Analysis "Play the kids"

[Farmer2Goggin]

This is a fantastic point and one I was thinking about before... and say Jansen comes in this week with Joel out, and goes really well... people will say 'See he should have been there all along, Scotts got no idea derp derp!'

When for all we know the extra games in the 2s and him developing and working on what the club is asking him to do could be the difference between him making a difference in the 1s and just chasing tail

Seriously ? If as you say he comes in and goes well......what if he keeps doing that in the 1's?
He has had injury set backs but he was our second pick and this is his second year in the system - there are 8 games left , he has played well over his last few games , we have played shit 2 weeks in a row - if we don't debut him soon when will we?
He and Cripps were line ball at Colts in their draft year - surely it's time to see what he has to offer , we aren't exactly clearance experts this season and he does post good clearance numbers when we play him in the guts.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Think we've got it nearly right. Would like to have seen probably one more under 50 gamer playing every week though. Hard to see how we'll actually improve next year without trying a few more young players.
Unless we definitely getting Danger.

 

[Partridge]

The team has played shit 2 weeks in a row- make that 2 games in a row.
Surely we have to react at selection this week?
Hawks sent Sewell to the 2's last season , Roos dropped Thomas and put Boomer in the vest.
What are our standards and what are we going to do for those who fall short , we can't accept playing like we have 3 weeks in a row can we

The dropped him during the finals too. After a game they won. Then he got delisted. Tells you something right there.

 

[Live in hope]

Pure_Ownage is well capable of answering your questions, but here's my answers to your questions….

Hamling couldn't break into a side that went 17 and 5 last year…when your going that well, you don't drop well performed players to give a gig to a guy who performed moderately at VFL level…and whose body was clearly not ready for the rigors of AFL football last year. Interestingly, a few games in the AFL with the Dogs where he has performed adequately and now he has broken down, even with another pre-season under his belt. Perhaps that's why….

Jansen...in the best on 4 occasions in 12 at VFL level answers your own question..needs to keep working...

Kolo is a developing player who wasn't ready last year ( see Hamling above) and who should get more opportunities this year.

Walker….25 games…24 forgettable ones.

It could be argued that the well managed development of Thurlow and Bews has contributed to their ability to handle the pressure of AFL football as well as they have. That may well apply to Kolo and Jansen as well in the future….we shall see...

There is an exodus of young players leaving Geelong???

Whats Motlop got to do with it? apart from pointing out his well orchestrated management that produced a quality player.

Seems to me that you just want to play kids because their kids and to hell with the consequences …on them personally, and on team performance…. none of the players you mentioned would change the course of the game at AFL level.

It appears management of developing players isn't your strong suit.

PO's summary was spot on, and deserves a re-read .

Think this post is mostly right.

Can't remember Geelong letting that many players go over my 40 years as a fan who developed into great players elsewhere. Don't think that Hamling will be in that category.

That said - I think we did miss an opportunity not playing Hamling for at least one game to see if there was any sign for potential value add or chemistry with the seniors. Sometimes it only needs 2 or 3 involvements to see something. Sure we were 17 - 5 last year and Hamling didn't deserve on form to displace one of the 4 big defenders. My issue is that Scott and MC didn't use some flexible thinking and perhaps give hamling a game starting on the HFF perhaps with a couple of stints in the back half. Wouldn't have lost anything against some of the later games in 2014 from Brown and Kersten.

Agree that Jansen needs more development but again I think one game in the top level, perhaps later this year, could indicate if there is any chemistry- tell us a bit about whether he is worth persisting with.

Think your assessment is also a little tough on Walker. A reasonable number of competitive games amongst the 25 for a player of that age and that experience (particularly having to pinch hit in ruck in quite a few). I remember that Hawkins was around that standard (not many touches, usually 1 or 2 goals a game) for his first 50 odd games.

 

[cynical]

Guess we all see things differently, to me he's been one of our hardest workers all year, obviously not 100% fit but trying his guts out regardless, and I actually reckon he's cut back on the flashy stuff as well.

The "incident" with Walker on the boundary wasn't a good look but I'm not about to hang him out to dry for that.

the walker incident, the incident with melksham, all the other incidents of him punching and fighting with other opponents instead of focusing on the game

they are all small things but they add up

 

[Partridge]

Think your assessment is also a little tough on Walker. A reasonable number of competitive games amongst the 25 for a player of that age and that experience (particularly having to pinch hit in ruck in quite a few). I remember that Hawkins was around that standard (not many touches, usually 1 or 2 goals a game) for his first 50 odd games.

Walker has showed some promise. He's a good contested mark, and when he has a free leap at the ball he looks quite threatening. But there isn't much else to his game right now. And while Hawkins was inconsistent early, he showed way, way, way more than Walker has.

 

[Teriyakicat]

Walker has showed some promise. He's a good contested mark, and when he has a free leap at the ball he looks quite threatening. But there isn't much else to his game right now. And while Hawkins was inconsistent early, he showed way, way, way more than Walker has.

All I can remember of Hawkins in his early games was his rubber chest.
I never imagined how quickly that would change with the club showing faith in him.

 

[Partridge]

All I can remember of Hawkins in his early games was his rubber chest.
I never imagined how quickly that would change with the club showing faith in him.

He had good numbers early though TC. 3 goals on debut, 4 in his 2nd game, 4 in his 5th game, 5 in his 12th game, 3 in his 13th game. Even in his third season in 2009 he held down the second key forward slot pretty well.

 

[numbwombat]

He had good numbers early though TC. 3 goals on debut, 4 in his 2nd game, 4 in his 5th game, 5 in his 12th game, 3 in his 13th game. Even in his third season in 2009 he held down the second key forward slot pretty well.

I don't disagree, but Walker would look better being fed by the 2008-2011 group, too. Hawk's averaging 2 goals a game this year, and only kicked more than two in 3 of his 11 games.

Walker's looked pretty poor this year but on last year's form I think he could make a serviceable or better CHF at AFL level. The part-time rucking is ruining him much like it did Hawkins in 2010 (improved Hawkins at ground level in the long run though, IMHO).

 

[Willo_]

Seriously ? If as you say he comes in and goes well......what if he keeps doing that in the 1's?
He has had injury set backs but he was our second pick and this is his second year in the system - there are 8 games left , he has played well over his last few games , we have played shit 2 weeks in a row - if we don't debut him soon when will we?
He and Cripps were line ball at Colts in their draft year - surely it's time to see what he has to offer , we aren't exactly clearance experts this season and he does post good clearance numbers when we play him in the guts.

All I'm saying is that for all we know the extra time in the VFL can help develop players and make them better players when they do break into the side (and therefore potentially more likely to do well)

I wasn't being specific to Jansen I just mentioned him as an example

 

[cats23]

Wasn't sure which thread would be best for a bit of "Lang love", but seems appropriate to put it here.

Appears that getting some games and confidence into him has paid off nicely to date...

"To this point of the season, Lang is …
* Ranked first at Geelong and 23rd in the AFL for score assists (19)
* Fifth at Geelong for score involvements (63)
* Fourth among Rising Star-eligible players and sixth at Geelong for inside-50s (38), including a season high of six against North Melbourne last weekend
* Seventh at Geelong for tackles (41), including a season-high of six against Essendon in round 10
* Seventh among Rising Star-eligible players for total kicks (105)
* Ninth among Rising Star-eligible player for total effective disposals (127)"

from http://www.geelongcats.com.au/news/2015-07-15/cat-stats-lang-looms-large

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

All I'm saying is that for all we know the extra time in the VFL can help develop players and make them better players when they do break into the side (and therefore potentially more likely to do well)

I wasn't being specific to Jansen I just mentioned him as an example

Cheers Willo_
I'm just keen to see him debut as I saw a few Colts games over here featuring both JJ and Cripps.
I think he can make a difference once he is given a chance to adjust to the pace of the game in the 1's

 

[Teriyakicat]

Jimmy Bartel had something to say about playing the kids in an interview recently (article published on the AFL website):

"I don't think they want to be handed games. They want to earn them and feel they belong at AFL level because they got there on good form," Bartel said.

 

[darren forssman]

Wasn't sure which thread would be best for a bit of "Lang love", but seems appropriate to put it here.

Appears that getting some games and confidence into him has paid off nicely to date...

"To this point of the season, Lang is …
* Ranked first at Geelong and 23rd in the AFL for score assists (19)
* Fifth at Geelong for score involvements (63)
* Fourth among Rising Star-eligible players and sixth at Geelong for inside-50s (38), including a season high of six against North Melbourne last weekend
* Seventh at Geelong for tackles (41), including a season-high of six against Essendon in round 10
* Seventh among Rising Star-eligible players for total kicks (105)
* Ninth among Rising Star-eligible player for total effective disposals (127)"

from http://www.geelongcats.com.au/news/2015-07-15/cat-stats-lang-looms-large

yeah, but where does he rank in the almighty "pressure acts"?

 

[catempire]

yeah, but where does he rank in the almighty "pressure acts"?

5th.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

We'd have more kids if we didn't have a number a permanently injured players on the list.

 

[FredLeDeux]

We'd have more kids if we didn't have a number a permanently injured players on the list.

Yes, but they wouldn't be getting a game, because all the permanently injured players would be playing.

 

[darren forssman]

5th.

mightily impressed with all the others but not that so much.

 

[FredLeDeux]

mightily impressed with all the others but not that so much.

The whole list is actually a classic example of "Sneaky Stats", the way they shift from "at Geelong", to "in the AFL", to "among RS-eligible players", just to make them look better.
He's been going alright though.

 

[darren forssman]

The whole list is actually a classic example of "Sneaky Stats", the way they shift from "at Geelong", to "in the AFL", to "among RS-eligible players", just to make them look better.
He's been going alright though.

for a comparison against just "rising stars" scroll down to 2105 statistical rankings:

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-geelong-cats--darcy-lang

but agree, he has been going alright.

 

[TheJimmyCartel]

The sky doesn't fall with Kolo in, Rivers out. He had a great last qtr too, couple of clutch moments.

Should not go out of the side.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

The sky doesn't fall with Kolo in, Rivers out. He had a great last qtr too, couple of clutch moments.

Should not go out of the side.

He was good, considering it was only his second AFL game. Imagine if he'd spent most of his year in the AFL side...

 

[TheJimmyCartel]

He was good, considering it was only his second AFL game. Imagine if he'd spent most of his year in the AFL side...

Yep, should stay in.

Would like to see Smedts in for Gregson, has been great for a first year but his form has tapered over the last 4 games which isn't surprising. Let him play out the year in the VFL unless he hits a purple patch there and let him reload for his second season. We need to see what Smedts has to offer now.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

The sky doesn't fall with Kolo in, Rivers out. He had a great last qtr too, couple of clutch moments.

Should not go out of the side.

Agree 100%.

 

[Teriyakicat]

The sky doesn't fall with Kolo in, Rivers out. He had a great last qtr too, couple of clutch moments.

Should not go out of the side.

Very composed- reminded me of Guthrie's, Thurlow's, Bews' entry into AFL - seems to me that the club get these boys with just the right amount of confidence before they play them. They aren't cocky but they're just so confident with the ball that they seem to slot in seamlessly.