Opinion Patrick Karnezis - the forgotten forward

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I think the "play him now because Reid might take his spot later" argument has merit.

 

[mattys123]

Thought we kicked 17-7 against the Weagles, that's hardly impotent or inaccurate.

But that's part of the problem, we really only won against the Eagles because of our accurate kicking, and that's a fluke really if you are going on our recent history. What if we'd kicked even 12.12? We would have lost, let alone if we'd kicked at our near 40% average going into that game.

Patty is the best kick for goal at the club, without a single doubt, but he also sets up goals and takes a defender away from Cloke, White, Elliott etc.

We need another element to that forward line IMO, and until Reid is available Patty should be given a shot.

 

[speedytiger]

I still wouldn't pick Karnezis yet, i think he 'cheats' running forward of the play. It might help him kick an extra one or two a game but his opponent will affect more contests than his two cheapies would be worth.

Having said that picking him might mean Cloke pushes up the ground more which is something i'd like to see. I would only pick one ruck if we picked Karnezis and use White as back up

 

[jackcass]

What has Young done to deserve a game so far? Got injured and somehow came straight back in.... Average kicking the only thing I hear people say for reasoning of him being in the squad is "he's a 60m player" he's also a soft turnover merchant on those 60m plays...

Every player on our list (bar Pendlebury and Elliott) are faulted in one way or another and no-one at the moment is guaranteed as selection, and every fan has the guy that they 'just dont see why they deserve selectotion' with, be it Blair, Maxy, Goldsack etc.

Young would be in that 15 -22 range when the list is healthy and he's not exactly setting the world on fire (Admittedly he's my fall guy at 29 and not much improvement left in him - Hawks saw it, but we cant?)

Don't think he's soft but he's certainly in the gun. Frustrates the heck out of me. Does some cringeworthy stuff and then sythes through the middle of the ground and pumps the ball deep into the F50, then does some cringeworthy stuff, then scythes through the midfield... you get the point. Does appear to get better the more games he plays but he along with Fasolo will be busting their arses on the training track this week to retain their spots.

 

[jackcass]

I dont think young (currently) is paying any form of defensive role - Being last week our backline was Frost, Brown, Williams, Toovey, Maxwell, Langdon (who are all singularly backmen currently) and we had Fasolo play 3qtrs at Half back as the final defender nearly all of Youngs possessions were forward of the back 50 (goldsack and Harry will usually go back before him also)

While he has played as a backman in the past our current team is holding too many back flankers (IMHO) as two weeks ago before the crows game we dropped Thomas and Adams to put in Young and Toovey... Now he's on a wing which I think there are better options

N.B I agree he did play well in second half of Essendon game but I'd rather Karnezis in with Goldsack as an option to swing back (or Harry) if needed...

As a team we still played on the weekend 9 guys who have played defence at some stage in there career while the versatility of that is good we need more firepower!

N.b my comment about young was someone commented "Drop young, on what planet does that make sense" The answer - this one by many reasons

Played as the +1 in defense last week when Frost and Brown went off and has played a similar role in other games.

 

[the mighty T]

Thought we kicked 17-7 against the Weagles, that's hardly impotent or inaccurate.

Bet the Eagles thought the same after their game with GWS

 

[jackcass]

But that's part of the problem, we really only won against the Eagles because of our accurate kicking, and that's a fluke really if you are going on our recent history. What if we'd kicked even 12.12? We would have lost, let alone if we'd kicked at our near 40% average going into that game.

Patty is the best kick for goal at the club, without a single doubt, but he also sets up goals and takes a defender away from Cloke, White, Elliott etc.

We need another element to that forward line IMO, and until Reid is available Patty should be given a shot.

You can't select the team based on what might have happened, you go on the game that was, who did well in terms of KPIs, who didn't, who's fit, who isn't, what are the options available in the reserves. And I'd have White, Elliott and Beams up there for goal kicking accuracy as well.

What you're effectively saying is that the primary issue our team has is scoring and scoring accuracy. Whereas I'm in the camp that says let's stabilise our defense and improve our clearances. Both those things will hopefully improve our ball use which will in turn improve our forward entries and our scoring accuracy. The reality is that you could put Daicos, Carmen, and McKenna in our foward line at the moment and it still may not improve our scoring quantum or our scoring accuracy given that a significant proportion of our points and OOFs are coming because shots are being taken wide and under pressure due to the poor clearance rates and the hammering our defense is getting rebounding the footy.

 

[piedpiper32]

Thought we kicked 17-7 against the Weagles, that's hardly impotent or inaccurate.

But that's part of the problem, we really only won against the Eagles because of our accurate kicking, and that's a fluke really if you are going on our recent history. What if we'd kicked even 12.12? We would have lost, let alone if we'd kicked at our near 40% average going into that game.

Patty is the best kick for goal at the club, without a single doubt, but he also sets up goals and takes a defender away from Cloke, White, Elliott etc.

We need another element to that forward line IMO, and until Reid is available Patty should be given a shot.

This^
As I posted in another thread we kicked 17 goals in 24 scoring shots vs. a season average of just over 11 goals in almost 26 scoring shots. So on averages with 24 scoring shots we would have ended up with only about 10 goals, which would have been almost a 30 point loss! The unusual accuracy however got us over the line, but it should not cover up our clear deficiencies up forward.

We took a total of just 9 marks inside 50 (more than half by non-KPP's) after just 8 total last week against Adelaide. The smalls were the ones doing the damage and although there were a number of excellent goals, many were low percentage.

Karnezis coming in gives us a leading target who can actually kick straight. With Cloke and White both struggling we need another option.

 

[jackcass]

So long as he is kicking goals I'm prepared to wear that, we need more finishers.

CCI was talking about Young.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

But that's part of the problem, we really only won against the Eagles because of our accurate kicking, and that's a fluke really if you are going on our recent history. What if we'd kicked even 12.12? We would have lost, let alone if we'd kicked at our near 40% average going into that game.

Patty is the best kick for goal at the club, without a single doubt, but he also sets up goals and takes a defender away from Cloke, White, Elliott etc.

We need another element to that forward line IMO, and until Reid is available Patty should be given a shot.

Have heard it all now. Kicking straight is a problem now is it?

I dont recall too many miracle goals of the year from the boundary line.

 

[jackcass]

This^
As I posted in another thread we kicked 17 goals in 24 scoring shots vs. a season average of just over 11 goals in almost 26 scoring shots. So on averages with 24 scoring shots we would have ended up with only about 10 goals, which would have been almost a 30 point loss! The unusual accuracy however got us over the line, but it should not cover up our clear deficiencies up forward.

We took a total of just 9 marks inside 50 (more than half by non-KPP's) after just 8 total last week against Adelaide. The smalls were the ones doing the damage and although there were a number of excellent goals, many were low percentage.

Karnezis coming in gives us a leading target who can actually kick straight. With Cloke and White both struggling we need another option.

You can have as many leading forwards as you like but it's bloody hard to mark a half volley or a ball that's 3-4m wide or over your head.

 

[ottoman]

You can have as many leading forwards as you like but it's bloody hard to mark a half volley or a ball that's 3-4m wide or over your head.

How about we start with just marking the ones that hit you on the chest.

sorry couldn't resist venting my cynicism (mainly towards cloke)

 

[Bard]

How about we start with just marking the ones that hit you on the chest.

sorry couldn't resist venting my cynicism (mainly towards cloke)

Cloke has dropped a few 'sitters' this year, sure. But 90% of the time the delivery has been absolutely dreadful. The difference between this year and last, is that last year he could make awful delivery look good. If he was constantly getting good service his confidence wouldn't be at the low it is now. The midfield is as much to blame as he is.

White's issue on the other hand is his ridiculous fluctuations of work-rate. If he had the workrate Goldsack did he'd be magnificent.

 

[ottoman]

Cloke has dropped a few 'sitters' this year, sure. But 90% of the time the delivery has been absolutely dreadful. The difference between this year and last, is that last year he could make awful delivery look good. If he was constantly getting good service his confidence wouldn't be at the low it is now. The midfield is as much to blame as he is.

White's issue on the other hand is his ridiculous fluctuations of work-rate. If he had the workrate Goldsack did he'd be magnificent.

Regarding White I agree. I had a sneaky suspicion pre season that this guy was going to be another one of those inconsistent tall forwards which we have a special ability of finding.

Regarding Cloke.
You may be right. But due to my frustration I have lost any ability to think objectively regarding him.

 

[jmac70]

White's form is hardly a surprise. He hadn't exactly set the world on fire in previous seasons.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

What did our inside 50's end up being? It was 28-50 at one point in the third quarter against West Coast. Pretty unfair placing all the blame at the feet of the tall forwards on that basis.

 

[mattys123]

What did our inside 50's end up being? It was 28-50 at one point in the third quarter against West Coast. Pretty unfair placing all the blame at the feet of the tall forwards on that basis.

51-66, and I dare say we evened that up a fair bit in that last quarter.

I still say our midfield is struggling to both win the ball and then deliver it properly to the forward line, at least to a level that is capable of beating top sides.

Before we face the Hawks we need to somehow clean up our delivery inside 50 because it's been damn ugly the last 2 games in particular.

 

[TradeDraft]

51-66, and I dare say we evened that up a fair bit in that last quarter.

I still say our midfield is struggling to both win the ball and then deliver it properly to the forward line, at least to a level that is capable of beating top sides.

Before we face the Hawks we need to somehow clean up our delivery inside 50 because it's been damn ugly the last 2 games in particular.

Some nice Kicks down at the VFL

 

[mattys123]

Some nice Kicks down at the VFL

Yeah Seedsman is one we really need to get into the seniors eventually, I think he's an upgrade on Young myself.

 

[TradeDraft]

His 6 Goals:

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

White's form is hardly a surprise. He hadn't exactly set the world on fire in previous seasons.

He was recruited to play ruck-forward with Reid the other tall kpp along with Cloke. We havent had the chance to use him in the role yet. Maybe Karnezis comes in for Grundy and White plays ruck this weekend. Lets wait and see.

Leigh Brown did nothing much in his first year at Collingwood either. White will be fine. And by fine I mean he'll be a contributor. Hes not a Brownlow medal winner, he was never brought to the club to be one.

 

[jmac70]

He was recruited to play ruck-forward with Reid the other tall kpp along with Cloke. We havent had the chance to use him in the role yet. Maybe Karnezis comes in for Grundy and White plays ruck this weekend. Lets wait and see.

Leigh Brown did nothing much in his first year at Collingwood either. White will be fine. And by fine I mean he'll be a contributor. Hes not a Brownlow medal winner, he was never brought to the club to be one.

I agree that he needs to play the ruck/forward role...starting this week. As a pure forward he is next to useless.

 

[Chilli Con Incarnate]

So long as he is kicking goals I'm prepared to wear that, we need more finishers.

Sorry Jonbe and Bard, I was talking about Young earlier. I like Karnezis and think he could add something to our team.

 

[sirlothie]

Karnezis done his hammy today at training Bucks said at press conference.

 

[Mkcaptain]

Very bad news. Just when he was starting to get some solid footy into him