List Mgmt. Our List 2014 - Trade, De-list and Draft - (keep it all in here)

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Source

Just a gut feel -

But the AFL will open up a huge can of worms if any of the player received sanctions (maybe other than fines?).

The AFL will come down hard on Essendon and the administration because of the doping regime they set up and "forced upon" their players (who have already plead ignorance).

 

[Jeremias]

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/player-profile/james-magner

Only played 2 games this year due to being on the rookie list, but is a great player and would be good steak knives in that deal. I'd see if we can lure him accross regardless.

Magner is a long way from a great player. Great footballers don't play 2 games for near on the worst side in the competition. He's a 25/26 year old average footballer who has some real strengths to his game but is not overly appealing as a prospect.

He is a clearance machine who can find the ball and tackles hard. Probably best utilized as an inside midfielder who hunts the ball but has also been deployed at senior level as a tagger. Has some real strengths to his game but that's about where it ends for him. Is nowhere near damaging enough with his disposal for a player at AFL level.

If we were to bring him in we'd be doing so as an inside midfielder. Personally I'd much rather persist with Cachia and Bell as those inside midfielders as I see them as having more strings to their bow.

 

[RiCHii]

Magner is a long way from a great player. Great footballers don't play 2 games for near on the worst side in the competition. He's a 25/26 year old average footballer who has some real strengths to his game but is not overly appealing as a prospect.

He is a clearance machine who can find the ball and tackles hard. Probably best utilized as an inside midfielder who hunts the ball but has also been deployed at senior level as a tagger. Has some real strengths to his game but that's about where it ends for him. Is nowhere near damaging enough with his disposal for a player at AFL level.

If we were to bring him in we'd be doing so as an inside midfielder. Personally I'd much rather persist with Cachia and Bell as those inside midfielders as I see them as having more strings to their bow.

The way I see it is, if he cannot get a game at Melbourne ..... I'll let everyone else finish this sentence .

 

[blueboy25]

id take that trade in an instant.

with glass' retirement imminent i think Brown will want to stay, plus he is getting games this year.

Brown has been offered a 3 year deal by west coast this week.

 

[Juddernaut08]

I don't know how you came to the conclusion that they will be flat. The biggest scalp in the history of the club won't be leaving them flat, in fact it is probably more likely to have the opposite effect. They will be up and about, I don't think there is any doubt about that.

Warnock hasn't necessarily pissed MM off but I do think Mick has come to the realization that playing the two of them in tandem just does not work. Kreuzer is clearly our number 1 option and whilst Warnock is terrific in the centre square he has no impact anywhere else which is his big downfall. With Kreuzer not able to play as a permanent forward it leaves no option but to leave Warnock out of the side. Having said that I have heard that MM and RW don't see eye to eye on some things and I do expect Warnock to be at another club in 2014.

Do people think the following trade proposal could work? Warnock + Lucas + Our first rounder for Pick 1?

 

[HARKER]

Do people think the following trade proposal could work? Warnock + Lucas + Our first rounder for Pick 1?

That might be thereabouts in terms of personnel and picks but not exactly for needs.
GWS still want quality defenders.

Laidler could still be good at another club but we've really diluted his currency.
Not sure what his value would be out there any more.

 

[Jeremias]

Do people think the following trade proposal could work? Warnock + Lucas + Our first rounder for Pick 1?

Yes, GWS would certainly take that deal. We'd be mad to offer it, though.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Yes, GWS would certainly take that deal. We'd be mad to offer it, though.

I would've thought that's what it would take to get Tom Boyd.

Warnock: A good, genuine 1st ruck who will win the tap outs most weeks. - but surplus to our needs

Lucas: A hard-running player who can contribute now and has a lot of potential. - but who many of us feel lets us down with his disposal as an outside player

And a pick. Make it our 2nd rounder if we can negotiate that.

Other than depth we don't lose anything from Warnock. Hampson is still good insurance in the event Kreuzer goes down. Lucas is fringe 22 for us so we don't lose much there.

 

[Faz 2000]

Magner is just another plodder to add to out plod pile. No thanks.

So true.

The problem with our list is it's full of plodders who have no potential to be more than they are. Sure, they're honest, they try, they have some positive attributes... but that can't become stars and they are very unlikely to improve.

Magner would be close to the worst conceivable trade target for us. We effectively already have him (more than once) in Curnow, Ellard, McLean, Cachia, etc. We have too many of him already. These are guys we should be trucking to Melbourne and see if we can get a pick upgrade or something to get another kid with potential on our list, rather than these go-nowhere filler-types.

 

[Cringle]

Average players are useful... But ony when you have a good solid group of 7-9 A Graders to base the structure. Until we can field a team with a solid structure of atleast 3-4 A Grade KPP's, and solid 4-5 A Grade Midfielders then we can't be going into trade week to add average players to our list.

 

[serenityNow]

I would've thought that's what it would take to get Tom Boyd.

Warnock: A good, genuine 1st ruck who will win the tap outs most weeks. - but surplus to our needs

Lucas: A hard-running player who can contribute now and has a lot of potential. - but who many of us feel lets us down with his disposal as an outside player

And a pick. Make it our 2nd rounder if we can negotiate that.

Other than depth we don't lose anything from Warnock. Hampson is still good insurance in the event Kreuzer goes down. Lucas is fringe 22 for us so we don't lose much there.

Will only get better and has been in our bests of late, also think Mick has taken a big shine to him and sees a bright future in him.........i'd expect Lucas to stay.

 

[Cringle]

IMO, if Yarran can build a better tank over the next year he could take over Lucas's current role. Yarran is a much better disposal anyway and will benefit our forwards greatly.

 

[Cringle]

Yes, Lucas will get better. But so will Boyd. Our team could do without Lucas.

 

[Jeremias]

I would've thought that's what it would take to get Tom Boyd.

Warnock: A good, genuine 1st ruck who will win the tap outs most weeks. - but surplus to our needs

Lucas: A hard-running player who can contribute now and has a lot of potential. - but who many of us feel lets us down with his disposal as an outside player

And a pick. Make it our 2nd rounder if we can negotiate that.

Other than depth we don't lose anything from Warnock. Hampson is still good insurance in the event Kreuzer goes down. Lucas is fringe 22 for us so we don't lose much there.

If that's what it takes to get an unproven player, count us out.

Warnock is surplus to our needs assuming we hold on to Hampson. There is certainly merit in suggesting moving one of them on at the end of the season.

Kane Lucas is not a fringe player. He has played every game this season bar one where he was rested against GWS. He is now a regular senior player and we have seen huge improvement from us this season. Lucas is not soft nor is he exclusively an 'outside' player. He'll never be a tough nut but he goes when it is his turn to do so.

We'd be mad to give up two potential high level footballers for the opportunity to select one. That's not how you improve a list.

The hype surrounding draft picks is just ridiculous.

 

[OldBlueFan]

Just a gut feel -

But the AFL will open up a huge can of worms if any of the player received sanctions (maybe other than fines?).

The AFL will come down hard on Essendon and the administration because of the doping regime they set up and "forced upon" their players (who have already plead ignorance).

Not as big as the international can of worms they will open if they DON'T sanction the players.

Sporting teams throughout the world will have the ready-made formula for doping their team to the eyeballs, take a "club" penalty, but end up with a list of players that are playing the sport with the full benefit of what doping can produce.

All they have to do is cook up some fantasy story that it was all "rogue elements" at the club, and there was a "lack of oversight" of the practices and "oh, the best advice we could establish at the time was that everything was above board" ... etc etc.

Precedent is a powerful thing. If *Essendon players get away with this, it will be open slather for doping in team sports the world over. Hardly the direction that WADA would like to see these things heading in.

 

[Juddernaut08]

If that's what it takes to get an unproven player, count us out.

Warnock is surplus to our needs assuming we hold on to Hampson. There is certainly merit in suggesting moving one of them on at the end of the season.

Kane Lucas is not a fringe player. He has played every game this season bar one where he was rested against GWS. He is now a regular senior player and we have seen huge improvement from us this season. Lucas is not soft nor is he exclusively an 'outside' player. He'll never be a tough nut but he goes when it is his turn to do so.

We'd be mad to give up two potential high level footballers for the opportunity to select one. That's not how you improve a list.

The hype surrounding draft picks is just ridiculous.

Respectfully disagree.

Whilst I can respect that you have a higher opinion of Lucas than I do (and most of us do), the trade still has merit.

Of course bringing in a no.1 pick is not a guarantee. But the probability is that he will be our best forward for the next decade. That improves our list unless we really give up a lot to get him.

Losing Warnock doesn't hurt us. Losing Lucas doesn't really hurt us either. Could be replaced by Graham or Buckley next year. (My point being is that we have other midfielders who can slot into our rotation who are of comparable ability to Lucas)

 

[Faz 2000]

Average players are useful... But ony when you have a good solid group of 7-9 A Graders to base the structure. Until we can field a team with a solid structure of atleast 3-4 A Grade KPP's, and solid 4-5 A Grade Midfielders then we can't be going into trade week to add average players to our list.

Average players are essential... but they're the last piece you add. Like you say, we need to build the core, the structure, the spine. Only when that's all in place do you add the filler. That's why it's called filler.

 

[TheKITC]

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/geoff-walsh-could-head-to-melbourne-after-quitting-collingwood-on-wednesday/story-fndv8g1a-1226684614497

"I think Rodney Eade replacing Walshy, who did a fantastic job, hopefully Rodney is a little bit more generous."

Not sure if Dale was saying this is jest, but if not he is looking further likely to leave by the day. Dalayed talks all season (fair enough given his injury I guess) but now seems to be looking for reasons to take the heat off.

Hopefully Sticks and Swanny are a bit more generous, for the right price. I think he'd be a great acquisition.

*edit* In my time away from BF I've forgotten how to title links

 

[Franc de Borges]

I'll gladly admit that Lucas is beginning to win me over. Thought his game on Friday night was excellent.

I'd prefer that we trade for a ready-made defender and persist with Henderson as our prime forward target. Not only can he be relied upon to stay on the park but his smarts and goalkicking accuracy put him miles in front of Waite, who is clearly now only a bonus player.

If Mitchell can develop into a decent foil over pre-season we'd have ourselves a pretty potent forward line.

I'd like to see us target Frawley or Garland and continue to develop Watson. I wouldn't put a line through Laidler either as we know how good he can be when fit.

I'm not sold on trading for the number one pick as we already have three and the days of the messiah complex at this club need to end.

 

[BluStreak]

He won't be playing next year... ASADA investigation results are apparently expected before finals and trade period

I have to admit that I have some doubts about the results being released before the Finals & Trade period is over. Fat Vlad will receive the results and if it means that Essendon* players will be banned then I reckon he will hold it until after the trade period so that Essendon* can trade players out and have a team for next year.

 

[Kramer1]

Will only get better and has been in our bests of late, also think Mick has taken a big shine to him and sees a bright future in him.........i'd expect Lucas to stay.

Maybe we see what we want to see, but I detect just a whisker of hardness developing in his game. The saints obviously targeted him with a bit of push and shove and he was happy to give a bit back, also no hesitation in putting his head over the ball against North. I realise these are minimum requirements, but its progress.

 

[BM123]

Don't have any problem trading Hampson or Warnock but there is plenty to work with Lucas and I don't see any reason to push him out the door.

 

[happydude]

I'm not sold on trading for the number one pick as we already have three and the days of the messiah complex at this club need to end.

I could agree with most of your post but this is what I think more people need to realise.

 

[KennyHunter9]

Dale Thomas will re-sign soon: Walsh


what's all this about?

I thought he was already in navy blue

Sounds much more promising if you get Tim Webster to read it

 

[Juddernaut08]

I'll gladly admit that Lucas is beginning to win me over. Thought his game on Friday night was excellent.

I'd prefer that we trade for a ready-made defender and persist with Henderson as our prime forward target. Not only can he be relied upon to stay on the park but his smarts and goalkicking accuracy put him miles in front of Waite, who is clearly now only a bonus player.

If Mitchell can develop into a decent foil over pre-season we'd have ourselves a pretty potent forward line.

I'd like to see us target Frawley or Garland and continue to develop Watson. I wouldn't put a line through Laidler either as we know how good he can be when fit.

I'm not sold on trading for the number one pick as we already have three and the days of the messiah complex at this club need to end.

I agree that we can't put our eggs in one basket and think that we'll just fill the rest of the spots with role players.

But if the net gain to the team is positive, then the trade should at least be considered.

The main asset we give in this trade is Warnock. While a very good player, he is surplus to our needs. Ruckman are unique in that we can't just plonk them somewhere else even if they're more talented overall (unlike a mid or kpp who can just be put in another position).