Player Watch Pick #16 (2016) - Todd Marshall

[Rigs]

Doubt there will be a call on his career anytime soon. The innocuous knocks leading to concussions has been very common the last couple of years for Todd. If they club were serious about head injuries, I feel calling time on his career would have happened a lot earlier than now.

 

[drcollossimo]

Agree that there is a mindset issue when it comes to contests. We saw a more contest happy Marshall in 2022, where he'd use his body to hold off a defender and mark on regular occasions, but that willingness to make body contact seems to have fallen out of his game. Maybe it's the concussions? He's never going to be a gorilla up there but he needs to be more of a presence.




This is just absolute trash as usual from you in this thread.

Ratugolea spent 4 years and 50+ games at Geelong as a key forward/2nd ruck. Not a great one, but he hardly needed directions to the forward 50.

Your claim about score involvements is boosted by Ratugolea getting 8 of them in a complete statistical outlier of a game. In the other 2 games he's played forward, he got 3 in each game, which is basically bang on his average from his time at Geelong. He's not getting anywhere near Marshall's output over a season playing key forward. He barely got to Marshall's output despite playing 2.5 extra quarters against Melbourne.

Well done you’re almost there yes Sav is a shit KPF that’s the point the fact he’s even competing against Marshall is an indictment on Marshall

Statistical outlier you say nice so I guess Hot Toddy must’ve killed it against Essendon then another “statistical outlier” how’d he go? After all that’s the entirety of your point isn’t it? (Looking forward to the mental gymnastics coming up)

My posts can be rubbish to be fair but insinuating that my concern for Marshall living out his life with CTE is BS simply because I think he’s not a good league footballer is pretty distasteful mate

 

[El_Scorcho]

Well done you’re almost there yes Sav is a shit KPF that’s the point the fact he’s even competing against Marshall is an indictment on Marshall

He's not competing against Marshall, Marshall would have kept his spot on Georgiades return if he was fit and rightly so, he's better by any metric you like.

Statistical outlier you say nice so I guess Hot Toddy must’ve killed it against Essendon then another “statistical outlier” how’d he go? After all that’s the entirety of your point isn’t it? (Looking forward to the mental gymnastics coming up)

The point is that Ratugolea's statistical averages across just a 3 game period, one of which was one of our highest scoring games of the last decade, isn't an accurate reflection of his quality as a player. That's obvious to everyone else who read the posts.

My posts can be rubbish to be fair but insinuating that my concern for Marshall living out his life with CTE is BS simply because I think he’s not a good league footballer is pretty distasteful mate

You can't post in the thread in the way you did after the game and then claim the moral high ground. Plenty of others in the thread managed to question Marshall's effectiveness respectfully. When you show a complete lack of respect to the player over a series of posts, of course your concern doesn't seem genuine. Did you expect it to?

 

[Peninsula Boy]

Doubt there will be a call on his career anytime soon. The innocuous knocks leading to concussions has been very common the last couple of years for Todd. If they club were serious about head injuries, I feel calling time on his career would have happened a lot earlier than now.

I hope you're right but I get the feeling it is serious.

 

[johnnysix]

Valid question. Did the helmet help Brad Ebert?

The AFL would make helmets mandatory under certain conditions in a heartbeat if there was significant evidence to support a lower risk of CTE. It could easily solve a lot of problems for them.

 

[Rigs]

I hope you're right but I get the feeling it is serious.

Agree with you. The club needs to take this seriously

 

[240volt]

The Philthy Marshall thread

 

[drcollossimo]

He's not competing against Marshall, Marshall would have kept his spot on Georgiades return if he was fit and rightly so, he's better by any metric you like.



The point is that Ratugolea's statistical averages across just a 3 game period, one of which was one of our highest scoring games of the last decade, isn't an accurate reflection of his quality as a player. That's obvious to everyone else who read the posts.



You can't post in the thread in the way you did after the game and then claim the moral high ground. Plenty of others in the thread managed to question Marshall's effectiveness respectfully. When you show a complete lack of respect to the player over a series of posts, of course your concern doesn't seem genuine. Did you expect it to?

Ok so not even going to bother defending Marshalls performance in the Essendon smashing good to know thanks shifting those goal posts.

You thought Sav looked great against Carlton didn’t you? Has that only changed now ?

Re the CTE commentary people have been far more critical of Marshall in here and in general im hardly the worst offender but you seem fixated with my responses. I sincerely hope your out there policing the sack Hinkley thread that thing will blow your mind

 

[El_Scorcho]

Ok so not even going to bother defending Marshalls performance in the Essendon smashing good to know thanks shifting those goal posts.

You thought Sav looked great against Carlton didn’t you? Has that only changed now ?

I'm not sure what point you're making here. Sav had a good game against Carlton, someone i'm sure they hadn't planned for, and he's been solid against Sydney and Melbourne. He's played plenty of footy as a forward and we know what he's capable of. If you think he's going to regularly match Marshall's level of performance over the medium to long term (concussion issues aside), there would need to be a pretty significant turnaround in exposed form for one of them.

Re the CTE commentary people have been far more critical of Marshall in here and in general im hardly the worst offender but you seem fixated with my responses. I sincerely hope your out there policing the sack Hinkley thread that thing will blow your mind

I'm responding to you because you posted in the thread recently, including several posts of absolute shit that I disagreed with. You're not the only person I disagree with, I acknowledge i'm probably in the minority here, and you're not the only person i've responded to, your posts were just the strongest yesterday and warranted a response.

If you can find posts in the Hinkley thread where people disrespectfully slam him and then a post later talk about having genuine concerns for his health and welfare, i'd like to see them. There's nothing wrong with venting about a player or coach on a footy forum, we all do it, but you can't in the next breath express concern. If PowerLil suddenly started posting about how she worries for Hinkley's mental health and family life with all the pressure he's under, we'd probably call her out on it, no?

 

[Powerage]

He's not competing against Marshall, Marshall would have kept his spot on Georgiades return if he was fit and rightly so, he's better by any metric you like.

Which metric would you like to choose?

Rat vs Marshall (this season playing forward)
Ave Goals 1.5 vs 1.1
Ave Marks 5.6 vs 4.9
Ave MOL 2.3 vs 1.3
Ave CM More in 3 games than Marshall in the last 10.

The point is that Ratugolea's statistical averages across just a 3 game period, one of which was one of our highest scoring games of the last decade, isn't an accurate reflection of his quality as a player. That's obvious to everyone else who read the posts.

Its a smaller sample size for Rat true but you aid any metric you like and we can only judge each player by their performances up forward. It can also be said that Rat will improve as he gains experience playing in our forward line.

To my eye there is a lot more to work with with Esava up forward. He takes the pressure of Dixon and Georgiades and that, so far, has proven dividend and it is not something the metrics show. Neither do the metric show Rats ability to bring the ball to ground. His key downfall is his kicking for goal. So you have him work with an expert and having daily practice during the preseason.

The key hope with Marshall is that he can get his body right and get his goalkicking back. He will never be the target Rat is who is adept at contested marks and marks on a lead. Sadly, through no fault of his own, he will now always be playing with that concussion shadow over his head.

The big question for me is can we play with four talls this year? Assuming Dixon retires on what I have seen Rat is a better proposition than Lord at this point in time.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Which metric would you like to choose?

Rat vs Marshall (this season playing forward)
Ave Goals 1.5 vs 1.1
Ave Marks 5.6 vs 4.9
Ave MOL 2.3 vs 1.3
Ave CM More in 3 games than Marshall in the last 10.


Its a smaller sample size for Rat true but you aid any metric you like and we can only judge each player by their performances up forward. It can also be said that Rat will improve as he gains experience playing in our forward line.

To my eye there is a lot more to work with with Esava up forward. He takes the pressure of Dixon and Georgiades and that, so far, has proven dividend and it is not something the metrics show. Neither do the metric show Rats ability to bring the ball to ground. His key downfall is his kicking for goal. So you have him work with an expert and having daily practice during the preseason.

The key hope with Marshall is that he can get his body right and get his goalkicking back. He will never be the target Rat is who is adept at contested marks and marks on a lead. Sadly, through no fault of his own, he will now always be playing with that concussion shadow over his head.

The big question for me is can we play with four talls this year? Assuming Dixon retires on what I have seen Rat is a better proposition than Lord at this point in time.

That's 1.0 average goals for Ratugolea over the 3 games, not 1.5.

If we're picking arbitrary games, you can make anyone look better than anyone.

Ratugolea has played 50+ games up forward for a Geelong side who make it far easier for their forwards than we do. The idea that he's going to go up a level is probably pretty fanciful. I think people are overrating what we've seen from Ratugolea over the last 3 games. He played really well as a surprise option against Carlton but when teams have had time to prepare for him, he's been less effective.

If Marshall's concussion issues linger and Georgiades is out for any decent length of time, our key forward line looks very shaky IMO. I think Marshall/Dixon/Ratugolea can be effective in Georgiades absence, but I don't think we can make an effective KPF line without either of Georgiades or Marshall present.

 

[The Hobo]

Ratugolea has played 50+ games up forward for a Geelong side who make it far easier for their forwards than we do. The idea that he's going to go up a level is probably pretty fanciful.

Let's not forget that he spent the last two years playing defence at Geelong, which means the bulk of his games came in 2019-2021, where he was 21-23 years old.

Expecting him to go up a level is expected, and far from fanciful.

 

[Powerade 08]

Contracted till the end of 2029, after that he gets to sue the club for playing him as well. Nice gig if you can get it.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Let's not forget that he spent the last two years playing defence at Geelong, which means the bulk of his games came in 2019-2021, where he was 21-23 years old.

Expecting him to go up a level is expected, and far from fanciful.

Key forward is a harder position to play than key defence. It's the hardest position to play on the ground.

This kind of career progression (failed KPF, switched to defence, changed clubs, back to KPF, success) notably achieved by Jay Schulz is pretty rare. Not impossible, but rare.

That said, Ratugolea could probably do the job as a 3rd KPF if we have 2 other quality players alongside him. A statline of 10d 4m 1g as a 3rd KPF would be okay in that role, and he's a big body to give defences something to worry about.

 

[Duckimus Prime]

He's not competing against Marshall, Marshall would have kept his spot on Georgiades return if he was fit and rightly so, he's better by any metric you like.

The point is that Ratugolea's statistical averages across just a 3 game period, one of which was one of our highest scoring games of the last decade, isn't an accurate reflection of his quality as a player. That's obvious to everyone else who read the posts.

The forward line has looked better with Esava, Georgiades and Dixon.

Its not even just Esava's actual stats himself. When he's at the contest himself he's more of a physical presence than Todd.

When Todd's been an extra at the contest, he's not even looking to compete in it. In earlier years, that's meant Dixon is battling his opponent to bring the ball to ground. This year, its simply meant that Dixon's been out marked by the extra defender.

He gets to contests around Dixon and sets up like a small, while bringing in an extra key defender.

But Dixon but SANFL suspension layoff also seems to be moving better than he was.

 

[Powerage]

That's 1.0 average goals for Ratugolea over the 3 games, not 1.5.

If we're picking arbitrary games, you can make anyone look better than anyone.

Ratugolea has played 50+ games up forward for a Geelong side who make it far easier for their forwards than we do. The idea that he's going to go up a level is probably pretty fanciful. I think people are overrating what we've seen from Ratugolea over the last 3 games. He played really well as a surprise option against Carlton but when teams have had time to prepare for him, he's been less effective.

If Marshall's concussion issues linger and Georgiades is out for any decent length of time, our key forward line looks very shaky IMO. I think Marshall/Dixon/Ratugolea can be effective in Georgiades absence, but I don't think we can make an effective KPF line without either of Georgiades or Marshall present.

I stand corrected. They are virtually equal for goals.

It is not worth writing off Rat as a forward here because he struggled as a forward at Geelong.

1. Firstly, he was between the ages of 19 and 22 when he played as a forward there. I'm pretty sure Hawkins, Marshall, Schultz et. al. were all very average at a similar age.
2. Secondly, yes Geelong make it easier for their forwards but Rat was playing in a forward line dominated by Hawkins and, in 2021, by Cameron. At Port, with a mature body, and at the age of 26, he is playing as the no1 KPF target.
3. Thirdly. With Georgiades, Marshall, possibly Finlayson, Dixon for however long and whoever else we may draft or recruit, his job is not so much to play as a potent goal scoring forward but to take some pressure of the other KPFs and to control the air. Whether he takes marks further up the ground or in the forward 50. With Hinkley it is not something we have done well and it makes a difference.

Even against Melbourne he took 6 marks and had 2 shots at goal. I believe the main issue will be whether he can become at least an average shot at goal. Long term I think he will be more in competition for Lord in that spot than Marshall.

I take your point. We may not be able to rely on Rat as our primary goalkicker. I would like to think Mitch will be on the right side of the injury ledger for years to come. Marshall and Finlayson seem to be in a state of flux regarding their careers based on injury/form. Lord is still an unknown quantity at a young age. I am hopeful that Scully will continue to progress as he has been lately.

 

[The Hobo]

Key forward is a harder position to play than key defence. It's the hardest position to play on the ground.

This kind of career progression (failed KPF, switched to defence, changed clubs, back to KPF, success) notably achieved by Jay Schulz is pretty rare. Not impossible, but rare.

That said, Ratugolea could probably do the job as a 3rd KPF if we have 2 other quality players alongside him. A statline of 10d 4m 1g as a 3rd KPF would be okay in that role, and he's a big body to give defences something to worry about.

What you're missing is the number of opportunities he's generating. If he kicked at AFL standard for accuracy, he'd have a far better goal return. He was also a Ruck/Fwd for much of his time at Geelong.

Let's also not forget he wasn't entirely a failed KPF, he was behind 2 of the greatest forwards of the modern era in Hawkins and Cameron.

I'm not suggesting he's the saviour, but he's far better than his stats indicate.

 

[El_Scorcho]

The forward line has looked better with Esava, Georgiades and Dixon.

Its not even just Esava's actual stats himself. When he's at the contest himself he's more of a physical presence than Todd.

When Todd's been an extra at the contest, he's not even looking to compete in it. In earlier years, that's meant Dixon is battling his opponent to bring the ball to ground. This year, its simply meant that Dixon's been out marked by the extra defender.

He gets to contests around Dixon and sets up like a small, while bringing in an extra key defender.

But Dixon but SANFL suspension layoff also seems to be moving better than he was.

Having a marking contest at all means your forward entry has broken down. Having your 2 big key forwards in competing in the same marking contest is a disaster. Todd is more than capable of blocking space for a key forward to lead into, Ratugolea might become better at it, but our whole system needs to be rebuilt under a new coach where all 4 of the key forwards will have more chance of success.

Ideally Todd is playing further from goal anyway and delivering the ball in for Dixon and Georgiades for the most part.

Ratugolea and Dixon as the marking targets didn't work at all against Melbourne. Our ball movement completely disappeared and we struggled to find targets in transition.

 

[El_Scorcho]

I stand corrected. They are virtually equal for goals.

It is not worth writing off Rat as a forward here because he struggled as a forward at Geelong.

1. Firstly, he was between the ages of 19 and 22 when he played as a forward there. I'm pretty sure Hawkins, Marshall, Schultz et. al. were all very average at a similar age.
2. Secondly, yes Geelong make it easier for their forwards but Rat was playing in a forward line dominated by Hawkins and, in 2021, by Cameron. At Port, with a mature body, and at the age of 26, he is playing as the no1 KPF target.
3. Thirdly. With Georgiades, Marshall, possibly Finlayson, Dixon for however long and whoever else we may draft or recruit, his job is not so much to play as a potent goal scoring forward but to take some pressure of the other KPFs and to control the air. Whether he takes marks further up the ground or in the forward 50. With Hinkley it is not something we have done well and it makes a difference.

Even against Melbourne he took 6 marks and had 2 shots at goal. I believe the main issue will be whether he can become at least an average shot at goal. Long term I think he will be more in competition for Lord in that spot than Marshall.

I take your point. We may not be able to rely on Rat as our primary goalkicker. I would like to think Mitch will be on the right side of the injury ledger for years to come. Marshall and Finlayson seem to be in a state of flux regarding their careers based on injury/form. Lord is still an unknown quantity at a young age. I am hopeful that Scully will continue to progress as he has been lately.

Agree that Rat could be a perfectly servicable big bodied 3rd KPF/2nd ruck and that he's probably more in competition with Lord.

 

[drcollossimo]

I'm not sure what point you're making here. Sav had a good game against Carlton, someone i'm sure they hadn't planned for, and he's been solid against Sydney and Melbourne. He's played plenty of footy as a forward and we know what he's capable of. If you think he's going to regularly match Marshall's level of performance over the medium to long term (concussion issues aside), there would need to be a pretty significant turnaround in exposed form for one of them.



I'm responding to you because you posted in the thread recently, including several posts of absolute shit that I disagreed with. You're not the only person I disagree with, I acknowledge i'm probably in the minority here, and you're not the only person i've responded to, your posts were just the strongest yesterday and warranted a response.

If you can find posts in the Hinkley thread where people disrespectfully slam him and then a post later talk about having genuine concerns for his health and welfare, i'd like to see them. There's nothing wrong with venting about a player or coach on a footy forum, we all do it, but you can't in the next breath express concern. If PowerLil suddenly started posting about how she worries for Hinkley's mental health and family life with all the pressure he's under, we'd probably call her out on it, no?

There are no “concussion issues aside” issues for Marshall now, he has problems with concussion and it reminds me of Brad Ebert tbh

I’m not the only one who doesn’t think Marshall competes. Tim Ginevar is quite vocal about it when he calls our games so unless you and Philthy think you’re better judges of footy talent than Tim I’m pretty comfortable with my thoughts on his performance

If I had my time again would I post a bit differently Saturday night? yea I probably would but they doesn’t detract from the fact his form this season (aside from a couple of games and by that I mean he’s kicked almost half of all his goals against Richmond and West Coast) has largely been poor, given this latest set back it’s probably time to hang em up for everybody concerned

 

[El_Scorcho]

What you're missing is the number of opportunities he's generating. If he kicked at AFL standard for accuracy, he'd have a far better goal return. He was also a Ruck/Fwd for much of his time at Geelong.

Let's also not forget he wasn't entirely a failed KPF, he was behind 2 of the greatest forwards of the modern era in Hawkins and Cameron.

I'm not suggesting he's the saviour, but he's far better than his stats indicate.

Rat has had a lot of shots at goal from 40+ metres out, it's fairly low percentage stuff generally. I don't think he's had a shot from inside 40 in the last few games. At 26, I don't really see him significantly improving his set shots unless we completely rebuild his routine.

Todd had the 4th highest average marks inside 50 in the league last year and is currently 11th in that stat. But our system generates shots from long distance or on an angle.

You could argue he wasn't a failed KPF, but he never averaged a goal a game in his 4 years at Geelong. He didn't take many marks. Marshall gets massacred on this board for a significantly better all round return.

 

[JimmyBC]

Rat wasn't a defender at Geelong for 2 years it was less than 18 months and most of it at VFL level

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

This thread is exhausting

The comments at ~4500th post are basically the same as 1000 lol

 

[240volt]

This thread is exhausting

The comments at ~4500th post are basically the same as 1000 lol

This thread makes my thumb sore.

 

[davesnothere]

Is there a player who has come off the ground with concussion while wearing a helmet?