Autopsy Port beat Dogs 70-56

[weltschmerz]

Looks like Bruce will be out for a few weeks now. Apparently suffered significant injuries to his ribs in that collision and is returning to Melbourne.

The travelling emergencies outside of yesterday's 22 are Khamis and McNeil. I wonder if we're flying Gardner or Keath in, or playing a Jones, O'Brien, Buku backline.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Looks like Bruce will be out for a few weeks now. Apparently suffered significant injuries to his ribs in that collision and is returning to Melbourne.

They'll have to fly someone else over to Perth - wonder who it will be? Gardner? Keath? Or both?

 

[goodcop badcop]

Power presumably nutted out the details of the trade. But it's possible he did the best he could. I'm presuming he did the best he could with Dunkley - I just don't know. We held a very weak hand there.

But SOMEONE decided that Lobb was worth whatever price we would pay for him, and specifically thought he was worth THAT price. That might have been Power, but it might not have been.

Lobb was our number 1 target according to Chris Grant, at least that's what he said during the intra match we had. I don't understand it, but we seemed ultra committed to Lobb.

Ultimately the decision should rest on Power's head, but the club doesn't seem to work like that. Dalrymple was overruled by Bevo. It certainly appeared that Jason McCartney was overruled also and Chris Grant took over the Jake Stringer and Josh Schache trades. Although I can't be 100% sure of that one.

 

[Struggle]

Bruce has a ‘significant’ rib injury so seems like he’ll be out for a while. Keath will obviously return though.

Has Keath been given the all clear? We've been very conservative with concussions recently.

 

[dergert]

Amiss & Jackson are freos key forwards. I think I heard that tabener is injured?

I think there will be some selection melts on Thursday

 

[Lindsay_Gilbee]

Can’t believe some people are calling out JJ. He was good yesterday? Is it just the easy thing to say now?

 

[_Mike_]

Some stats were posted earlier that showed that Dixon at worst broke even with English, which was really disappointing for someone of Tim’s ability

The issue I see is that Bevo runs English in the ruck until he’s gassed, which was why he was benched in the last. Bad move IMO,

English and Lobb need to be used more effectively in order to ensure English can run out the game. English still lacks the endurance as I see it and needs more rotations as a resting forward or on the backline as opposed to being benched

 

[Outback Footy]

Yep, put multiple straight to or guys that slipped through their hands. Then the mids let all their opponents get goal side together. Not sure how that's on Lobb

The obvious flipside is that their blokes were goalside because ours were too, our goals. Lobb won the tap and our blokes were away, then the first mid fluffed it and we were instantly back pedalling.

 

[hutchy31]

Bullshit they have us covered across the list were you saying that last year? Or just now that their coach has gotten some cohesion and team football out of the group.

View attachment 1661965
You think these 22s overall are better than ours? Absolutely bullshit.

It’s coaching and system and we’re a ******* mile behind

Agree. We might not have the best list in the comp (which is obviously subjective anyway) but there’s more than enough talent on the list to be better than this.

On paper Collingwood’s list isn’t up to much. Who are their A graders? Moore, Daicos, De Goey, aging Pendles and Sidebottom, anyone else? But they’re one of the best sides in the comp right now.

The problem we have isn’t that the list is bereft of talent, it’s that we have enough top line talent to ensure we’ll always win 10 games or more (barring a bad injury run) so there’s no perceived need to shake things up. But with our current game plan, approach to team selection and list decisions in relation to mature age/VFL level players we’re miles off it. Melbourne and the saints showed us that, I suspect Sydney, Colllingwood, Geelong etc will do the same later in the year.

 

[Substance]

It was the most obvious question to ask Bev at the presser why they were off and yet none of the dumb***** asked it.

I believe I brought this up in 2020, the lack of adversarial nature the journos have towards the coaches in this league with regards to game day tactics. They will be adversarial and question other stuff, like ask about a MRO incident, or players being inaccurate, but never something that actually puts pressure on the coach for being a shit coach. They will never get that specific.

 

[Mr. Walker]

Can’t believe some people are calling out JJ. He was good yesterday? Is it just the easy thing to say now?

I haven’t criticised JJ this game but I was disappointed in his game. I think he is symptomatic of the problem with our club. My issue with him is that all that we get from him now is a “serviceable” game. Given the number of games he has played he is a senior player, a Norm Smith Medalist and premiership player. Does he ever lead from the front or change the course of a game or drag other players with him? He does enough to get a game each week as do many team mates but does not die for the cause. I know he is not alone. I guess I just want Dale Morris or Matt Boyd out there again.

 

[ScragCity]

Agree. We might not have the best list in the comp (which is obviously subjective anyway) but there’s more than enough talent on the list to be better than this.

On paper Collingwood’s list isn’t up to much. Who are their A graders? Moore, Daicos, De Goey, aging Pendles and Sidebottom, anyone else? But they’re one of the best sides in the comp right now.

The problem we have isn’t that the list is bereft of talent, it’s that we have enough top line talent to ensure we’ll always win 10 games or more (barring a bad injury run) so there’s no perceived need to shake things up. But with our current game plan, approach to team selection and list decisions in relation to mature age/VFL level players we’re miles off it. Melbourne and the saints showed us that, I suspect Sydney, Colllingwood, Geelong etc will do the same later in the year.

Those few "A graders" have an excellent supporting cast. McCreery, Hill, Elliot, Maynard, the other Daicos, Crisp, Adams, Howe, Hoskin-Elliot, Mihocek, Johnson. They might not have more "elite" players than us, but they sure have a lot more "good" players.

 

[D Mitchell]

I haven’t criticised JJ this game but I was disappointed in his game. I think he is symptomatic of the problem with our club. My issue with him is that all that we get from him now is a “serviceable” game. Given the number of games he has played he is a senior player, a Norm Smith Medalist and premiership player. Does he ever lead from the front or change the course of a game or drag other players with him? He does enough to get a game each week as do many team mates but does not die for the cause. I know he is not alone. I guess I just want Dale Morris or Matt Boyd out there again.

Johannisen is Murphy minus. Pre the Sicily injury, Murph set up win after win with his run off half back, pace, accuracy and smarts. He was tagged out of it in that 2015 elim final, forget about Tex Walker, that's why we lost. Johanissen isn't in Murph's class but close. He was really good against R'Mond. Dale at half back isn't Murphy but getting there. Richards isn't as adventurous. I missed Cleary's game, sounds promising.

 

[doggies ftw]

Those few "A graders" have an excellent supporting cast. McCreery, Hill, Elliot, Maynard, the other Daicos, Crisp, Adams, Howe, Hoskin-Elliot, Mihocek, Johnson. They might not have more "elite" players than us, but they sure have a lot more "good" players.

That’s the point though, the guys on that list who were there pre-Mccrae were part of the issues at the time (besides maybe Maynard/Mihocek). Stagnating middle aged types who weren’t performing or getting results.

Now they’re considered good players because they’re in a good team/system. The fact you’ve listed Hoskin-Elliot says it all really, he’s one of the most maligned 200 game players in the game, has always been trashed for being a genuinely rubbish footballer. Put him in a good system and he’s a ‘good support cast’ type

We have plenty in that range but in the current team their output is just rubbish

 

[yebach]

Omfg how ridiculous was the extremely high defensive press last night, in the pouring down ******* rain. I’ve made my thoughts clear on what I think of it and how it’s leaving us exposed but fair enough in the dry the idea is that we cut off the long kick and lock the ball in our front half - it’s outdated football but hey at least it has merit - but when it’s ******* torrential rain and no one can take a mark, and your up against a side that wipes us for leg speed in the front half of the ground - yep let’s push our last line of defence right up so when it inevitably spills out the back or our defenders can’t mop up cleanly due to the conditions, one handball goal side and it’s all over.

******* brain dead coaching, some of these decisions are incomprehensible at this point.

He has no other game plan.

 

[Next Waiting]

Hannan last week, Naughton this week. Is there a new anti-Bulldogs rule about getting legged in the goal square with no free given? (Pinched from W***)

View attachment 1661932

I could not work out how that wasn't a free to Naughton. There weren't too many obscuring the view(s) of the umpires.

....

Bont and English being off the ground for the length of time and at the game stage they were was unfortunate, however, we were well beaten for pace around clearances and middle generally for the entirety of the game. It's not a new problem but a significant one that has yet to be resolved. For all Libba and Macraes' skill and endeavour, they get torched by faster players on the spread.

Macrae is looking particularly problematic. His vision and decision making is excellent but he and we are getting burned by his lack of pace when the ball is up for grabs in the open or on the spread defensively. But, we need his decision making.

The challenge, it seems to me, is to be able to effectively swap and transition he and Smith under different scenarios without using interchange. Smith needs to up his defensive capabilities in more open/exposed situations (CBs etc) as he has the pace to get there to make a defensive impact but seemingly not yet the physicality and possibly intent. Macrae simply has no hope of getting there to make an impact.

Smith obviously not a factor in this game, but if we are to make September and then, having made it, make an impression, we need him to succeed as he's one of the few with pace we have who could make a difference. Worth the investment and patience to have a chance.

 

[ScragCity]

That’s the point though, the guys on that list who were there pre-Mccrae were part of the issues at the time (besides maybe Maynard/Mihocek). Stagnating middle aged types who weren’t performing or getting results.

Now they’re considered good players because they’re in a good team/system. The fact you’ve listed Hoskin-Elliot says it all really, he’s one of the most maligned 200 game players in the game, has always been trashed for being a genuinely rubbish footballer. Put him in a good system and he’s a ‘good support cast’ type

We have plenty in that range but in the current team their output is just rubbish

Hoskin-Elliot has always been a fine player. He's "maligned" because he was taken at pick 4 in the draft and never became the elite player you expect at that pick. He's still better than half of our current 22.

 

[doggies ftw]

Hoskin-Elliot has always been a fine player. He's "maligned" because he was taken at pick 4 in the draft and never became the elite player you expect at that pick. He's still better than half of our current 22.

He averages 13 touches and under a goal a game, had one fantastic year where he kicked 42 5 years ago and apart from that has kicked over 20 goals one more time a decade ago. Go read any Collingwood thread from 2021 when they finished 17th and see what their supporters thought of him. He’s certainly not better than half of our team.

But even not taking into account WHE, the point still stands - this is mostly a supporting cast who were there in 2021, the team and system is everything when judging these role players and whether you think their list is better or not there’s definitely not a gulf in quality that you’d expect from one team playing top 4 footy and one playing bottom 4 footy

 

[Mofra]

* NO MORE PERSONAL POSTS *

Discussions deleted. Keep it civil and non-personal

 

[ScragCity]

He averages 13 touches and under a goal a game, had one fantastic year where he kicked 42 5 years ago and apart from that has kicked over 20 goals one more time a decade ago. Go read any Collingwood thread from 2021 when they finished 17th and see what their supporters thought of him. He’s certainly not better than half of our team.

But even not taking into account WHE, the point still stands - this is mostly a supporting cast who were there in 2021, the team and system is everything when judging these role players and whether you think their list is better or not there’s definitely not a gulf in quality that you’d expect from one team playing top 4 footy and one playing bottom 4 footy

I'm not discounting the importance of having a good system, being well-coached etc.
I agree with you that being part of a cohesive team will make the individuals perform better and that the inverse is also true. But I do think Collingwood genuinely have a better list than we do. 2021 was the outlier for them. They were still a better side than us from 2016-2020 under Buckley.

 

[ossie_21]

We have a tired coach, with tired ideas, that results in a tired game plan. Can rarely fault the players efforts, but I genuinely think that the players don’t have the belief in any of it when they see other clubs performing so well without so much grit required in every game

 

[Old Puppy]

Lobb was our number 1 target according to Chris Grant, at least that's what he said during the intra match we had. I don't understand it, but we seemed ultra committed to Lobb.

Ultimately the decision should rest on Power's head, but the club doesn't seem to work like that. Dalrymple was overruled by Bevo. It certainly appeared that Jason McCartney was overruled also and Chris Grant took over the Jake Stringer and Josh Schache trades. Although I can't be 100% sure of that one.

True

 

[doggies ftw]

I'm not discounting the importance of having a good system, being well-coached etc.
I agree with you that being part of a cohesive team will make the individuals perform better and that the converse is also true. But I do think Collingwood genuinely have a better list than we do. 2021 was the outlier for them. They were still a better side than us from 2016-2020 under Buckley.

I agree their list is better now but I think we’ve had remarkably similar highs and lows over that period.

I don’t think you could say they were better - between ‘16-21 we made 4 finals series, won 1 flag lost 1 GF and didn’t win a final in the other two years, and finished bottom 8 twice.

They made one GF, zero flags, finished bottom 8 3 times including 2nd last once, outside of their GF year made 2 final series for just 2 wins.

Similar yet we had higher highs and they had lower lows. Now the core of their side is still very very similar yet we’re worlds apart on field when they haven’t really added a huge amount of quality on field outside of Daicos and have actually lost more A graders too.

The whole difference has been the turn around off field which is helping them get more output out of the same core on field. There’s no reason we couldn’t be in a similar position and our support cast is very capable but the whole side is being seriously failed right now, is what I’m getting at anyway. There just shouldn’t be the difference in ability that is showing right now but here we are going backwards with every month that goes past

 

[_Mike_]

Can’t believe some people are calling out JJ. He was good yesterday? Is it just the easy thing to say now?

Agree, he was one of the few that were consistent through the whole game

 

[Dogs Rule]

More convinced than ever we need a new coach at the end of this year and a clean sweep of the assistants. All gone.

Take half a dozen players as well, load up at the draft and hopefully we actually hit 2024 with a bit of enthusiasm about a new, fast and exciting game plan rather than the exhausting dirge style we have this year.