Player Review vs North

[forwardflanker]

Thompson beat Cloke in several 1-on-1 contests despite being clearly outsized (championdata gave them both 2 contested marks). Given the delivery Cloke got from your midfield, no defender was ever going to stop him completely. Thompson managed to curb Cloke's influence while also giving us plenty on the rebound. Take into account that his job was made harder by McMahon's omission. I figure you guys probably don't rate McMahon but I personally rate him as one of our five or six most important players, and he and Thompson usually share a number of duties which Thompson had to do by himself today. Without Thompson we get beaten by much more than two goals today.

If Swallow played for a Collingwood/Hawthorn/Geelong, he would be amongst the favourites for the Brownlow right now. I say that as somebody who has been on the Pendlebury bandwagon for years.

Cloke had 18 disposals, 8 marks, 7 shots on goal - it's pretty optimistic to suggest that Thompson curbed his influence. Being outsized is no excuse when his role in the side is to stop the oppositions key forward. He may have done better than expected on the rebound but that doesn't make for the fact that his primary role is the side is to stop Cloke and when Cloke was one of the pies best I find it difficult to rate Thompson's game. I thought our delivery to Cloke was slightly better than usual but we're still not the benchmark when it comes to midfield kicking to forwards, we rely on both Lynch and Cloke to win one v one a lot or to at least provide contests for a small players to crumb which they both did well today. The fact that you rely so much on an "outsized" defender is a pretty huge weakness given the value of gorilla forwards go up in finals time and that most teams in the 8 have at least 1.

Regarding Swallow, I would have thought playing for North would be a help rather than hindrance when it comes to brownlow voting. Your midfield is competitive but clearly lacking in A list talent, he is picking up the greatest share of brownlow votes in your 22 than anyone else imo. If he comes to Collingwood he immediately goes behind Swan and Pendlebury in terms of share of votes, maybe even Beams. Not to mention guys like Thomas, Sidebottom and Ball who also steal votes. The same though to a lesser extent would be for all the other clubs with big midfields I would have though. The lack of competition for votes at North would make up for the 3 or 4 games less winning games that Swallow would play at if he were in a top 4-6 side - I think that's what you were getting at?

 

[half_back_flank]

Yeah, I though Cloke clearly had the better of Thompson.

He should have got a fist on Swan's mark in the goal square too.

 

[Hardas]

Highly encouraged by that effort with so many first-choice players missing and decent opposition...
Thought Browny's effort was better than some are giving him credit for...
Think some are underrating Swallow [what were the clearance numbers again?]...
Can't believe anyone thinks Thompson 'curbed Cloke's influence' [only some of his goalkicking did that]...
Got all my food and drinks paid for by anti-Collingwood people at the bar where I watched...

 

[Mungo Mulligan Stew]

Highly encouraged by that effort with so many first-choice players missing and decent opposition...
Thought Browny's effort was better than some are giving him credit for...
Think some are underrating Swallow [what were the clearance numbers again?]...
Can't believe anyone thinks Thompson 'curbed Cloke's influence' [only some of his goalkicking did that]...
Got all my food and drinks paid for by anti-Collingwood people at the bar where I watched...

Pub bets?

 

[Shawt]

I've never seen Toovery use his pace more effectively than he did against North. He must have built up a truck load of confidence, because instead of just closing in, he used it to break away or to attack a contest like never before.

Can't remember which quarter it was, but his one touch pickup outside 50 in a pack that resulted in a goal had me on my feet. In a game where fumbles were the order of the day, clean hands always earn respect

 

[Beary17]

Great write up snoop, was a great game to watch on tv, some of our coast to coast goals were sensational.

 

[Hardas]

Pub bets?

One-sided ones where they kept telling me to 'face facts' with our missing players and injuries in the game... I just kept saying let's see how it works out...they started saying things like, "If Collingwood win from here, I'll blah blah..." Thank you linesmen; thank you ball boys...

 

[HFF]

Snoop you are a top poster but we both must've been watching different games to view Frost. He was quite ordinary.

He trailed his man often all game even before the commentary team picked up on it. He often bombed and panicked when he got hold of the football Maxwell style. A couple of his efforts showed no desperation especially his effort on Robbie Tarrant on the wing where Frost jogged back hoping someone would do his job and Tarrant continued to run hard and ended up receiving the ball and running into an open goal. Also the effort late in the game where Petrie took a strong contested mark virtually in the square, Frost was standing and watching when he needed to come 3rd up and help Brown. Petrie goaled and they were within 10 points.

That effort on Tarrant was also showed on slow replay and looked so bad I couldn't stop thinking about it. Tarrant just kept pushing on and Frost was in a slow jog on the wing watching his man stroll into an open goal coming from the same marking contest they both contested on centre wing.

 

[soyouthink10]

I will tell you who put in a shocker, Nathan Buckey at the press conference.

 

[Pies_10]

5. Pendles
4. Cloke
3. Toovey
2. Sidebottom
1. O'Brien

 

[Pies_10]

I will tell you who put in a shocker, Nathan Buckey at the press conference.

Yeah same with your sore loser of a coach.

 

[Bay Pie]

From me some general observations:

O'Brien has found a new role on the wing. His defensive work in the air on the half forward line was the reason we didn't bleed d50 rebounds. With a bit of luck those long pings would be goals. He was so so important and I think will be for this season. Definite best 22.

Understated by most. As I think you stated in another thread, he played Maxy's role across halfback but on the half forward line. We leaked massively there last year. Harry read the play very well many times and will put opposition analysts to work to get around this.

 

[Vicky Park]

I reckon Harry looks fitter, trimmer. Said at the Collingwood Convention on Monday night that he had been on a vegetarian diet since late 2012. Although in typical H fashion, preferred to describe it as a non-meat diet. I dont care what he eats, as long as he keeps playing like that. Also has a new girlfriend, apparently after a long period of abstinence (he told us this too at the Convention). Bit too much information there H, but might also be improving his mood somewhat...

 

[Knightmare]

Thompson beat Cloke in several 1-on-1 contests despite being clearly outsized (championdata gave them both 2 contested marks). Given the delivery Cloke got from your midfield, no defender was ever going to stop him completely. Thompson managed to curb Cloke's influence while also giving us plenty on the rebound. Take into account that his job was made harder by McMahon's omission. I figure you guys probably don't rate McMahon but I personally rate him as one of our five or six most important players, and he and Thompson usually share a number of duties which Thompson had to do by himself today. Without Thompson we get beaten by much more than two goals today.



If Swallow played for a Collingwood/Hawthorn/Geelong, he would be amongst the favourites for the Brownlow right now. I say that as somebody who has been on the Pendlebury bandwagon for years.

I agree Swallow is quality. I view him a clear top 10 midfielder in the competition and I agree he should be in that browlow conversation. Also McMahon I strongly agree is an exceptionally underrated defender and North Melbourne's best in the back half.

Thompson on the other hand I don't rate so highly. While he can at times win some of 1v1s and is one of the very best rebounding key defenders in the competition he is exceptionally poor defensively and can get man-handled by the better key forwards of the competition. He just gave up eight scoring shots on Cloke (note one shot went out on the full)! That's terrible for an established key defender! He bleeds opposition impact like no other player of his position.

Thompson also had Franklin go off on him in that 13 goal, 11 mark game last year.

It's really incredible that Thompson can be included in the champion data team of the year. The reason is because by position he finds more ball than anyone else, it's a shame stopping your direct opponent doesn't get included in the equation, particularly for a defender I find this incredibly disappointing and frankly staggering. It's like they don't watch any football when a guy who is such a defensive liability can be included in a team of the year.

 

[Knightmare]

Harry's conditioning despite what many would think has always been excellent.

The past 3 preseasons he has been right up there in all the testing (including endurance) so that's always been there for him. It's a large reason as a defender why he rarely needed to have a breather on the bench.

So with his running game on a wing he is exceptionally suited.

It has always been a strange thing with Harry where he has looked exceptional on the track but then in game just hasn't over the past couple of years put together the form excepted.

I've found it's always been that large turning circle and a lack of agility - despite his straight line speed and endurance that has made it hard for Harry the defender in those defensive assignments against the smalls in particular. On a wing it doesn't require as much change of direction and it is more straightline so it will also suit his running patterns much better.

 

[footy42]

Today was actually my third live game after Thursday night's game in the MCG and the Hawthorn Adelaide prelim final last year. I enjoyed today hugely and I thought the atmosphere was pretty good although that was probably because I was emotionally involved in a game for the first time. I do prefer the MCG though. I seem to have the knack of attending cracking games so hopefully that'll continue for the season!

I've been following the AFL for about 10 years since Kennelly really started making an impact and I picked the Pies to support as I had seen Clarke play underage footy in Ireland and followed his story closely when he moved over. Really looking forward to experiencing the full season up close over here and I'm trying to get to as many games as possible (heading to the MCG again tomorrow!)

Wondered why you knew so much about the Irish guys!! Which part of Ireland you come from?

 

[forwardflanker]

Snoop you are a top poster but we both must've been watching different games to view Frost. He was quite ordinary.

He trailed his man often all game even before the commentary team picked up on it. He often bombed and panicked when he got hold of the football Maxwell style. A couple of his efforts showed no desperation especially his effort on Robbie Tarrant on the wing where Frost jogged back hoping someone would do his job and Tarrant continued to run hard and ended up receiving the ball and running into an open goal. Also the effort late in the game where Petrie took a strong contested mark virtually in the square, Frost was standing and watching when he needed to come 3rd up and help Brown. Petrie goaled and they were within 10 points.

That effort on Tarrant was also showed on slow replay and looked so bad I couldn't stop thinking about it. Tarrant just kept pushing on and Frost was in a slow jog on the wing watching his man stroll into an open goal coming from the same marking contest they both contested on centre wing.

His opponent was about worst on ground. I doubt you'll find many agreeing with you, he was super solid on debut.

 

[HFF]

His opponent was about worst on ground. I doubt you'll find many agreeing with you, he was super solid on debut.

He was fortunate North mids weren't able to hit his opponent on the lead otherwise be would have been in big strife.

His performance is being vastly overrated here.

 

[Boris the Contradiction]

He was fortunate North mids weren't able to hit his opponent on the lead otherwise be would have been in big strife.

His performance is being vastly overrated here.

He wasn't as bad as you have said but I agree Frost was one of our worst yesterday. He did, however, punctuate the mistakes with some really impressive stuff and I think he shows a lot of promise. His speed is super impressive and he is a great size, but he lacks awareness in the contest (this should come). How tall is he? He seems to have the physique of an athletic ruckman.

There were two times when he left his man all alone in the forward fifty to aerially contest in situations where we had a numerical advantage in the contest already. We only paid for it once but it was incredibly naive.

Toovey's first half was special with his pressure acts and also with his work going forward. I thought he really understood that with Shaw out of the side, he needed to play a bigger role....and he did.

Sidebottom showed real leadership which was impressive as well. It has always been obvious he is a special talent but he has often floated through games, done a few good things, but not had a consistent impact on the contest. It wasn't his best game for us, but I thought Rusty came of age last night in all the areas that matter.

 

[Dale_Thomas]

Sincs, just can't have him in our side at all.

Very harsh I reckon. Sinker's constant pressure forced quite a few turnovers from the opposition. His constant harassing of the ball carrier is great. Doesn't give them any room to breath.

He set up one great goal for Sidebottom, and provided a beautiful lace out kick for Clokey in the 1st which was unfortunately paid a free kick against us.

Although he didn't hit the score board tonight, I think he played his role well.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

Still stand by my opinion of Frost's game against West Coast at Subi but I must say he was very, very good tonight and will be a real asset if he can keep the form up.

We barely had a poor player yesterday.

 

[Axl the great]

Few observations from the game, Harry O on a wing works, was calling for this in a thread and so glad it has happened.

Dwyer- really assured, looks a solid composed accumulater, not going to be a star but a very reliable link in the chain.
Frost- For me the best of the new bunch by a fair way, rated his game as outstanding!!!! very very cool, never panicked, nice disposal and a lot more agile than what i first thought.

Elliot and Sinclair, for me just ok to fair, they both go missing for large chunks and just cannot hit the scoreboard when the chance presents, maybe a bit harsh but its a pattern that i see.

Without Toovey we would be stuffed he has to be the first guy picked every week i would think.

 

[dingoboy]

I thought Tooooooov was garbage last year.

On Sunday I saw the old Toooooov back.

And I think you were harsh on Brown, he towelled Petrie for 3 qtr's..makes no difference if he gets a stat for it or not.

 

[JOELY]

Snoop you are a top poster but we both must've been watching different games to view Frost. He was quite ordinary.

He trailed his man often all game even before the commentary team picked up on it. He often bombed and panicked when he got hold of the football Maxwell style. A couple of his efforts showed no desperation especially his effort on Robbie Tarrant on the wing where Frost jogged back hoping someone would do his job and Tarrant continued to run hard and ended up receiving the ball and running into an open goal. Also the effort late in the game where Petrie took a strong contested mark virtually in the square, Frost was standing and watching when he needed to come 3rd up and help Brown. Petrie goaled and they were within 10 points.

That effort on Tarrant was also showed on slow replay and looked so bad I couldn't stop thinking about it. Tarrant just kept pushing on and Frost was in a slow jog on the wing watching his man stroll into an open goal coming from the same marking contest they both contested on centre wing.

I noticed this as well, but do you think it might have been a directive to somewhat concede possessions to certain players when they ventured too far outside 50?. Maybe I'm just looking for excuses for the kid, and there were definitely times where he was beaten on the lead, but as you say, sometimes it really looked like he'd conceded, and perhaps Bucks directed him to zone off when Tarrant got too far out because he just couldn't hurt us as much from that position.

 

[TheFreshBanana]

I noticed this as well, but do you think it might have been a directive to somewhat concede possessions to certain players when they ventured too far outside 50?. Maybe I'm just looking for excuses for the kid, and there were definitely times where he was beaten on the lead, but as you say, sometimes it really looked like he'd conceded, and perhaps Bucks directed him to zone off when Tarrant got too far out because he just couldn't hurt us as much from that position.

Yeah good point, the only marks Tarrant got was when he was 70-80m from goal, and it did look like Frost was hanging off a bit reluctantly to follow him.

He did have a few times where, me sitting on the 3rd level, could obviously see the panic and he just disposes of it without looking. But that's not surprising for a debutant, and his performance still warrants praise because overall he did well.