Power unveils clash guernsey

[mcgarnacle]

But is that an AFL directive or a club policy with the AFL leaning on them. Most fans don't want to see their team play in a clash guernsey.

the away guernsey or the 'clash' guernsey? a club can wear any uniform it wants as long as its approved by the AFL. this is standard in any 'pro' sport around the world.

Everybody who wears a white guernsey wears all white. So using a teal back is a point of differentiation straight away. It's not going to clash with anybody and it's not going to harm anybody.

I'll be curious to see how it comes up on TV as some kid designed an all teal guernsey for a home game this year and I thought it came up well when the players back was to the TV. Let's face it, this is a TV driven thing the AFL is pushing on clash guernseys and as we know TV supplies the money so the AFL bends to them.

Port should not wear this guernsey against another team wearing white. I say 'should not' as opposed to 'will not' because there was a ridiculous situation a season or two ago where the AFL allowed either the Roos or Freo to wear their white strip against Geelong's white with navy-blue hooped guernsey. Your argument seems to infer that Port may wear this guernsey against other predominantly white uniforms with the teal back being the distinguishing feature. if this is the case, then apply to the AFL for a job in their operations dept, because you'll be a shoe-in with the rest of them.

and whether its on a hanger at the store, live at the ground, or on the tele, its going to look naff.

The AFL should stick out of club colours and guernseys. They should worry about fixing up the holding the ball - holding the man - push in the back rule rather than telling clubs what they can and can't wear. They should try and fix that up first.

The one thing that is constant at a club is the colours. The coaches, players , management etc all come and go. For the fans, one thing they know is a constant are the colours. The club and the fans should have ultimate control over them not the AFL.

The silliest thing the clubs ever did was hand over power of logos and guernsey design to the AFL. Sure handing over power to run the game to an independent body was a necessary move to advance the game. But the logos and design of the clubs has nothing to do with running and advancing the game in a better way. It is just a control mechanism in case the clubs were to go to another league (see RL super league teams), but the AFL have abused their power by telling the clubs what they can and can't design.

its the AFL's product on show each and every week during the season, and so they have the ultimate interest in what is presented by clubs. and as far as im aware, the AFL arent directing clubs to change their colours, or their logos. the the AFL owns the collective rights to merchandising. the clubs are able to do what they see fit with their uniforms. but when it comes to the actual design of the uniform, the AFL arent doing enough. that's my point. they need to implement stricter rules on uniforms and enforce them so the many ridiculous self-serving designs are terminated.

Arsenal, Fullham, Liverpool, Manchester United, Middlesborough, Stoke City and Sutherland are all 2008/09 EPL clubs who have red and white in their uniform, some have additional colour(s). Most of these clubs wear red or red and white on their guernsey but have worn an away white strip in their history. But now days with merchadising being a big part of their business, they come up with all sorts of colours to be able to sell them as special one off strips.

But like most things the NFL do a great job and set the pace. The AFL copies them time and again, but not always as successfully.

but not many soccer clubs wear all-white alternate uniforms which is what you were inferring. despite the colours those clubs have worn in certain away games over many years, liverpool are still world-renowned as the 'reds', and man utd are still world-renowned as the 'red' devils. it hasnt ****ed up their identity at all. but all this doesnt matter in the context of this argument. for all the bleating about away uniforms being a soccer or American concept, FIFA and the NFL have stricter rules regulating the game's match-day uniforms. Furthermore, in the NFL, the team names, logos and uniform designs are registered trademarks of the teams. Teams design their own uniforms in accordance to the rules in place. NFL penalties for rule violations for teams and individuals are harsh, but these are imposed to advance and protect the image, presentation, and professionalism of the game. And the owners of the teams respect this as they realise collective proactivity enhances the individual benefits to everyone. in contrast, what we have in the AFL is a culture of constant bickering, self-serving and self-preservation from clubs and officials, an attitude which ******s the advancement of the game as a whole.

 

[johnwehbe]

 

[El_Scorcho]

Agree completely with your last post mcgarnagle. People whinge about us "trying to be too american or european" because of the clash strips, but whatever you want to say about Americans, they know how to produce sport for an audience.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Agree completely with your last post mcgarnagle. People whinge about us "trying to be too american or european" because of the clash strips, but whatever you want to say about Americans, they know how to produce sport for an audience.

They know how to produce sport for an American audience. How popular is NFL down here?

 

[El_Scorcho]

American audiences aren't that much different from ours. At all.

We both want to see our sports presented in the best and most professional way. The Americans are the best at it, because they have the most money behind them. The way they present the game both live and on TV is terrific for fans, without overtaking the game itself.

The more fans they get watching the game, the more money they make. So everything they do they do for the fans.

Copying the way America produces it's sport for an audience could only be a good thing IMO, and we already copy a lot of things they have introduced.

 

[BIG FAT BOB]

The AFL should stick out of club colours and guernseys. They should worry about fixing up the holding the ball - holding the man - push in the back rule rather than telling clubs what they can and can't wear. They should try and fix that up first.

The one thing that is constant at a club is the colours. The coaches, players , management etc all come and go. For the fans, one thing they know is a constant are the colours. The club and the fans should have ultimate control over them not the AFL.

The silliest thing the clubs ever did was hand over power of logos and guernsey design to the AFL. Sure handing over power to run the game to an independent body was a necessary move to advance the game. But the logos and design of the clubs has nothing to do with running and advancing the game in a better way. It is just a control mechanism in case the clubs were to go to another league (see RL super league teams), but the AFL have abused their power by telling the clubs what they can and can't design.

I am assuming then that if Collingwood and Port Adelaide played a game and both sides wore white and black stripes that you'd have no issue then.

 

[PowerForGood]

I am assuming then that if Collingwood and Port Adelaide played a game and both sides wore white and black stripes that you'd have no issue then.

No, you've misunderstood.

Don't handover power of guernsey's to the AFL.
Hand them over to Collingwood.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I am assuming then that if Collingwood and Port Adelaide played a game and both sides wore white and black stripes that you'd have no issue then.

Port don't were black and white stripes in the AFL so it's irrelevant!!

But lets dream a little and if the drongos at the AFL ever let Port wear our black and white stripes, then yes it becomes an issue. As I said in post # 75 there are only about 5 genuine guernsey clashes of the 120 possible combinations under the current AFL approved home guernseys. I have no problems with the AFL making a ruling on these type of clashes, but they are belligerent, inconsistent and aren't impartial when dealing with this issue and favour the strong clubs whilst bullying the financially weaker ones and falsely turning an unnecessary jumper change into an issue of major proportion.

And if the above scenario ever happened then both collingwood and port would have to come up with an acceptable clash jumper, not only one team as the AFL lets happen at the moment.

Think about it, under the current regime if Collingwood played Carlton in an AFL GF they would try and force Carlton to wear that all white abomination. Yet nobody had problems distinguishing things in the 1970 GF which was on black and white TV, or the heavy wet weather and muddy MCG of the 1979 GF, and the wetish and muddy-ish MCG of the 1981 GF.

 

[Geoffa32]

I'd like to hear the opinions of North Melbourne and Collingwood players who played on mudbowls at Arden Street and Vic Park how easy identification was.

I've said it before, I'll say it again.

Yes, when you hold any two guernseys up 5 metres away from your face in a well lit room you can clearly tell the difference - as Sam Newman once condescendingly did with Collingwood and Port Adelaide guernseys on TFS.

Duh. But it's not about that.

It's about quick, clear and easy identification for the punters in Row ZZ at the MCG or AAMI.

For the player on the bottom of a pack trying to dish out a handball through a sea of arms and legs.

For the TV audiences at home when the camera follows the ball in flight on anything less than a super HD telecast with a housewidth plasmascreen.

For 100 years I doubt anyone complained about "clashes". The AFL have just dreamt of a way to sell moure merchandise.

Not many of the Victorian clubs wear a clash jumper when they come over here. Yet our clubs do when we go over there. If there was a clash surely Collingwood/Essendon/Richmond would have to have a clash jumper when they play here?? In particular Port V Collingwood at Footy Park which I would have to agree there is a slight problem. But still quite distinguishable at the game and on TV. I seriously doubt anyone actually gets confused.

Our grounds have less mud than they did in the old days so that problem has been somewhat eliminated. But the problem was solved with white shorts.

Sorry but anyone who sees a clash problem is a lemming following Vlad's spiel. Or needs to listen to 5RPH.

I am not totally against alternate strips. The white strips of Freo/Bulldogs/Carlton and now Port (apart from back) arent too bad. But lets call them Home and Away jumpers like they do in the US sports. Not clashes as there are no real clashes in the AFL. Chelsea and Everton is a clash. Liverpool and ManU is a clash. Jeventus V Newcastle is a clash. Same design and colour. AFL ahve differing desigins and colours.

 

[aneale]

I wonder what "1870" means?

The number of your fans sitting in the outer i'd imagine

I don't mind the jumper altho' I'd have made the lighting bolt on the front a little stronger looking, it will (like Freo, WB and St K) look good out on the ground and it's better than the insipid North Melbourne Lite jumper, but it's ridiculous they have to wear it to placate a club who's produced one fluke in 50 years and loses money hand over fist it would seem.

It's also better than that red monstosity we wear, and that stupid looking yellow crow one. We should go predominatly all white as well, in fact everyone including Collingwood should.

 

[aneale]

I am not totally against alternate strips. The white strips of Freo/Bulldogs/Carlton and now Port (apart from back) arent too bad. But lets call them Home and Away jumpers like they do in the US sports. Not clashes as there are no real clashes in the AFL. Chelsea and Everton is a clash. Liverpool and ManU is a clash. Jeventus V Newcastle is a clash. Same design and colour. AFL ahve differing desigins and colours.

I half agree, there is no need at all to wear away jumpers, that's just marketing. Adelaide as an example (and everyone else really) have great 'home' jumpers, it's all that is needed. Then each club can have one predominantly light coloured jumper to avoid 'clashes' (which is mostly a TV issue nothing more) which the away team should wear if needed. No team needs 3 jumpers. Barring the slight changes that the manufacturers make each year, i'd hate to be a parent of a Port supporting child wanting each new Port jumper how many is that now since 97?

As for the manufacturers what is going on with the Adidas jumpers this year, i'm surprised the AFL don't jump up and down given their attitude to everything else.

 

[Geoffa32]

I half agree, there is no need at all to wear away jumpers, that's just marketing. Adelaide as an example (and everyone else really) have great 'home' jumpers, it's all that is needed. Then each club can have one predominantly light coloured jumper to avoid 'clashes' (which is mostly a TV issue nothing more) which the away team should wear if needed. No team needs 3 jumpers. Barring the slight changes that the manufacturers make each year, i'd hate to be a parent of a Port supporting child wanting each new Port jumper how many is that now since 97?

As for the manufacturers what is going on with the Adidas jumpers this year, i'm surprised the AFL don't jump up and down given their attitude to everything else.

Collingwood are sponsored by Adidas too . As are Essendon, the other club that the AFL seem to "favour" but go under the rader.

 

[tribey]

Sorry but anyone who sees a clash problem is a lemming following Vlad's spiel. Or needs to listen to 5RPH.

That's awfully myopic, ironically.

 

[Geoffa32]

That's awfully myopic, ironically.

haha

Its all marketing driven. I guess some of us are not as gullible. I have never been to a game of footy, nor watched on TV and not been able to tell the difference in the two teams playing. If others can honestly say the have struggled, get those eyes checked.

The argument is that it is for TV is a fallacy. Back in the black and white days I would agree. It would of actually been harder in the days of the Rank Arena, yet no-one really complained. A HD picture makes it easier.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

the away guernsey or the 'clash' guernsey? a club can wear any uniform it wants as long as its approved by the AFL. this is standard in any 'pro' sport around the world.

Apart from the Skase's marketing boys between 1987 and 1991 for the Brisbane Bears, there was no such thing as an away guernsey until the AFL started wetting its pants about things in the early to mid 1990's. So both Freo and Port, as the new clubs were instructed by the AFL to start off with an away guernsey for the colour clashes. Unfortunately they agreed to it and thought it would be an easy revenue raiser. Then the AFL starts upping the ante with all other clubs.

But if you go thru the guernsey of the different clubs, you will see away strips were produced by West Coast and Footscray in 1995, North Melbourne in 1996, St Kilda in 1997, Hawthorn in 1997 Geelong in 1998 and Collingwood a very mild change in 1998. See

http://www.footyjumpers.com/

Port should not wear this guernsey against another team wearing white. I say 'should not' as opposed to 'will not' because there was a ridiculous situation a season or two ago where the AFL allowed either the Roos or Freo to wear their white strip against Geelong's white with navy-blue hooped guernsey. Your argument seems to infer that Port may wear this guernsey against other predominantly white uniforms with the teal back being the distinguishing feature. if this is the case, then apply to the AFL for a job in their operations dept, because you'll be a shoe-in with the rest of them.

No, my argument is that Port will be dumb enough to follow the AFL edicts and wear this white with the teal back guernsey in 11 away games. It's BS! It should be worn once or twice a year when real substantive clashes occur.

Port play Geelong at Footy Park, both teams wear their home guernsey. No one has a problem. Port play Geelong at Kardina, but Port wear their clash guernsey. Why? Port want to, or are they instructed to by the AFL? Port play Geelong in a GF at the MCG and Port tell the AFL to get stuffed about wearing the clash guernsey. The AFL get all in a flap and then say ok, Geelong must wear white shorts and Port wear black shorts. Were the 97,800 people at the ground confused? Were the millions on TV? Were you? We play a shit game of footy so maybe there wasn't any problems for the average punter to see who was dominating, but that's another story.

I repeat what I said before, no team wants to wear their away and/or clash guernsey in a GF. They don't give a stuff about any clashes on the biggest day of the year! Why?

and whether its on a hanger at the store, live at the ground, or on the tele, its going to look naff.

Good, it further proves my point that the AFL having a hand in accepting away and/or clash guernseys is something they should not get involved with because they make dumb choices.

its the AFL's product on show each and every week during the season, and so they have the ultimate interest in what is presented by clubs. and as far as im aware, the AFL arent directing clubs to change their colours, or their logos.

True, but if the clubs want to alter them, then why should the AFL have any input? If the logo was to be a copy of another clubs then fair enough that they stop it especially if the other club appeals, or there is something that breaks the law of the land say over racial, religious vilification etc, but otherwise they should butt out.

the the AFL owns the collective rights to merchandising. the clubs are able to do what they see fit with their uniforms. but when it comes to the actual design of the uniform, the AFL arent doing enough. that's my point. they need to implement stricter rules on uniforms and enforce them so the many ridiculous self-serving designs are terminated.

No, my club can't do what it wants to do with its home guernsey. We have been told we can't have a certain design we want.

And that's were we differ. I believe in a more laissez fair approach on this issue rather than the AFL wanting to control everything to the nth degree.

but not many soccer clubs wear all-white alternate uniforms which is what you were inferring. despite the colours those clubs have worn in certain away games over many years, liverpool are still world-renowned as the 'reds', and man utd are still world-renowned as the 'red' devils. it hasnt ****ed up their identity at all. but all this doesnt matter in the context of this argument.

Sure, but they only wear a clash strip when things actually clash, they don't wear an away strip if there is no clash, eg Man U wears red when it plays Newcastle at St James' Park in Newcastle. In the AFL, for many clubs, now an away game = away guernsey = clash guernsey when there is no clash.

for all the bleating about away uniforms being a soccer or American concept, FIFA and the NFL have stricter rules regulating the game's match-day uniforms. Furthermore, in the NFL, the team names, logos and uniform designs are registered trademarks of the teams.

So unlike the AFL, the NFL private money making corporations control their intellectual property. Good on them. I like the fact that NFL teams jerseys have no advertising logos on them. But its a totally different sports market, in particular $$$ involved, so I have no problem accepting the different need in the AFL.

Teams design their own uniforms in accordance to the rules in place. NFL penalties for rule violations for teams and individuals are harsh, but these are imposed to advance and protect the image, presentation, and professionalism of the game.

The words in bold, are they your words of the NFL's?

And the owners of the teams respect this as they realise collective proactivity enhances the individual benefits to everyone. in contrast, what we have in the AFL is a culture of constant bickering, self-serving and self-preservation from clubs and officials, an attitude which ******s the advancement of the game as a whole.

The NFL team owners are there to make money. Either annual profits and or capital profits when they sell out. The AFL clubs are non profit organisations.

The advancement of AFL will happen at a quicker pace if they fix up things like holding the ball - holding the man - push in the back rule so it's fans know what the hell is going on and we have consistent interpretations, rather than worrying about clash guernseys and trying to make outlandish claims that it is holding the game back.

The game has consistently gone ahead in leaps and bounds in spite of the stupid and/or short term decisions made by foolish administrators over the last 25 years in particular. If you, want I can list most of them and when you read them all together you wonder how the game has survived all these foolish moves.

 

[aneale]

haha

Its all marketing driven. I guess some of us are not as gullible. I have never been to a game of footy, nor watched on TV and not been able to tell the difference in the two teams playing. If others can honestly say the have struggled, get those eyes checked.

The argument is that it is for TV is a fallacy. Back in the black and white days I would agree. It would of actually been harder in the days of the Rank Arena, yet no-one really complained. A HD picture makes it easier.

I remember going to a North/Collingwood game at Arden St one day, but they all ended up mud coloured anyway for the most part. The only other times were the 2000 GF with Melbourne and Essendon when the game was hot early and that year PA wore their white and pale blue jumper in a Showdown, and that clashed with the stupid umpires in their dopey 1800's uniform, I reckon it was Wakelin who handballed it to one of them!

 

[krisholio14]

I think the glossy material they've been using for the guerseys for the last 15 years is the culprit.

When watching on TV, teams that should not clash, like Port and Freo (before they started wearing light 'clash' jerseys), would clash big time. I put it down to the fabric.

 

[Jakko]

The number of your fans sitting in the outer i'd imagine

This must be the new official cow sanctioned deflection to...

1870.



I think they should consider taking the number 1990, and subtracting 1870 and using the number 120 (years in this case) as a potential crowd size insult also.

 

[BIG FAT BOB]

Think about it, under the current regime if Collingwood played Carlton in an AFL GF they would try and force Carlton to wear that all white abomination. Yet nobody had problems distinguishing things in the 1970 GF which was on black and white TV, or the heavy wet weather and muddy MCG of the 1979 GF, and the wetish and muddy-ish MCG of the 1981 GF.

I doubt it. I think Carlton would wear all navy blue, and Collingwood would be forced (for once) to wear its predominantly white top (the one it wore for decades anyway) with black numbers. That would be the most logical solution.

Its all marketing driven. I guess some of us are not as gullible. I have never been to a game of footy, nor watched on TV and not been able to tell the difference in the two teams playing. If others can honestly say the have struggled, get those eyes checked.

Strongly disagree. Did you watch the Freo v Melb final at Subi two or three years ago? Farsical

Melb v Ess
Port v Carl
Rich v WC
Melb v Freo
Ess v Stk
Coll v Geel

...to name a few are all unacceptable for professional sport in my view

 

[abs_of_STEELE]

I like it.

 

[krisholio14]

Just a question here.

Who designed it?

Rip Curl? Billabong? Vans?

 

[Speck]

Think about it, under the current regime if Collingwood played Carlton in an AFL GF they would try and force Carlton to wear that all white abomination. Yet nobody had problems distinguishing things in the 1970 GF which was on black and white TV, or the heavy wet weather and muddy MCG of the 1979 GF, and the wetish and muddy-ish MCG of the 1981 GF.

Remember Collingwood wore black on white instead of white on black then. There would have been no problems with that.

 

[mcgarnacle]

Apart from the Skase's marketing boys between 1987 and 1991 for the Brisbane Bears, there was no such thing as an away guernsey until the AFL started wetting its pants about things in the early to mid 1990's. So both Freo and Port, as the new clubs were instructed by the AFL to start off with an away guernsey for the colour clashes. Unfortunately they agreed to it and thought it would be an easy revenue raiser. Then the AFL starts upping the ante with all other clubs.

But if you go thru the guernsey of the different clubs, you will see away strips were produced by West Coast and Footscray in 1995, North Melbourne in 1996, St Kilda in 1997, Hawthorn in 1997 Geelong in 1998 and Collingwood a very mild change in 1998. See

http://www.footyjumpers.com/



No, my argument is that Port will be dumb enough to follow the AFL edicts and wear this white with the teal back guernsey in 11 away games. It's BS! It should be worn once or twice a year when real substantive clashes occur.

Port play Geelong at Footy Park, both teams wear their home guernsey. No one has a problem. Port play Geelong at Kardina, but Port wear their clash guernsey. Why? Port want to, or are they instructed to by the AFL? Port play Geelong in a GF at the MCG and Port tell the AFL to get stuffed about wearing the clash guernsey. The AFL get all in a flap and then say ok, Geelong must wear white shorts and Port wear black shorts. Were the 97,800 people at the ground confused? Were the millions on TV? Were you? We play a shit game of footy so maybe there wasn't any problems for the average punter to see who was dominating, but that's another story.

I repeat what I said before, no team wants to wear their away and/or clash guernsey in a GF. They don't give a stuff about any clashes on the biggest day of the year! Why?



Good, it further proves my point that the AFL having a hand in accepting away and/or clash guernseys is something they should not get involved with because they make dumb choices.



True, but if the clubs want to alter them, then why should the AFL have any input? If the logo was to be a copy of another clubs then fair enough that they stop it especially if the other club appeals, or there is something that breaks the law of the land say over racial, religious vilification etc, but otherwise they should butt out.



No, my club can't do what it wants to do with its home guernsey. We have been told we can't have a certain design we want.

And that's were we differ. I believe in a more laissez fair approach on this issue rather than the AFL wanting to control everything to the nth degree.




Sure, but they only wear a clash strip when things actually clash, they don't wear an away strip if there is no clash, eg Man U wears red when it plays Newcastle at St James' Park in Newcastle. In the AFL, for many clubs, now an away game = away guernsey = clash guernsey when there is no clash.



So unlike the AFL, the NFL private money making corporations control their intellectual property. Good on them. I like the fact that NFL teams jerseys have no advertising logos on them. But its a totally different sports market, in particular $$$ involved, so I have no problem accepting the different need in the AFL.




The words in bold, are they your words of the NFL's?



The NFL team owners are there to make money. Either annual profits and or capital profits when they sell out. The AFL clubs are non profit organisations.

The advancement of AFL will happen at a quicker pace if they fix up things like holding the ball - holding the man - push in the back rule so it's fans know what the hell is going on and we have consistent interpretations, rather than worrying about clash guernseys and trying to make outlandish claims that it is holding the game back.

The game has consistently gone ahead in leaps and bounds in spite of the stupid and/or short term decisions made by foolish administrators over the last 25 years in particular. If you, want I can list most of them and when you read them all together you wonder how the game has survived all these foolish moves.

im not going to respond to all of that as we'll just be going around in circles. most of your arguments and examples arent responding to my comments. when they do, you ignore my earlier comments or its just plain wrong. To think that AFL clubs arent interested or dont require money compels me to ask what level of football you've been watching. And my argument of the most important reasons for regulating the issue of match-day uniforms is avoided - by you and all the others who look at this situation from their club's perspective rather than the competition as a whole. Yes, the only thing we agree on is that the AFL handle the the issue of match-day uniforms incorrectly. Our solutions differ. You would prefer no regulations which will allow clubs to continue their self-serving approach. I advocate regulation where each and every club is treated equally, and us this as a tool so the league can collectively enhance and protect the presentation, the image and the professionalism of the game.

 

[T919]

those are lightning bolts?

 

[portly]

im not going to respond to all of that as we'll just be going around in circles. most of your arguments and examples arent responding to my comments. when they do, you ignore my earlier comments or its just plain wrong. To think that AFL clubs arent interested or dont require money compels me to ask what level of football you've been watching. And my argument of the most important reasons for regulating the issue of match-day uniforms is avoided - by you and all the others who look at this situation from their club's perspective rather than the competition as a whole. Yes, the only thing we agree on is that the AFL handle the the issue of match-day uniforms incorrectly. Our solutions differ. You would prefer no regulations which will allow clubs to continue their self-serving approach. I advocate regulation where each and every club is treated equally, and us this as a tool so the league can collectively enhance and protect the presentation, the image and the professionalism of the game.

I thought REH did quite well in answering your specific points.

Anyway, don't you both arrive at the same result via a different route, namely that all teams are treated equally instead of the present abomination.