Autopsy Post game v Bulldogs, Rd 17. Magpies down again (sad face)

[welshm69]

There doesn't appear to much accountability out on the field. So many of our guys look like "uh who cares" if something goes haywire (we don't get angry and emotion from players is dead). Bucks needs to get a little more emotion, his press conference he didn't seemed concerned at all. I think he'll take us somewhere but these past few weeks we seemed to have dropped across the board, even aside from the fact we've played top 8 sides.

 

[Finnishpie]

Witts and Grundy were fine, I reckon. I would have subbed one of them, but I know why Bucks subbed Oxley. All those dropped marks were painful to watch.

 

[Axl the great]

Probably not. But look at today 12 points down with 10 mins to go and Port 3 points down for the last 5 minutes. If we step up, we win both.

Problem is we don't hold momentum like other sides do, we keep giving a sniff during quarters, you can almost guarantee we either start slow or get pegged back late in quarters.
The trick is and a learning curve will be for us to not be in the position of trying to fight back from deficits in most games we play.

 

[DaicosianMarvels]

Kennedy and White lol

White has been lucky but that luck should run out once Cloke comes back and as for Kennedy, the man is a lost cause when he plays at AFL level. If we can gets something for him, I wouldn't mind trading him back to SA.

Kennedy was so bad for us today that I would have preferred Seedsman.

 

[PieBeast]

Bucks summed it up pretty well in the presser. He said that once again when the game was there to be won we didn't take the opportunity.

Did Bucks address the fact that opportunity only presented itself due to Dogs' poor goal kicking?
Did he explain the rationale behind playing 2 rucks against the side that's done us with pace in 2 previous encounters?
Did he justify us sticking to zone defense for the whole game when it clearly wasn't working?

 

[76woodenspooners]

My Thoughts:

• Finals are almost Impossible to make now

Gather around ye all for a cup of hot cocoa and a sweet bedtime story ...

Round 18: Adams comes back. We play Melbourne, the team who got whipped by St Kilda this weekend by 6 goals. We could win that one?

Round 19: Cloke is aiming to be back this round (already totally pain free and walking). We might even have Reid available (scrambling for wood). We play Carlton. They're the team who got beaten by 437 goals this weekend by a team we recently had an 'honourable loss' to. Could win that one too?

Round 20: We play Swans who got thrashed by West Coast this weekend. We handled West Coast much better than them. I think the wheels are starting to fall off the Swans. Yes, we play Swans away at the SCG, but who knows, if we find our mojo after the Melbourne and Carlton games, we might just win this one?

Round 21: We play Richmond. OK, now it starts getting difficult. We do match up against them reasonably well and we could have beaten them earlier in the season. If we've bagged three wins on the trot by this stage, and have found our confidence, maybe we're in with a chance?

Round 22: We play Geelong. Ditto.

Round 23: We play Essendon. Our biggest risk this game is that events in Switzerland mean Essendon can't field a team; and the AFL rules we share the points Failing that, we make up whatever percentage we need on any teams above us.

... The Result? 14 wins, 8 losses, ~ 130%

 

[Pendles!]

Problem is we don't hold momentum like other sides do, we keep giving a sniff during quarters, you can almost guarantee we either start slow or get pegged back late in quarters.
The trick is and a learning curve will be for us to not be in the position of trying to fight back from deficits in most games we play.

Yeah, I agree with that. Nothing shits me more than giving up two or three goals within 2-3 minutes which has happened so many times this year.

But, still feel the game was there to be won and we didn't grab it by the scruff of the neck.

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

Really disappointed with this loss. Apparently we don't like playing in July. Pretty sure this is the second year in a row that we have gone through the month without a win. Good news is we have no more games in July so hopefully that will help.

Positives
- We were able to stay in the game despite being outplayed particularly in the first half
- Darcy Moore - 9 possessions, 100% efficiency, 4 Marks (3 contested), 5 goals
- Jordan De Goey - 18 Possessions including 11 contested, 78% efficiency, 5 tackles, 3 clearances, 6 Inside 50s
- Brayden Maynard - 16 disposals including 7 contested, 75% efficiency, 2 Inside 50s, 4 Rebound 50s
- Brodie Grundy - 20 disposals including 8 contested, 80% efficiency, 6 marks, 3 tackles, 2 goals, 17 Hit Outs
- Frost, Brown, Williams, Toovey & Langdon - All played well, and were a big part of the reason we stayed in the contest. Brown and Williams would have to be in consideration for All Australian wouldn't they? Or does the fact they wear a Collingwood jumper make them ineligible?

Negatives
- We got jumped again. This is the 3rd match in a row where we have been slow starters in the match and it has killed us each time
- Another honourable losses
- We can't win in July
- Jesse White - this match was set up for him to dominate with Cloke missing and the Bulldogs missing tall defenders and he didn't
- Despite knowing the strength of Bulldogs defensive rebound we couldn't shut it down.
- Oxley & Kennedy - didn't think either played particularly well today both had low disposal efficiency and little impact.
- Umpires - I don't like blaming the umpires, and they weren't the reason we lost, but I thought they did have an influence which you don't want. What has happened to the holding the ball rule. Has that been thrown out because apparently the umpires don't want to pay it.

I honestly can't see the love for Brown. He is a self centred backman who does little to help those around him. All he cares about is shutting down his man, and doesn't assist with the team defence ethos that Frost, Toovey, Williams and Langdon do. He is a horrible decision maker and is really only a Presti type clone, which would be fine if Ben Reid was our other key defender, but Jack Frost is the other key defender, meaning the guy who has played 100 games has to do more than just punch and turn over the football when he gets it.
I understand that both he and Goldsack are apparently good talkers/leaders on the field, but from what I saw at the game today, Brown needs to be far more selfless.

 

[Pendles!]

Did Bucks address the fact that opportunity only presented itself due to Dogs' poor goal kicking?
Did he explain the rationale behind playing 2 rucks against the side that's done us with pace in 2 previous encounters?
Did he justify us sticking to zone defense for the whole game when it clearly wasn't working?

It was pretty clear the change was made to go man on man. The game was not lost by playing two rucks.

Please stop quoting me in future, I don't want to be notified to your rubbish.

 

[Axl the great]

There doesn't appear to much accountability out on the field. So many of our guys look like "uh who cares" if something goes haywire (we don't get angry and emotion from players is dead). Bucks needs to get a little more emotion, his press conference he didn't seemed concerned at all. I think he'll take us somewhere but these past few weeks we seemed to have dropped across the board, even aside from the fact we've played top 8 sides.

Yep agree here, Bucks throws statements around like "really young side" "we need to be better" "session by session" referring to improvement,
Pivotal moments and contests get a mention as well.

While positivity and the backing of the group is important publicly, It can create a sense of false security, despite what is said behind closed doors, publicly these are excuses at the end of the day and some individuals in any organisation when backed to the hilt will take the piss for as long as they can.

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

A disappointing result in a game we were didn't deserve to win. Many have underestimated the Bulldogs but they've got similar characteristics to the Hawks with Beveridge in charge now but they're still not great users compared to the Hawks obviously but their development and progress since Beveridge came to the club has been astonishing.

In regards to ourselves a lot didn't go right today. Our forward line didn't function well at all and it took a young 19 year old in Darcy Moore to score our goals. I actually understand the anger towards Jesse White from frustrated supporters as he cannot take a mark to save his life and he has the ability to miss set shots at crucial stages of the game but statistically speaking he's having a good season for his standards and structurally he's been important up forward especially in Reid's absence in the last two seasons and plus I never expected him to be a great player despite the expectations that people had of him when he first arrived at the club. Fasolo will be lucky to remain in the senior side next week if today's performance is anything to go by. He just doesn't deliver when we need him most.

Brown and Frost are solid defenders and always do a good job on their direct opponents but their overall ball use in attacking spots is still poor however. Most notably, Brown had a chance to find a player on the lead in the forward line to get us within 10 points in the final quarter but instead he bombed it long in hope and turned it over in the process. I like Tooves but is he really a part of our next premiership side or is he just warming the seat for the next young guy whether that's Marsh or Scharenberg?

I think the criticism of Ben Kennedy is warranted today. He just looked really poor with the ball and played dumb football overall. I know he's been a solid player at VFL level but Bucks' reluctance to play him at senior level was well-demonstrated today. I'll give him a chance to redeem himself but I'm concerned that Hine hasn't picked the right player here when evaluating the 2012 draft.

Darcy Moore was the obvious highlight for mine! This kid with more experience, confidence and muscle will be an absolute gem for us in years to come. I think Buckley should just play him for the rest of the year for his development regardless of how he performs from week to week and the same goes for De Goey who continues to impress me with his calmness and good-decision making! He doesn't look out of place at this level.

The recurring theme of the day is our constant turnovers! They just kill us time and time again and the opportunity was there for the taking in the final quarter but we blew it with poor kicking but this has been a constant issue for a few years, and today was no exception. Sadly, we just don't have a good kicking team overall. We have good tacklers and guys who have a red-hot crack but the kicking skills are not up to scratch in the team overall barring a few players such as Pendles and Varcoe.

I'm not going to rule out finals for this year but we'll make up the numbers regardless of whether we make it or not. Five straight losses doesn't help our cause but four of those were against sides who are 6th or above on the ladder so a little perspective is needed so we can analyse where we're at exactly.

 

[joff]

Fasolo did some excellent work today. His hands in close set up a number of teammates and he is contesting hard.

Sorry m8 disagree the fas was pretty avg today thought he wouldve really grabbed his opportunity

 

[domus]

Yep agree here, Bucks throws statements around like "really young side" "we need to be better" "session by session" referring to improvement,
Pivotal moments and contests get a mention as well.

While positivity and the backing of the group is important publicly, It can create a sense of false security, despite what is said behind closed doors, publicly these are excuses at the end of the day and some individuals in any organisation when backed to the hilt will take the piss for as long as they can.

If any Pie fan cannot see what is building before their very eyes they should start following the Storm and see if they can understand that game. We have flaws, but this year has been a big step forward. A phony bake post match from Bucks, just to keep supporters happy would be ridiculous. I am sure he knows our weaknesses and is working on them.

 

[bullish23]

We (the dogs) have been involved in some poor quality games the last few weeks. Mainly due to opposition coaches playing a real lock down style and us being too immature to work thru it at this stage of our development.

Today we saw too young sides playing positive football, reflecting the philosophies of their respective coaches. Obviously i am wrapped the dogs got up today, but you found a gem in Darcey Moore who reminded me a lot like a CHF at the saints. We are going to have some really good games in the next few years played in positive spirit. Cheers.

 

[Robroy22]

Gather around ye all for a cup of hot cocoa and a sweet bedtime story ...

Round 18: Adams comes back. We play Melbourne, the team who got whipped by St Kilda this weekend by 6 goals. We could win that one?

Round 19: Cloke is aiming to be back this round (already totally pain free and walking). We might even have Reid available (scrambling for wood). We play Carlton. They're the team who got beaten by 437 goals this weekend by a team we recently had an 'honourable loss' to. Could win that one too?

Round 20: We play Swans who got thrashed by West Coast this weekend. We handled West Coast much better than them. I think the wheels are starting to fall off the Swans. Yes, we play Swans away at the SCG, but with who knows, if we find our mojo after the Melbourne and Carlton games, we might just win this one?

Round 21: We play Richmond. OK, now it starts getting difficult. We do match up against them reasonably well and we could have beaten them earlier in the season. If we've bagged three wins on the trot by this stage, and have found our confidence, maybe we're in with a chance?

Round 22: We play Geelong. Ditto.

Round 23: We play Essendon. Our biggest risk this game is that events in Switzerland mean Essendon can't field a team; and the AFL rules we share the points Failing that, we make up whatever percentage we need on any teams above us.

... The Result? 14 wins, 8 losses, ~ 130%

That's a great story....can't wait for you to read the sequel uncle 76, the one that's called " How Darcy Moore won the 2015 Norm Smith medal"

 

[PieBeast]

It was pretty clear the change was made to go man on man. The game was not lost by playing two rucks.

Please stop quoting me in future, I don't want to be notified to your rubbish.

No worries, enjoy the sight of your own rectal walls.

 

[joff]

Pissed off with the loss. Still need to be patient though.
Loved: Moore, pendles, swan, Grundy, Langdon (although I think he still makes too many mistakes) de geoy, witts, Marley, varcoe....
Hated: OXLEY (4 dropped easy marks) I know he is young but that's inexcusable.
Sidey for a senior player he does too many brainless acts. In my opinion trade him for someone who can be more damaging as Sidney is not damaging at all. Can get it but usage of the ball is pathetic.
Fasolo: played behind all day.
Frost: persist with but crap game today. Needs to add ball use to his arsenal.
Decision making: absolutely awful all day.
Forward play: how many times are opposition forwards left unattended in our forward 50, compared to how many times our forwards are left unattended. This is a coaching issue. Needs addressing ASAP.

Bit of venting from me. Bulldogs were 1st to the ball, wanted it more as most sides do when they play Collingwood. We should be beating the Bulldogs 9 times out of 10. We didn't as we were not prepared to do the hard things and make better decisions. Brown bombing into 50 instead of a hand balling to a runner. Fasolo not handball to and open man in the 4th. Pendles bombing long rather than going short. Sideys Crap dinky kicks. Frost kick directly to opposition. Crisps many mistakes. I hope these get rectifed over the off season. We will be better next year. It's a slow build, how ever still hate losing. GO PIES!

Classic post especially the comments re sidey and frost unbelievable

 

[Maggie5]

Sidebottom was back to his best today, never stopped trying, love this guy.
That's all.

 

[Pie eyed]

Probably lost in the roar, but how did Greenwood go?

 

[Kirby]

Probably lost in the roar, but how did Greenwood go?

Pretty quiet I thought. Looks like he's struggling to make up for lost ground.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Point taken.
Mark McGough.

I'm not trying to be anything but realistic about potential at this stage of a very early career.

Grundy he ain't.

Im being realistic too.

Moore is a star.

 

[Bont2Bruce]

You guys have a great F/S in Darcy Moore.

If only Ayce Cordy (who we used a first rounder to grab as F/S) had produced in his entire career what Darcy did today.

 

[MoreMoore]

Probably lost in the roar, but how did Greenwood go?

Started ok then faded

 

[Starcevich90]

how quickly you guys forget we should have beat freo at subi, should have beaten hawks.. Like actually should/could have beaten them ( after two others top 4 sides got annihilated by them ). Could of beaten port at port, and probably could have beaten west coast but played like dogs.. Stop calling for across the board changes / saying buckley can't coach. Short term memory issues. 4th youngest list in the comp.. get a grip.

A lot of could haves and should haves in there

 

[Jonno94]

You guys have a great F/S in Darcy Moore.

If only Ayce Cordy (who we used a first rounder to grab as F/S) had produced in his entire career what Darcy did today.

You win some and you don't win some. The Dogs drafting these past few years has been phenomenal.