Opinion Patrick Karnezis - the forgotten forward

[Bard]

What is his tackle pressure like in the forward line? It'd have to be absolutely manic to slot him in there.

 

[sirlothie]

What is his tackle pressure like in the forward line? It'd have to be absolutely manic to slot him in there.

Why? That annoys me to be honest as it shouldn't be the number 1 criteria to get a forward spot. Of course it's important but hard to tackle if you get the ball first often. Blair and Goldsack only attack tackling so hard because they don't offer much else most of the time so they have to focus on that to get a game. First job of a forward is to kick goals.

 

[Scodog10]

What is his tackle pressure like in the forward line? It'd have to be absolutely manic to slot him in there.

Give me 3 goals over 3 I50 tackles any day of the week!

The goals are a byproduct of those that provide that tackling pressure and ATM we have precious few players that are good finishers in the senior lineup.

In fact the only forward that I feel confident with ball I50 currently is Elliott...

 

[Apex36]

What is his tackle pressure like in the forward line? It'd have to be absolutely manic to slot him in there.

Not up to the same level as Goldsack or Blair, but since when is tackling pressure the be all or end all for an attacking forward? As much as I love the pressure Blair and Goldy bring, their scoreboard tallies are underwhelming. Also, if he replaced Witts/Grundy I doubt his pressure would be the focal point of his selection.

 

[Bard]

Not up to the same level as Goldsack or Blair, but since when is tackling pressure the be all or end all for an attacking forward? As much as I love the pressure Blair and Goldy bring, their scoreboard tallies are underwhelming. Also, if he replaced Witts/Grundy I doubt his pressure would be the focal point of his selection.

I just want both . But yeah replacing one of the ruckmen is a viable option.

 

[jonbe54]

I just want both . But yeah replacing one of the ruckmen is a viable option.

NOT going to happen, different skillset different focus. Defensive forwards think first of keeping the ball inside 50, attacking forwards think first of goaling, so long as you have accurate attacking forwards you don't need to hold it in. With Billy already bloody accurate and slotting a very accurate Karney alongside him we could up our conversion rateby 33% - 50%.

With those sorts of figures who cares about defensive forward pressure?

Relatively speaking that is.

 

[Scodog10]

NOT going to happen, different skillset different focus. Defensive forwards think first of keeping the ball inside 50, attacking forwards think first of goaling, so long as you have accurate attacking forwards you don't need to hold it in. With Billy already bloody accurate and slotting a very accurate Karney alongside him we could up our conversion rateby 33% - 50%.

With those sorts of figures who cares about defensive forward pressure?

Relatively speaking that is.

I agree entirely and think you've very succinctly described the lay of the land. The question I have is though does the MC share our opinions? I personally don't believe they do which concerns me.

Our current emphasis is on the defenders defending, the midfield defending (though they've struggled the past two weeks) and the forwards defending. That's all well and good against the best teams, but at some point you need to unleash the shackles and get more offensive players in the front half.

Here's to hoping the MC change their minds this week and get on board with us

 

[Bard]

NOT going to happen, different skillset different focus. Defensive forwards think first of keeping the ball inside 50, attacking forwards think first of goaling, so long as you have accurate attacking forwards you don't need to hold it in. With Billy already bloody accurate and slotting a very accurate Karney alongside him we could up our conversion rateby 33% - 50%.

With those sorts of figures who cares about defensive forward pressure?

Relatively speaking that is.

Yeah fair enough. So who would you drop for him, Witts? Playing White through the ruck for the last few minutes on Saturday really helped him have at least some positive influence on the game, and considering it's the position he was recruited for (KPF + Ruck) perhaps it's time to give him those duties.

 

[jonbe54]

Yeah fair enough. So who would you drop for him, Witts? Playing White through the ruck for the last few minutes on Saturday really helped him have at least some positive influence on the game, and considering it's the position he was recruited for (KPF + Ruck) perhaps it's time to give him those duties.

I'm thinking Grundy needs a rest more than big Wittsy - remember this is only Grundles first season with a preseason behind him whereas Wittsy has been in the system a few years and is a bit more developed - if not quite the beast (attitude wise) that Grundy is.

 

[jonbe54]

I agree entirely and think you've very succinctly described the lay of the land. The question I have is though does the MC share our opinions? I personally don't believe they do which concerns me.

Our current emphasis is on the defenders defending, the midfield defending (though they've struggled the past two weeks) and the forwards defending. That's all well and good against the best teams, but at some point you need to unleash the shackles and get more offensive players in the front half.

Here's to hoping the MC change their minds this week and get on board with us

I'm hoping the MC have been concentrating on defense due to injuries keeping our better attacking players out - after all we specifically recruited attacking ball user types so we must intend to use them.

 

[Bard]

I'm thinking Grundy needs a rest more than big Wittsy - remember this is only Grundles first season with a preseason behind him whereas Wittsy has been in the system a few years and is a bit more developed - if not quite the beast (attitude wise) that Grundy is.

Considering St Kilda's ruck stocks are so poor this is probably the best time to rest him too.

 

[Chilli Con Incarnate]

On what basis do you make this call? He doesn't shy away from a contest or drop his head when taking a mark.

He does shy away from a lot of contests and have you ever watched him attempt to tackle front on? He doesn't win a lot of hard balls.

 

[jonbe54]

He does shy away from a lot of contests and have you ever watched him attempt to tackle front on? He doesn't win a lot of hard balls.

So long as he is kicking goals I'm prepared to wear that, we need more finishers.

 

[Unknown Identity]

If he doesn't get selected this week i'll eat my hat..

And Buckley.. Pleeeeease!!! Don't start him as the sub.

 

[Ketchup]

If he doesn't get selected this week i'll eat my hat..

And Buckley.. Pleeeeease!!! Don't start him as the sub.

What sort of hat?

 

[Unknown Identity]

What sort of hat?

 

[Bard]

He does shy away from a lot of contests and have you ever watched him attempt to tackle front on? He doesn't win a lot of hard balls.

Haven't seen him play since his first season with Brisbane where I was pretty impressed with his creativity.

 

[Apex36]

I'm thinking Grundy needs a rest more than big Wittsy - remember this is only Grundles first season with a preseason behind him whereas Wittsy has been in the system a few years and is a bit more developed - if not quite the beast (attitude wise) that Grundy is.

Mr Yeo disagrees with you

 

[didaksrightfoot]

Why? That annoys me to be honest as it shouldn't be the number 1 criteria to get a forward spot. Of course it's important but hard to tackle if you get the ball first often. Blair and Goldsack only attack tackling so hard because they don't offer much else most of the time so they have to focus on that to get a game. First job of a forward is to kick goals.

I think you are very much underselling Goldy and Blair there.

I think the reason that it is important for someone like Karnezis being able to show tackling pressure is that being a forward in the AFL is a hell of a lot harder than the VFL and if you are not getting a clear touch on the pill in this higher pressure environment then you have to be able to create those opportunities in other ways. All too often you see a young player come in and just look lost because they are not getting a clear look at the ball.

I hope that he does get a shot in the next couple of weeks, because offensively it would be very hard for him to provide less than Cloke and White are currently - but he will also have to show that he can be useful when we dont get the ball in cleanly.

 

[sr36]

I agree entirely and think you've very succinctly described the lay of the land. The question I have is though does the MC share our opinions? I personally don't believe they do which concerns me.

Our current emphasis is on the defenders defending, the midfield defending (though they've struggled the past two weeks) and the forwards defending. That's all well and good against the best teams, but at some point you need to unleash the shackles and get more offensive players in the front half.

Here's to hoping the MC change their minds this week and get on board with us

Agreed. I'd also like to add that by playing our defensive forwards, we're actually letting their defenders get a greater number of uncontested possessions. Our forwards don't read the game well enough, are too reactive and don't have the instincts to get to the fall of the ball often enough, therefore the defenders regularly get the ball without a contest. We then run around chasing tail like lunatics. This changed noticably in the final quarter against WCE when we had genuinely dangerous attacking options up there - Swan, Elliott, Fasolo.

 

[jonbe54]

A forward line of Elliott, Fasolo and Karnesis with Swan and Pendles drifting down is bloody exciting. It makes us multi pronged with the collosus Cloke and White drifting in as well we can stretch the defense and make THEM run around after US.

 

[Bard]

Agreed. I'd also like to add that by playing our defensive forwards, we're actually letting their defenders get a greater number of uncontested possessions. Our forwards don't read the game well enough, are too reactive and don't have the instincts to get to the fall of the ball often enough, therefore the defenders regularly get the ball without a contest. We then run around chasing tail like lunatics. This changed noticably in the final quarter against WCE when we had genuinely dangerous attacking options up there - Swan, Elliott, Fasolo.

To be fair, their defenders getting uncontested possessions has as much to do with our awful i50 passes as the misreading of the fall of the ball.

 

[the mighty T]

This is the week for the Golden Greek. We don't need one of the ruckman against the Aints and it's time we played white in the role he was recruited for.

Pat can show his quality against afl competition at least until Reid is ready

 

[mattys123]

If we are going to try Patty it's this week or next because odds are by the time we reach the Doggies game Reid will be back to play as a permanent forward (where he'll play until he gets 100% match fit).

It's Patty time people, pull the trigger Bucks, if nothing else it will add about 500 to the total crowd figure with all his relatives coming along.

 

[jackcass]

Karnezis has to come in next week. Our forward line is impotent atm, need someone who can present a target and kick straight

Thought we kicked 17-7 against the Weagles, that's hardly impotent or inaccurate.