News Port Adelaide have applied to join the VFL by 2025

[Bunk Moreland]

Sounds good - I would imagine the key to success of a Vic state league outside of the AFL would be embracing pockets of support in specific areas and perhaps even pushing further outside of Melbourne and into the regions.

The Under 18 clubs are set up like this with territories of their own. That’s really just rep footy for development purposes however.

The original plan in the 90s was to have a senior VFL club aligned to each. They tried to shoehorn it all together however and it didn’t really work.

Any attempts to have VFL clubs outside of Melbourne hasn’t worked. People just aren’t interested, major country leagues are quite strong and people have their clubs.

Metro and country football is very well supported in Vic - it’s just obviously highly fragmented as there’s so many clubs. Shoehorning a league in over the top that will be popular will be very very difficult and is destined for failure. It worked decades ago when the VFA had exclusivity over Sunday footy. But the AFL beast ate all that up.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Still nobody has expressed exactly what the issue is with Port reserves playing in the SANFL, and why they'll be so much better off in the VFL.

Actually they have, numerous times. I'll repeat it now: Port do not like having to pay the SANFL money to have a reserve team while operating under the restrictions the SANFL impose on them regarding mature age top-ups. It's the same situation with West Coast and the WAFL (though Port reserves are far more competitive).

From Port's perspective, if they're going to pay money to have their own reserves team anyway, they want an alternative competition that doesn't impose the same list restrictions. They can easily have that in a full AFL reserves comp.

Correct. It's not in the least bit tenable for the biggest footy state, Victoria, not to have a senior state league for development purposes.

Why not? What does a senior state league provide that metro and country footy leagues don't? It isn't money, so the only other thing I can think of is having a shop window for the best outside the AFL to present themselves to clubs in. But why can't each metro and country league serve as a shop window? Players have been recruited directly from them before.

Hence why if an "AFL Reserves" does eventuate, I'm not convinced Vic clubs would be part of it. I think they'd stay in the VFL.

I don't think Vic AFL clubs care either way. The competitiveness of their reserves probably means a lot more to them than whether a state league exists or not. In fact, getting rid of Coburg, Willy, Werribee and Southport from the reserves comp probably means they'd have less competition for the best players outside AFL lists to supplement their reserves as top-ups. So I see an advantage for Vic AFL clubs in ditching the VFL for a full reserves comp.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Why not? What does a senior state league provide that metro and country footy leagues don't? It isn't money, so the only other thing I can think of is having a shop window for the best outside the AFL to present themselves to clubs in. But why can't each metro and country league serve as a shop window? Players have been recruited directly from them before.

Well a shop window is just that - a shop window. A selection of the best to efficiently show what's inside. Using metro and country footy for that wouldn't be a shop window - it'd be 100 shop windows. There's 800-ish clubs in Vic... of course the top players aren't going to be spread across them all, but they are in the VAFA, EFNL, SFNL, NFNL, EDFL, WRFL, MPFNL, Geelong, Gippsland, Ballarat, Bendigo and O&M leagues, just off the top of my head. There's about 120 clubs that players will be spread across. It's not conducive to effective development and recruiting - standards vary and covering 60+ games of footy every week isn't something recruiters can do. You need the best against the best to see who the talents really are.

I don't think Vic AFL clubs care either way. The competitiveness of their reserves probably means a lot more to them than whether a state league exists or not. In fact, getting rid of Coburg, Willy, Werribee and Southport from the reserves comp probably means they'd have less competition for the best players outside AFL lists to supplement their reserves as top-ups. So I see an advantage for Vic AFL clubs in ditching the VFL for a full reserves comp.

They do care - they don't want national reserves and certainly didn't want the NEAFL clubs added. It just leads to expense and logistical issues for no benefit or real increase in playing standard. The VFL worked well for them, much better than a national comp would. They have flexibility with selection and top-ups that would be compromised by going national.

As I've said, if the "national reserves" does become a thing, I'd expect Vic clubs to resist being part of it. The VFL is the superior model for them. If the other 8 (soon to be 9) AFL clubs are that set on doing it, then they can. It won't make a huge difference for them if the Vic clubs are involved or not. They're travelling every second week either way.

 

[Altum Volantes]

As I've said, if the "national reserves" does become a thing, I'd expect Vic clubs to resist being part of it. The VFL is the superior model for them. If the other 8 (soon to be 9) AFL clubs are that set on doing it, then they can. It won't make a huge difference for them if the Vic clubs are involved or not. They're travelling every second week either way.

I think the AFL - from a consistency of branding and a ‘all in’ approach would be strongly encouraging the Vic sides to participate in a genuine 2nd tier league. Most likely with money. That tends to work.

I think we’ll see this come to fruition over the next 5-10 years and will be a good test for how truly professional and ‘national’ the AFL want to control the game.

 

[JimmyBC]

Actually they have, numerous times. I'll repeat it now: Port do not like having to pay the SANFL money to have a reserve team while operating under the restrictions the SANFL impose on them regarding mature age top-ups. It's the same situation with West Coast and the WAFL (though Port reserves are far more competitive).

From Port's perspective, if they're going to pay money to have their own reserves team anyway, they want an alternative competition that doesn't impose the same list restrictions. They can easily have that in a full AFL reserves comp.


Why not? What does a senior state league provide that metro and country footy leagues don't? It isn't money, so the only other thing I can think of is having a shop window for the best outside the AFL to present themselves to clubs in. But why can't each metro and country league serve as a shop window? Players have been recruited directly from them before.


I don't think Vic AFL clubs care either way. The competitiveness of their reserves probably means a lot more to them than whether a state league exists or not. In fact, getting rid of Coburg, Willy, Werribee and Southport from the reserves comp probably means they'd have less competition for the best players outside AFL lists to supplement their reserves as top-ups. So I see an advantage for Vic AFL clubs in ditching the VFL for a full reserves comp.

We don't pay the SANFL shit we are a founding club in that competition.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I think the AFL - from a consistency of branding and a ‘all in’ approach would be strongly encouraging the Vic sides to participate in a genuine 2nd tier league. Most likely with money. That tends to work.

I think we’ll see this come to fruition over the next 5-10 years and will be a good test for how truly professional and ‘national’ the AFL want to control the game.

It's going to cost a lot anyway, I don't think additional money is going to be handed out.

If branding is an issue then they'd just have two "AFL2 Conferences" or whatever. VFL and National.

I still think the best result is state leagues and making changes to the whole footy structure nationally just because Port and the SANFL can't get on isn't realistic.

I would like to see all reserves teams playing in their state leagues. Take the money that would be spent on this silly reserves thing and plough it into the QAFL and AFL Sydney for mine. Improved coaching, resources and some incentives (in the short to medium term) for state league footballers from southern states to go and play up there and improve the standard. It will lift things where it's actually needed, in the northern state leagues, and benefit the game overall. We don't need to instead spend it on what is essentially a SANFL-PAFC playground tantrum. Sort it out yourselves.

 

[parano1a]

I think the AFL - from a consistency of branding and a ‘all in’ approach would be strongly encouraging the Vic sides to participate in a genuine 2nd tier league. Most likely with money. That tends to work.

Why would a Collingwood supporter be more inclined to watch an "AFL Reserves" match against Port Adelaide than a current VFL match against the Northern Bullants? I don't how see how it is going to attract any more fans/viewers than the current model.

 

[BallaratBulldog]

West Coast will do the same

 

[Farang83150]

Aren't they're AFL team already heavily subsidised by the afl?

 

[Soggy2112]

Why not? What does a senior state league provide that metro and country footy leagues don't? It isn't money, so the only other thing I can think of is having a shop window for the best outside the AFL to present themselves to clubs in. But why can't each metro and country league serve as a shop window? Players have been recruited directly from them before.

I don’t know about Vic but there’s like 20 of them in SA so presumably more over there. Theres definitely merit for the AFL pathway in having one league for each state where mature age players or late bloomers can develop I think.

Yes, players have been recruited from country footy, doesn’t mean that the VFL wouldn’t be a better pathway.

 

[JimmyBC]

Aren't they're AFL team already heavily subsidised by the afl?

This old chestnut someone put the AFL dividend table up.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I don’t know about Vic but there’s like 20 of them in SA so presumably more over there. Theres definitely merit for the AFL pathway in having one league for each state where mature age players or late bloomers can develop I think.

Yes, players have been recruited from country footy, doesn’t mean that the VFL wouldn’t be a better pathway.

There are 48 senior leagues in Vic below the VFL, and around 800 clubs.

In terms of the upper tier leagues that VFL players would most probably align with, there's six in the metro area and probably another 5/6 major country leagues.

 

[Farang83150]

This old chestnut someone put the AFL dividend table up.

So they're not?

 

[JimmyBC]

So they're not?

Certainly not in the top handful, the AFL bankrolls the queensland & sydney clubs reserves costs in the VFL it's a nothing argument.

 

[Rickee]

Southport wear black and white in the VFL

There are two Tigers team in the VFL

Will Collingwood really mind that Port Adelaide enter as Port Adelaide Magpies with black and white prison bar stripes in a competition that is not focused on winning?

I take issue with that statement as any member or supporter of a stand alone VFA club would.

You might not care about the VFL beyond the stats of your second stringers, but it means something to us.

 

[Rickee]

Honestly, what happens to a small handful of clubs that nobody supports is not going to be a deal breaker - nor does their existence in the VFL as it currently is play a major role in the health of Victorian footy.

Port Melbourne is about to celebrate a 150 year anniversary. Williamstown is even older, and the rest of the stand alone clubs have histories dating back a century of more. Our membership numbers and crowd figures might not be great, but people do support these clubs, and are just as passionate about them as any Collingwood, Essendon or Geelong supporter.

These club are also an important part of the history of football in our state, and just because the AFL stubbornly refuses to acknowledge the VFA does not make it magically disappear.

Regardless of any of that, these clubs hold licences to compete in the VFL and AFL Vic can't just take those away without cause or reason. I don't know if the stand alone clubs could make a viable competition without AFL support, but if the WAFL & SANFL are planning to continue if/when the AFL Reserve come it, it would be unwise not to have a state league pathway between the NAB League and the AFL

 

[JimmyBC]

Port Melbourne is about to celebrate a 150 year anniversary. Williamstown is even older, and the rest of the stand alone clubs have histories dating back a century of more. Our membership numbers and crowd figures might not be great, but people do support these clubs, and are just as passionate about them as any Collingwood, Essendon or Geelong supporter.

These club are also an important part of the history of football in our state, and just because the AFL stubbornly refuses to acknowledge the VFA does not make it magically disappear.

Regardless of any of that, these clubs hold licences to compete in the VFL and AFL Vic can't just take those away without cause or reason. I don't know if the stand alone clubs could make a viable competition without AFL support, but if the WAFL & SANFL are planning to continue if/when the AFL Reserve come it, it would be unwise not to have a state league pathway between the NAB League and the AFL

Once again a true AFL reserves comp would allow for a restructuring of a proper victorian state league the rung below.

This is essentially what the SANFL & WAFL will be the moment the AFL clubs vacate.

 

[parano1a]

How about a 2 conference structure to reduce travel costs with more local games. Some of the stronger WAFL/SANFL clubs can rotate through the National Conference in a relegation/promotion system with their state leagues. It also gives an opportunity for expansion clubs (Tas/Canberra/NT) to participate in the 2nd tier league prior to potential AFL entry.

Victorian Conference (16 teams)
Carlton
Collingwood
Essendon
Geelong
Hawthorn/Box Hill
Melbourne/Casey
North Melbourne
Richmond
St Kilda/Sandringham
Western Bulldogs
Port Melbourne
Williamstown
Werribee
Coburg
Frankston
Northern Bullants

National Conference (16 teams)
Sydney
GWS Giants
Brisbane Lions
Gold Coast Suns
Southport
Tasmania Devils
Adelaide Crows
Port Adelaide Magpies
Norwood Redlegs
Glenelg Tigers
West Coast Eagles
Fremantle/Peel Thunder
Subiaco Lions
East Perth
Northern Territory
Canberra

 

[AussieNick1999]

Port Melbourne is about to celebrate a 150 year anniversary. Williamstown is even older, and the rest of the stand alone clubs have histories dating back a century of more. Our membership numbers and crowd figures might not be great, but people do support these clubs, and are just as passionate about them as any Collingwood, Essendon or Geelong supporter.

These club are also an important part of the history of football in our state, and just because the AFL stubbornly refuses to acknowledge the VFA does not make it magically disappear.

Regardless of any of that, these clubs hold licences to compete in the VFL and AFL Vic can't just take those away without cause or reason. I don't know if the stand alone clubs could make a viable competition without AFL support, but if the WAFL & SANFL are planning to continue if/when the AFL Reserve come it, it would be unwise not to have a state league pathway between the NAB League and the AFL

You have summed it up better than I ever could. As a Frankston supporter, it irritates me when AFL fans with no real skin in the game talk so casually about our clubs folding or being pushed out. These clubs matter to people and have histories as long and rich as most AFL clubs. I've seen comments on this very forum assuming that Frankston is financially weak and uncompetitive (our remaining debt was wiped out in 2022 and we had five or six losses by a few goals that, if flipped, turn a 4-14 record into a 9-9 or 10-8 record.)

There is still value in having a tier between the AFL and local football + Talent League. Players who go undrafted need somewhere to go and contribute their development, and these clubs - even the less successful clubs like Frankston, the Bullants, and Preston - are capable of providing that. Nic Newman is an example of a player who made his way to the AFL through this pathway and has now established himself onto a team that has a genuine chance of winning a premiership in the next few years. My only hope is that even if an AFL Reserves competition is established, the AFL recognises the important place our clubs have in the football landscape.

 

[AussieNick1999]

How about a 2 conference structure to reduce travel costs with more local games. Some of the stronger WAFL/SANFL clubs can rotate through the National Conference in a relegation/promotion system with their state leagues. It also gives an opportunity for expansion clubs (Tas/Canberra/NT) to participate in the 2nd tier league prior to potential AFL entry.

Victorian Conference (16 teams)
Carlton
Collingwood
Essendon
Geelong
Hawthorn/Box Hill
Melbourne/Casey
North Melbourne
Richmond
St Kilda/Sandringham
Western Bulldogs
Port Melbourne
Williamstown
Werribee
Coburg
Frankston
Northern Bullants

National Conference (16 teams)
Sydney
GWS Giants
Brisbane Lions
Gold Coast Suns
Southport
Tasmania Devils
Adelaide Crows
Port Adelaide Magpies
Norwood Redlegs
Glenelg Tigers
West Coast Eagles
Fremantle/Peel Thunder
Subiaco Lions
East Perth
Northern Territory
Canberra

I'm very tempted to support this system from a Victorian perspective, but the NSW and Qld would have to do a fair bit of travelling across the country. But given they're AFL clubs (+ Southport which is quite strong for a standalone), this might not be as much of a burden.

I do think some form of division within the VFL is necessary for as long as it stays at 20+ teams. Maybe a promotion/relegation system with two divisions (and their own premierships) so that the struggling clubs can play against teams closer to their own skill level. I think it would help the standalone clubs that struggle for supporters and players to develope some confidence to build upon.

 

[JimmyBC]

What about 50 teams? King Island your time has arrived!

 

[LoungeLizard]

What about 50 teams? King Island your time has arrived!

Are you saying no to Port joining the VFL then?

 

[JimmyBC]

Are you saying no to Port joining the VFL then?

I'd rather a proper AFL reserves comp & state leagues being exactly what they should be STATE LEAGUES.

 

[LoungeLizard]

I'd rather a proper AFL reserves comp & state leagues being exactly what they should be STATE LEAGUES.

I'd like to see another state do something instead of relying on Victoria all the time.

Then we see supporters of these states that never do anything for themselves have a good ole whinge about how hard done by they are.
I see there is already a few in here that couldn't give a rats about what happens to some of the oldest footy clubs in the country.

 

[Hamingja]

VFL is now a terrible competition with all the byes. If you get to play week in week out in the SANFL I wouldn't move if I was them.