Opinion Player list management and game plan 2019 part 2

[Adz2332]

We don't and we won't. Hopefully wait till the last second and make Polec sweat.

id rather chuck in a third, get the top 10 pick and try and use it to get higher in the draft. its fine that we can trade picks up to the draft etc but id rather have it now just incase we can use a hombsch pick or something to help us move up etc

 

[Port01]

give it a break, maybe other clubs know what we know hence why we arent throwing a massive contract at him.

to be fair, this is the correct reaction for talking about the baby shark song.

 

[Holden Hillbilly]

Harley Bennell to be sacked by the dockers.

Hmmmm....

 

[Ford Fairlane]

So I see that Wingard comment as something like this....

"We put Wingard on the table, thinking he might net us a huge return, likely 2 first round picks, 1 of which in the 5-10 range. Clubs haven't felt he is worth that much and as such we will hold onto him. Chad probably wouldn't have left anyway but we thought it was our duty to try and cash in on his talent for *insert reasons* while we can"

Or alternatively Chad's management tells Port in advance of new contract negotiations that they think he could get upwards of $900K from interstate clubs and broadcasts that value through media networks. His manager says Chad wouldn't expect you to match that but get close and we are in business. Port says, okay we think there are aspects of his commitment that don't tally with that amount but you check with other clubs and come back to us with what they're offering. We will negotiate from that point. If you get an unbeatable offer and he wants to go, we will try to work a trade.

Now I understand Chad doesn't come out of that scenario smelling of roses from breakfast to bedtime and the club doesn't come across as a complete shitbag organisation which seems to be the preference of many people, but it is no less realistic than your interpretation.

 

[Adz2332]

no way bennell gets picked up again if dockers sack him.
the fact they just signed him and now letting him go speaks volumes!

 

[raman]

Question. How come free agency compo picks are being bestowed before the end of the FA period? Weren't they previously given based on the total balance of a club's FA activity? For example if West Coast brought in an RFA at similar value to Lycett, they wouldn't get compo?

 

[PatientMental]

Question. How come free agency compo picks are being bestowed before the end of the FA period? Weren't they previously given based on the total balance of a club's FA activity? For example if West Coast brought in an RFA at similar value to Lycett, they wouldn't get compo?

They have had enough of a sample size now that they can do it based entirely off of historical evidence*


*This is not the case because the reason is entirely fabricated because we all know the AFL picks and chooses the compensation ad hoc depending on what they feel it's worth to aid teams/the trade week as a whole.

 

[Adz2332]

look at motlop last year. youll never convince me that the afl didnt just hand the pick to geelong on the proviso they send it to GC for ablett.
Its all crap. It needs to be scrapped!

 

[raman]

They have had enough of a sample size now that they can do it based entirely off of historical evidence*


*This is not the case because the reason is entirely fabricated because we all know the AFL picks and chooses the compensation ad hoc depending on what they feel it's worth to aid teams/the trade week as a whole.

Seems ludicrous. You have to think clubs who lose players first and bring players in later are always going to be at an advantage there.

 

[DaTBird187]

Can we get Harley Bennell for a cheap deal? Back ourselves to fix his injuries and off field issues. Won’t cost barely anything. Low risk, high reward.

I think our Dickhead quota is full.

 

[Chrizzt]

Question. How come free agency compo picks are being bestowed before the end of the FA period? Weren't they previously given based on the total balance of a club's FA activity? For example if West Coast brought in an RFA at similar value to Lycett, they wouldn't get compo?

My understanding is the AFL are letting clubs know the compo based solely off that one transaction. If the club were to lose/gain another FA the pick would then be altered. So the club still doesn't receive the compo pick until the end of the FA period.

 

[Nemisis]

I think our Dickhead quota is full.

But apparently Channel 7 are willing to pay his salary

 

[raman]

My understanding is the AFL are letting clubs know the compo based solely off that one transaction. If the club were to lose/gain another FA the pick would then be altered. So the club still doesn't receive the compo pick until the end of the FA period.

I would hope that’s the case.

 

[PatientMental]

Seems ludicrous. You have to think clubs who lose players first and bring players in later are always going to be at an advantage there.

Yep, and it allows for the clubs to be like "AFL we will match this if you don't bump up the compensation"
and the AFL to be like "He's a band 3 compensation"
and the clubs to be like "We need a band 1 or 2 (considering it's sometimes the same pick)
and the AFL is like 'yes dear'

Look at West Coast, their bands look like this (free agency compensations)
Band 1 - Pick 19 (First round)
Band 2 - Pick 19 (End of first round)
Band 3 - Pick 37 (Second round)
Band 4 - Pick 37 (End of second round)
Band 5 - Pick 55 (Third round)

Gold Coast
Band 1 - Pick 1
Band 2 - Pick 19
Band 3 - Pick 19
Band 4 - Pick 37
Band 5 - Pick 37

The AFL doesn't like the fact that the compensations for some clubs are the same thing between bands, so they are happy to be more flexible when it comes to teams.

 

[Adz2332]

I would hope that’s the case.

it is 100% the case

 

[It Just Is]

Chris Davies did nothing to assure me that Chad Wingard will be at Port Adelaide beyond 2019.

How the **** has it come to this?

 

[PatientMental]

Chris Davies did nothing to assure me that Chad Wingard will be at Port Adelaide beyond 2019.

How the **** has it come to this?

Probably because they want him to earn that 800-1m price tag he's seeking? An AA, B&F and a top 3-5 placing in the Brownlow next year will probably be enough.

 

[JUSTWORK]

no way bennell gets picked up again if dockers sack him.
the fact they just signed him and now letting him go speaks volumes!

Would suggest he has done something between signing a contact extension earlier in the year and now to warrant being moved on.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Or alternatively Chad's management tells Port in advance of new contract negotiations that they think he could get upwards of $900K from interstate clubs and broadcasts that value through media networks. His manager says Chad wouldn't expect you to match that but get close and we are in business. Port says, okay we think there are aspects of his commitment that don't tally with that amount but you check with other clubs and come back to us with what they're offering. We will negotiate from that point. If you get an unbeatable offer and he wants to go, we will try to work a trade.

Now I understand Chad doesn't come out of that scenario smelling of roses from breakfast to bedtime and the club doesn't come across as a complete shitbag organisation which seems to be the preference of many people, but it is no less realistic than your interpretation.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle, but we've still handled this in a very irresponsible way by not declaring that Chad is a required player.

The worst case scenario here is that he demands a trade now and we've spent the offseason lowering his value with nonchalance, with his most likely suitors unable to do a deal due to not having the draft currency. The equal worst case scenario is that he speaks with a bunch of opposition coaches who offer him the world and he gets a huge offer in the free agency next year, but for ~reasons~ we only get an end of 1st round compo pick so we're forced to match anyway.

The worst possible way to lose a player is for him to demand a trade to a specific club, because it's always difficult to get market value. This is the situation we seem to be engineering for ourselves. If he demands to be traded to the Bulldogs, we won't get adequate value for him and next year you can bet your bottom dollar that free agency compo is either scrapped or nerfed so we end up losing him for basically nothing and can't even cash in that way.

Just tell him he's a required player and he won't be traded. Then if he forces a move it's at least outwardly against our will and we can negotiate from that position.

 

[PatientMental]

Would suggest he has done something between signing a contact extension earlier in the year and now to warrant being moved on.

Or the person who wanted him gone has only been hired in that time?

Bennell extends with 1 year contract on August 17th
Peter Bell hired on September 25th.
Bennell set to be moved on - October 9th.

 

[TeeKray]

Or alternatively Chad's management tells Port in advance of new contract negotiations that they think he could get upwards of $900K from interstate clubs and broadcasts that value through media networks. His manager says Chad wouldn't expect you to match that but get close and we are in business. Port says, okay we think there are aspects of his commitment that don't tally with that amount but you check with other clubs and come back to us with what they're offering. We will negotiate from that point. If you get an unbeatable offer and he wants to go, we will try to work a trade.

Now I understand Chad doesn't come out of that scenario smelling of roses from breakfast to bedtime and the club doesn't come across as a complete shitbag organisation which seems to be the preference of many people, but it is no less realistic than your interpretation.

The problem with this is that in this scenario Chad is being treated like some type of mid range player who we sort of wouldn't mind keeping, but only at the right price, rather than the franchise player with very rare levels of talent that he actually is who we should be desperate to keep hold of at all costs.

Regardless of these perceived commitment issues, surely our forward planning had assumed Chad would be a $900k range player by this stage of his career anyway? If so, what's the issue? Build some performance clauses into the contract and get it done.

 

[Duckimus Prime]

Question. How come free agency compo picks are being bestowed before the end of the FA period? Weren't they previously given based on the total balance of a club's FA activity? For example if West Coast brought in an RFA at similar value to Lycett, they wouldn't get compo?

Nah compos are on a per player transaction basis. If West Coast sign any free agent during this period then they lose the compensation for Lycett.

 

[Willsy10]

Chad Wingard is worth nowhere near $900k a season. What has he done recently to deserve anywhere near that? Would that make him our highest paid player by some margin?

I've had my issues with the club over a number of things recently but seems that everyone is quick to paint the club as the villains in this Wingard saga, but i don't think that's the case at all.

The club has no control over Chad's twitter account, he seems to be the one adding fuel to the fire.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

The problem with this is that in this scenario Chad is being treated like some type of mid range player who we sort of wouldn't mind keeping, but only at the right price, rather than the franchise player with very rare levels of talent that he actually is who we should be desperate to keep hold of at all costs.

Regardless of these perceived commitment issues, surely our forward planning had assumed Chad would be a $900k range player by this stage of his career anyway? If so, what's the issue? Build some performance clauses into the contract and get it done.

A mid-range player doesn't get paid $900K to $1M a year. And if you expect to be paid that you have to be worth it.

This is like the Polec case. The money is there to pay him, but does he do enough to earn it? The issues are out there and have been discussed.

I'm not going to argue the club's case, they have a much better idea than me where their concerns lie. But that sort of money is elite level and it is debatable whether he is that level elite.

People keep talking about rare levels of elite talent, but to me those players win games for you like the games where we lost to Hawthorn, Adelaide and West Coast this year. They do everything in the pre-season and more and drive themselves and their team mates to achieve their very best.

Anyway it's just an alternative scenario to the one that people seem so keen to paint that makes the club out as a villain. I haven't heard anyone say they don't want Chad at the club, in fact completely the opposite.

As El_Scorcho posted the truth is likely - as is usually the case - balanced somewhere between the two perspectives. I would add though that the club can't just come out with a blanket statement that Chad is a required player. Then they are basically conceding that he is worth what his management is asking, when they have some doubts.

End of the day, I still want and expect Chad to be at Port for the foreseeable future. There might be a bit of scar tissue but nothing irreversible or at least too irritating.

Although it is a long trade period ...

 

[Willsy10]

The problem with this is that in this scenario Chad is being treated like some type of mid range player who we sort of wouldn't mind keeping, but only at the right price, rather than the franchise player with very rare levels of talent that he actually is who we should be desperate to keep hold of at all costs.

Regardless of these perceived commitment issues, surely our forward planning had assumed Chad would be a $900k range player by this stage of his career anyway? If so, what's the issue? Build some performance clauses into the contract and get it done.

Yes he does, but how often do we see it.