed with the draft system though. Many times in this thread it has been pointed out that this thing has happened, often, in previous years. Multiple times to the Cats, with Tim Kelly being the big one, but Jordan Clark being an almost identical like for like in terms of a promising fringe player wanting to go home.

Unlike Pies fans, we don't hold it against Tim, Jordan or either of their teams.

Of course we would be a little disappointed if Collingwood leave us with the 25 - but not as much as you think. Our list is already pretty full and I am sure Wells and Mackie have a backup plan for a few options in the draft to use it on. Or maybe they even give it to GC in good faith.

If the Pies hold onto Ollie, that is fine. But if the Pies fans crucify him after they do that, it will only reinforce why your club isn't a destination club and his original decision to get out.

 

[Rockford]

Maybe but if im geelong im valuing the future 1st higher than a target at 25 this year. Hence i think we traded for 25 to use it on henry.

I think you’re probably right. I think Henry would be a steal at 25 and would’ve been to Geelong’s advantage even at P18. Personally, I’d have no issues with the club trading that F1 for him.. if the AFL would’ve signed off on it.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Cats fans are way overvaluing Stephens, worth about half of what Henry would be in trade value.

I didn't mention trade value in the post you laughed at.

 

[sr36]

He isn't the bloke who messed with the draft system though. Many times in this thread it has been pointed out that this thing has happened, often, in previous years. Multiple times to the Cats, with Tim Kelly being the big one, but Jordan Clark being an almost identical like for like in terms of a promising fringe player wanting to go home.

Unlike Pies fans, we don't hold it against Tim, Jordan or either of their teams.

Of course we would be a little disappointed if Collingwood leave us with the 25 - but not as much as you think. Our list is already pretty full and I am sure Wells and Mackie have a backup plan for a few options in the draft to use it on. Or maybe they even give it to GC in good faith.

If the Pies hold onto Ollie, that is fine. But if the Pies fans crucify him after they do that, it will only reinforce why your club isn't a destination club and his original decision to get out.

I'm talking about the hypothetical of if he nominated for the draft and got to the Cats. It hasn't been done since Luke Bl. It wouldn't be officially draft tampering, but the practice really is. Collingwood and Luke Ball undoubtedly ****ed around with the system, as Ollie and Geelong would be if he gets there through the draft. Because he'd only get to 25 because others have been warned off him, although not directly.

And let's face it, Cats are ****ing around with the system, by trying to create a quasi zone. They're grooming these kids from juniors and trying to force sales on the cheap, with the added benefit of Falcons kids being more likely to slip to them in the draft due to go home factor. It's very clever and probably within the rules, but also very shady and not within the interests of the league.

And I don't get why you're all so keen to compare him to Clark or Egan. Ollie would be worth Clark's price by the end of year 3, if he totally stagnated in his 3rd year, like Clark did. That'd see him fall to what Clark was worth, but pick 25 is cheaper than what Clark went for after totally stagnating. And Egan was traded for a heap. So they're not good comparisons.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Then we lose 10 spots roughly on our 2nd pick in the draft. On risk reward seems a reasonable thing to do. I reckon they could coax Ollie, "sign and we will look favourably at sending you home in 24 when we expect to get a much better price for you". Kinda a win win and late win for Geelong

It's almost like you're surrogate developing Henry for us. We've worked out a way to let you use a list spot for our future prospects!

Cats have done it again!

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Then we lose 10 spots roughly on our 2nd pick in the draft. On risk reward seems a reasonable thing to do. I reckon they could coax Ollie, "sign and we will look favourably at sending you home in 24 when we expect to get a much better price for you". Kinda a win win and late win for Geelong

Maybe, but I think bridges have probably been burned at this point and he'd probably go draft to be honest

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I'm talking about the hypothetical of if he nominated for the draft and got to the Cats. It hasn't been done since Luke Bl. It wouldn't be officially draft tampering, but the practice really is. Collingwood and Luke Ball undoubtedly *ed around with the system, as Ollie and Geelong would be if he gets there through the draft. Because he'd only get to 25 because others have been warned off him, although not directly.

And let's face it, Cats are ******* around with the system, by trying to create a quasi zone. They're grooming these kids from juniors and trying to force sales on the cheap, with the added benefit of Falcons kids being more likely to slip to them in the draft due to go home factor. It's very clever and probably within the rules, but also very shady and not within the interests of the league.

You're right there.

I think there needs to be some kind of cap allowance for a kind of "living away from home allowance" given to players under 24.

The effect would be a higher overall salary cap for sides like gws and gcs while they're developing talent but would also help with retaining interstate players in general. Might not be something that applies to Geelong vs Melbourne though

 

[PieLebo87]

Well they would have to because Geelong don't have anything else. They can't give up their future 1st. Pick 25 is it.

You’ve got a future first, and soon to have pick 7, so you can’t say you don’t have anything. If you want the kid enough, you could make it work.

 

[sr36]

You're right there.

I think there needs to be some kind of cap allowance for a kind of "living away from home allowance" given to players under 24.

The effect would be a higher overall salary cap for sides like gws and gcs while they're developing talent but would also help with retaining interstate players in general. Might not be something that applies to Geelong vs Melbourne though

In terms of equalisation, I think there needs to be a tweaking of the rules so that uncontracted doesn't alter the trade price so much. At the moment, GWS and GC draft talented kids, but the equalisation effect is lost when they have to sell them on the cheap because they're uncontracted and not dealing can result in them getting nothing.

I think they should get rid of the preseason draft and add a rule that if a bloke you've offered a contract to nominates for the draft, you should get a pick immediately after the pick he is drafted at. It would take a lot of the threat away and the potential to force deals that are below par value.

 

[PieLebo87]

Thats why i would be surprised if mackie did the trade without some indication from you guys that you would take 25.
That said if a deal falls through we either get ollie at 25 (if he goes down the draft route) or if he signs with you guys we get a decent kid at 25.
Either way geelong gets a reasonable outcome and doesnt really lose anything whereas the risk (of not getting anything) is loaded on collingwoods side (in theory anyway).

Wouldn’t your F2 (in low 30s) alone have been worth more than this year’s 25 which is a more shallow draft?

That Lions trade is a fail if you guys don’t get Henry with 25.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I don't think it's a good outcome for Ollie to be the bloke who messed with the draft and trade system if he ends up at Geelong that way. I feel a bit sorry for Henry, as I don't think he's been done any favours the way this is playing out. And I don't think the price you paid to move from 38 to 25 will have been worth it for Geelong if Ollie does re-sign with the Pies.

To be fair i dont think this ever really was geelongs plan ollie didnt advise us until quite late what he wanted to do and we had already committed to other targets like bruhn and bowes a fair while earlier. We are now doing the best we can to get him in at short notice.

I do agree what we paid bris for #25 will look like overs (that said it depends what other clubs were offering them for #25) if we simply use it at the draft (as the difference in player we draft at 25 compared to 38 wont be that much). Which is why i think we traded for it planning to send it to you for henry. I think collingwood is holding out to see if we get more for sav and add that to 25 (as i would do in their position)but ultimately if we cant they will take 25 at the death.

I still stand by what i said though in that theres much more risk being carried by coll than us though. If he doesnt come to us then thats still fine for us but if he decides to go the draft route then collingwood lose a lot which is why i think unless you are certain he will sign you will ultimately take 25.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Wouldn’t your F2 (in low 30s) alone have been worth more than this year’s 25 which is a more shallow draft?

That Lions trade is a fail if you guys don’t get Henry with 25.

Depends on how you rate this years draft compared to next years. Our r2 next year will probably be mid 30s compared to 25 this year.

I do agree on your last sentence which is why i think 25 will go to henry.

 

[Buckleys_Chance]

I think Henry stays. Collingwood won’t take unders and will probably welcome another year to try to get him to stay. Geelong will say hold tight and we’ll get you next year when we have the trade currency. A bit amateur of Geelong to let it get to this but shit happens.


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[PieLebo87]

Touché

Guess we'll pick him up at the draft

Madgen or Henry?

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I think you’re probably right. I think Henry would be a steal at 25 and would’ve been to Geelong’s advantage even at P18. Personally, I’d have no issues with the club trading that F1 for him.. if the AFL would’ve signed off on it.

I wouldnt have minded an F1 being traded for henry either (still dont) but i cant see the afl approving it.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Madgen or Henry?

No one is picking up madge he is a negative.

 

[Ricketz]

I'm talking about the hypothetical of if he nominated for the draft and got to the Cats. It hasn't been done since Luke Bl. It wouldn't be officially draft tampering, but the practice really is. Collingwood and Luke Ball undoubtedly *ed around with the system, as Ollie and Geelong would be if he gets there through the draft. Because he'd only get to 25 because others have been warned off him, although not directly.

And let's face it, Cats are ******* around with the system, by trying to create a quasi zone. They're grooming these kids from juniors and trying to force sales on the cheap, with the added benefit of Falcons kids being more likely to slip to them in the draft due to go home factor. It's very clever and probably within the rules, but also very shady and not within the interests of the league.

And I don't get why you're all so keen to compare him to Clark or Egan. Ollie would be worth Clark's price by the end of year 3, if he totally stagnated in his 3rd year, like Clark did. That'd see him fall to what Clark was worth, but pick 25 is cheaper than what Clark went for after totally stagnating. And Egan was traded for a heap. So they're not good comparisons.

Don't use the word grooming. It makes you sound like an antivax qanon knob.

Fair enough, I misunderstood regarding him staying - but there is no chance he goes to the draft.

We have a beautiful region that is family friendly and an excellent junior development program. Of course kids grow up to love the place, and make lots of strong bonds and relationships. Is it any wonder Collingwood can't do the same? Sure, lots of kids at your disposal, but you sold your soul for the MCG - now kids from there get to play at your home ground with five or six other clubs. Worst decision your club ever made, really.

And the attraction to Melbourne then becomes about the money, so they go to the highest bidder. Or the scene, and they can get that with any club in Melbourne.

You're wrong about Clark. He showed much more in his first two years than Henry has, and if he hadn't hurt his shoulder so badly he would have come along a lot more while we had him. He played 18 games in the best defensive side in the comp in his first season, in a side that made the prelim. Henry was a fringe player in one of the worst forward lines in the comp.

It's brutal to hear, but that is the truth. And it's not to say that Henry won't be a better player, but Clark had the runs on the board by the time we traded him.

 

[sr36]

To be fair i dont think this ever really was geelongs plan ollie didnt advise us until quite late what he wanted to do and we had already committed to other targets like bruhn and bowes a fair while earlier. We are now doing the best we can to get him in at short notice.

I do agree what we paid bris for #25 will look like overs (that said it depends what other clubs were offering them for #25) if we simply use it at the draft (as the difference in player we draft at 25 compared to 38 wont be that much). Which is why i think we traded for it planning to send it to you for henry. I think collingwood is holding out to see if we get more for sav and add that to 25 (as i would do in their position)but ultimately if we cant they will take 25 at the death.

I still stand by what i said though in that theres much more risk being carried by coll than us though. If he doesnt come to us then thats still fine for us but if he decides to go the draft route then collingwood lose a lot which is why i think unless you are certain he will sign you will ultimately take 25.

Of course it was Geelong's intention. And the lateness was irrelevant. They had the future first but they chose to make it unavailable in order to offer a cheaper price with no other options.

 

[Duskfire]

You’ve got a future first, and soon to have pick 7, so you can’t say you don’t have anything. If you want the kid enough, you could make it work.

Geelong can't give up future first. Henry is worth it, but if Geelong can't use it there isn't much they can do. And they aren't going to use pick 7, that is obvious.

So really, it comes down to Pick 25 or he stays. Thats the rub, essentially.

 

[BEEG]

Not sure Henry could handle the pressure of going to the ND or PSD.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Madgen or Henry?

The running joke was Madgen. Obviously we do not want Madgen

 

[PieLebo87]

Depends on how you rate this years draft compared to next years. Our r2 next year will probably be mid 30s compared to 25 this year.

I do agree on your last sentence which is why i think 25 will go to henry.

This year’s draft is shallow and next year’s supposedly has abit of talent.

I’d rather have a f2, f4 and this year’s 38 than just pick 25.

 

[Ricketz]

I think Henry stays. Collingwood won’t take unders and will probably welcome another year to try to get him to stay. Geelong will say hold tight and we’ll get you next year when we have the trade currency. A bit amateur of Geelong to let it get to this but s**t happens.


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Geelong have already won the trade period.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

This year’s draft is shallow and next year’s supposedly has abit of talent.

I’d rather have a f2, f4 and this year’s 38 than just pick 25.

Its interesting..i think similar to you but its hard to judge our trades in totality until bowes and henry are done so ill wait and see what i think once the details are known.

 

[Ricketz]

This year’s draft is shallow and next year’s supposedly has abit of talent.

I’d rather have a f2, f4 and this year’s 38 than just pick 25.

That is not what I am reading. Said to go deep into the second round. Did you get your info from Caro or Brown?