Rumour Players wants out of Essendon MEGATHREAD - all rumours relating to Dons in here

[brmi]

I'll put $1 million on the line in saying that not 1 regular senior player will be leaving at the end of the season. Come on, anyone else wanting to wager that much?

Of course you will see a couple fringe players leaving for more opportunities elsewhere. Just like every other club in the league.

Well if we're playing with Internet money I'll raise you one million.

Most Essendon supporters have been living in a fantasy land for the last year

 

[jenny61_99]

None will leave because of the saga. The few that will leave for more opportunities elsewhere (eg - not playing enough senior games), people will still suggest it was because of the drugs saga when deep down they know it wasn't. FACT. END OF.

Is that like "No points will be lost because of this saga" "James Hird won't be going anywhere" "No draft picks will be lost"? You have NO idea what is happening behind closed doors. If players go because of this, you cannot possibly blame them.

 

[Boston tiger]

tl;dnr

Come on dude, see sense. 12 players leaving a senior list? atleast be realistic. Did 12 players leave when Eagles were in their drug culture? Did 12 leave when Blues were smashed 11 season ago by the AFL?

As I said, a few may leave for retirement & more opportunity but 12? Wowee! Now that's just a ridiculous statement. Be realistic dude. The staff & even the players themselves have openly stated that they are in fact a very tight knit unit. From words and body language this season, I truely believe the players & staff are even more closer than last season.

So lets have a wager on this. You say up to 12 players will/may leave at seasons end, I say there wont be 12. How much do you want to lose in the bet?

And then you have the old usual, 3 to 4 changes to improve yourself every season. Every club does that. So it's nothing major. I'm pretty sure the only reason you've said 12 is just to bash a club with no fact or proof to back up your claims. But heck, if you have proof, I'd love to see it

Agree with all this. I think Essendons problem maybe is how to turn over the list. They will have to think carefully who they are going to throw on the scrap heap.
You know what I mean. You inject me with stuff that your not sure of and know I'm delisted etc.
Interesting times that may take awhile to blow over.

 

[Coldacre]

Is that like "No points will be lost because of this saga" "James Hird won't be going anywhere" "No draft picks will be lost"? .

is that the same as "Jobe will lose his Brownlow", "Players will receive infractions", "Club will be charged for doping"?

 

[jenny61_99]

is that the same as "Jobe will lose his Brownlow", "Players will receive infractions", "Club will be charged for doping"?

Club HAS been charged for doping - or alternatively not knowing what the hell they injected in their players. They are currently arguing the semantics of that and will accept the worst penalties handed down in AFL history for "not doping".

Players may yet receive infractions - keep any eye out November/December. Jobe may still lose his Brownlow if infractions are issued.

Let's just say we are an awful lot closer to the non-Essendon supporters line of how things were going to pan out.

 

[The Jet]

Well if we're playing with Internet money I'll raise you one million.

Most Essendon supporters have been living in a fantasy land for the last year

Ok, please enlighten us all on what AFL Anti-Doping rule have essendon broke over the last 1-2 seasons? Also please supply us with proof to back up your claims.

I am more than happy to give you a chance to put your side of the story to us. No doubt if you elect to do this, I will then counter-claim your 'claims'

 

[The Jet]

Club HAS been charged for doping - or alternatively not knowing what the hell they injected in their players. They are currently arguing the semantics of that and will accept the worst penalties handed down in AFL history for "not doping".

Players may yet receive infractions - keep any eye out November/December. Jobe may still lose his Brownlow if infractions are issued.

Let's just say we are an awful lot closer to the non-Essendon supporters line of how things were going to pan out.

Unsure if you are deliberately baiting Essendon fans or not.

The AFL integrity unit & the ACC & ASADA have openly stated no doping rules have been broken. No players have returned any positive tests, no infraction notices were handed out for now.

Essendon is being penalised for Governance issues and that only.

Should I keep going with facts? I have 34 pages of facts in front of me from over 400 witnesses

 

[jenny61_99]

Unsure if you are deliberately baiting Essendon fans or not.

The AFL integrity unit & the ACC & ASADA have openly stated no doping rules have been broken. No players have returned any positive tests, no infraction notices were handed out for now.

Essendon is being penalised for Governance issues and that only.

Should I keep going with facts? I have 34 pages of facts in front of me from over 400 witnesses

Please show me where both have said that. Not baiting you, just sick of the bullshit.

 

[The Jet]

Please show me where both have said that. Not baiting you, just sick of the bullshit.

When that Friday Night when AFL legal counsel Andrew Dillion handed down the charges in brief. He also stated that no AFL anti-doping rule has been broken. And no infraction notices have been given to the players at this point of time.

I believe that is all I need to say.

Your thoughts on ASADA & AFL withholding information re: AOD not prohibited since February/March yet allowing the club and jobe watson to be hung out to dry?

Also regarding the AFL deliberately allowing this saga to go all season just to maximise their money making potential and having little to no dead games in the season?

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Unsure if you are deliberately baiting Essendon fans or not.

The AFL integrity unit & the ACC & ASADA have openly stated no doping rules have been broken. No players have returned any positive tests, no infraction notices were handed out for now.

Essendon is being penalised for Governance issues and that only.

Should I keep going with facts? I have 34 pages of facts in front of me from over 400 witnesses

Really?

ASADA's investigation is ongoing, as for the ACC their full report has never been made public, though what has been announced is that when ASADA's new powers come into full effect, they will have access to a wider range of evidence that the ACC collected, as well as also being able to finally operate in the manner they need (compel interviews from industry figures etc.).

The club and players have not been cleared by any means.

 

[The Jet]

Really?

ASADA's investigation is ongoing, as for the ACC their full report has never been made public, though what has been announced is that when ASADA's new powers come into full effect, they will have access to a wider range of evidence that the ACC collected, as well as also being able to finally operate in the manner they need (compel interviews from industry figures etc.).

The club and players have not been cleared by any means.

I guess you missed out the part where I said for now ...

 

[jenny61_99]

Based on the ASADA interim report, the Afl charges that essendon:

engaged in practices that exposed players to significant risks to their health and safety as well as the risk of using substances that were prohibited by the AFL Anti- Doping Code and the World Anti-Doping Code;

ACC report:

An instance of team-based doping, orchestrated by some club officials and coaching staff, has also been identified.

The ACC also identified lax and fraudulent prescribing practices by some doctors with links to sporting clubs and anti-ageing clinics. These practices include writing scripts in false names, providing prescriptions without consulting the patient and prescribing hormones without conducting the necessary blood tests normally carried out prior to the prescription of these substances. Some of these doctors are also implicated
in experimenting on players, by providing them with different substances in order to determine the effects on their performance.

The ACC has identified specific high-performance staff, sports scientists and
coaches within some codes who have condoned and/or orchestrated the administration of prohibited substances, and substances not yet approved for human consumption,
to players.

In some cases, peptides and other substances were administered to players without them understanding the nature of the substances, and without the knowledge of the team doctor or club medical staff.

The apparent willingness of some high-performance coaches, trainers and sports scientists to administer WADA-prohibited and experimental drugs and their advocacy of ‘off-label’ substance use, raises concerns over the welfare of players who are being administered these substances and broader issues for sports administrators in Australia.

It was also identified that some high-performance coaching staff utilised medical staff from outside their respective clubs to administer substances to players. In some cases, the medical staff administering these substances were not communicating with the appointed team doctors nor advising team doctors of the treatments or substances being administered to players. No party appeared to be maintaining comprehensive medical records in relation to treatments being given to players.


Should I go on?

 

[IanW]

Ok, please enlighten us all on what AFL Anti-Doping rule have essendon broke over the last 1-2 seasons? Also please supply us with proof to back up your claims.

I am more than happy to give you a chance to put your side of the story to us. No doubt if you elect to do this, I will then counter-claim your 'claims'

AFL Anti-Doping Code

7.4 Before the commencement of the AFL Competition in each year each Player must
advise his Club Medical Officer in writing of all substances and medications he is
taking or using or has taken or used since the last Match in which the Player
participated in the previous year. The Player must promptly advise his Club Medical
Officer in writing of all substances and medications he subsequently takes or uses
during the AFL Competition in that year. Each Club Medical Officer must maintain
and keep a written record in respect of each Player of all substances and
medications so advised to him. Such records will be the property of the Club.

14.9
(a) Where the AFL General Manager - Football Operations determines that a Club
and/or any other person has committed a breach of:
clause 5.1(2);
clause 7.4;
clause 7.7;
clause 10.9;
clause 12.2;
clause 12.3;
clause 12.7; or
clause 12.8
of this Code, the Club and/or the other person concerned are subject to a
fine of 10 Penalty Units, provided that if the AFL General Manager -
Football Operations believes a greater sanction ought apply, he may refer
the matter to the Tribunal for its determination as to whether any greater
sanction ought be imposed.

Statement of charges

84. In April 2012, Dank arranged for Dr Malcolm Hooper (Hooper), a chiropractor, at HyperMed to administer injections of Cerebrolysin and amino acid mix to the players. Patient files maintained by HyperMed record 32 Cerebrolysin injections and 112 “amino acid” injections were administered to players.
85. Hooper states that the amino acids injected into 34 Essendon players by him were sourced from a patient (Patient A) who suffers from a form of muscular dystrophy.
86. Patient A was being treated by Hooper and Willcourt was the medical practitioner from whom Patient A obtained the necessary scripts for his treatment regime.
87. Patient A had pursued experimental supplement treatments in Italy and Mexico. Patient A’s treatment regime consisted of the subcutaneous injection of unspecified Amino Acids, Cerebrolysin, SARM-22 and AOD-9604.
88. Patient A used the services of Alavi’s Como Compounding Pharmacy to fill Willcourt’s scripts. In respect of his Amino Acid treatment, Patient ‘A’ personally bought two large (500ml) vials of Amino Acid over-the-counter at a local chemist in Mexico without a prescription.
89. Patient A states that he had loaned the Amino Acid to Hooper on the understanding that Doctor Hooper intended to show them to the Club.
90. Hooper states that 34 Essendon players were injected with an Amino Acid compound sourced by Patient A from a Chemist in Mexico. The identity and integrity of the commodity was inferred by Hooper from labelling without independent or professional verification. Additionally, the Amino Acid appears to have been in storage at HyperMED for a considerable time prior to its use.
91. Save for the above, Hooper does not know the content or source of the amino acids he injected into the players at HyperMed.
92. The Club:
(a) did not know and does not know the content or source of the amino acids Hooper injected into the players at HyperMed; and
(b) failed to reasonably satisfy itself that the substances Hooper injected into the players at HyperMed were not prohibited by the AFL Anti-Doping Code and the World Anti-Doping Code. Neither Cerebrolysin nor the amino acid mix was approved by Reid, in accordance with the Protocol, or otherwise.
93. The Club had neither conducted any adequate inquiries to determine, nor had any reasonable way of knowing, the content or origin of the amino acid mix.

Urk. How do the players record their drugs, which they are required to do under 7.4, without knowing what they were given ?

 

[DivideandMultiply]

I guess you missed out the part where I said for now ...

Given the above replies I will be brief.

They have not been cleared. In fact, there is no definitive statement that "no" doping rules have been broken.

All that has happened is that ASADA's interim decision was not to pursue players over alleged AOD use (for the moment). They are still investigating the use of other substances and the program as a whole.

The AFL's charge sheet claims that banned substances were used, but in the case of TB4, exactly which players took the drug is not yet clear.

 

[IanW]

They have not been cleared. In fact, there is no definitive statement that "no" doping rules have been broken.

All that has happened is that ASADA's interim decision was not to pursue players over alleged AOD use for the moment. They are still investigating the use of other substances and the program as a whole.

The AFL's charge sheet claims that banned substances were used, but in the case of TB4, exactly which players took the drug is not yet clear.

Nahh, it is actually. Its just been blacked out.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Nahh, it is actually. Its just been blacked out.

Which is?

Sorry, I am not sure which bit of information you were talking about.

 

[Donakebab]

Take this shit to the Hot Topic Board.

 

[jenny61_99]

Which is?

Sorry, I am not sure which bit of information you were talking about.

The players names along side the drugs taken. These would have been from player admissions in their interviews (rather than from excellent records keeping by essendon).

 

[jenny61_99]

Take this shit to the Hot Topic Board.

Isn't it a rumour board?

 

[DivideandMultiply]

The players names along side the drugs taken. These would have been from player admissions in their interviews (rather than from excellent records keeping by essendon).

Oh, dear.

 

[IanW]

Which is?

Sorry, I am not sure which bit of information you were talking about.

Annexure A, 28 is the place to start.

 

[The Passenger]

So a team would be mad not to offer Hurley a 4 year deal, even knowing he might miss the first year

For a guy like Hurley sitting out a year might not exactly be a bad thing as it might finally give him a chance to piece his body back together. Could end up adding 3+ years onto the end of his career.

 

[Despair]

Club HAS been charged for doping - or alternatively not knowing what the hell they injected in their players. They are currently arguing the semantics of that and will accept the worst penalties handed down in AFL history for "not doping".

Players may yet receive infractions - keep any eye out November/December. Jobe may still lose his Brownlow if infractions are issued.

Let's just say we are an awful lot closer to the non-Essendon supporters line of how things were going to pan out.

Thread is about Hurley leaving Essendon. Not about the nuances of the investigation (as much as you'd love for it to be).

 

[Coldacre]

Club HAS been charged for doping - or alternatively not knowing what the hell they injected in their players.

the sad thing is you can't (or refuse to) differentiate between the two.


but anyway, back to Hurley. I wonder who'll go first; him or Zaka?

 

[jenny61_99]

Right you are. Whatever happened to the big name signing on last Friday? Did that not go ahead?