Training Pre season training

[seasonedsainter]

At this point, would it be most productive if we made a list of players who aren’t elite yet? That way, we could find a way to help them join their newly minted stars before Christmas!

 

[phantom13]

Wilkie is such a good stopper I'd rather leave him on the best forward. Realistically a 18 yo key position player isn't even likely to get a game in his first year let alone take over from Wilkie. That's why I'm suggesting playing an established player until then.

Dougal seems to get CHB or outside the square because he's not a great one on one player. He's better out in space where his closing speed and spoiling are used.

Barratt is far more developed physically than most normal draftee KPPs. Hence my comment.

I dont like Sharman down back. Cammaniti makes more sense if were shifting someone (and someone is about as "established" as he is).

If it works Howard, Barratt, Wilkie as the tall back 3 swapping Camma for Barrat if needed.

King, Sharman and Roma (resting) up forward for me.

 

[seasonedsainter]

By the time the pre-season games roll around, someone will have Patrick Said winning the Coleman

James Barrett to replace SOS full back of the century before end of ‘25

 

[gringo2011]

Our centre bounce set up should ALWAYS have one of those two in there, every bounce (unless were trying some weird small ball shit) because as you say, they are the only two first choices.

I actually think we have a decent balance now with two genuine first touch ball pigs, some emerging inside mid talent then a plethora of good movers and users.

We lack a star (or stars) but were well balanced.

Phillipou has the Bont factor that we lack. If he comes on I think he should have the more intangible stuff that we lack.

That said I think what we do have that is better than most is outside run. Perhaps we don't need as much X factor inside because we will be able to attack through a running wave. Even rebound off HB like peak Richmond or Geelong.

 

[On the Outer Wing]

His tank is my concern. A small fwd should not be in same running group as Moose and Cordy.

This is how he tested in 2023; "Creative forward Lance Collard confirmed his blistering pace with a 2.92 second 20m sprint and combine-topping 8.16 seconds in the agility test, and his 6:32 minute 2km won admirers on Friday." Looks like his tank wasn't a problem then - has he gone backwards since then?

 

[CaptainRisky]

I reckon Hall will surprise a few similar to how Byrnes did am I right CaptainRisky

Now now , you're trying to bait me

With the talent that has come into the club over the last few years including this one , Ryan will find himself very much under the pump, Those who think he is the second coming of Christ are going to be disappointed IMO
I shall reserve my judgement on Hall but he would wanted to improve 20 lengths on this years form

 

[gringo2011]

That’s seven mate, gonna need you to trim up a bit ty

The Gringo don't follow rules, The Gringo makes new rules that only apply to himself and then goes back to find stiffs that ridicule these new rules and wipes his arse on their napkins. Especially upstart Western Australian ones.

 

[gringo2011]

Barratt is far more developed physically than most normal draftee KPPs. Hence my comment.

I dont like Sharman down back. Cammaniti makes more sense if were shifting someone (and someone is about as "established" as he is).

If it works Howard, Barratt, Wilkie as the tall back 3 swapping Camma for Barrat if needed.

King, Sharman and Roma (resting) up forward for me.

A beard at 13 does't make you able to play 22 games I your first year though.

 

[gringo2011]

Yep agree totally. The problem last year was that one or the other were injured or in the case of King not really able to push up the ground that much.

King likes the push and shove but he's not great at it that's why I'd prefer him playing higher for parts of the game with Caminiti out of the square.

The way to solve the problem is to turn Owens into a mid then the 3rd tall role can be shared between Owens, Sharman and Phillipou.

At least King looks bigger now. Perhaps he's finally at a point that he'll be able to bully some backs.

 

[gringo2011]

Hall was regarded as the best mid in the VFL when we recruited him mid season. He was injured early, possibly due to the increase in loads from VFL to AFL. When he did play towards the end of the season he showed positive signs but he was limited by the fact he was still coming to grips with the game style. He has come back from the long break very fit and with a better understanding of the game plan and he is now displaying the skills which obviouslly appealed to our recruiters.

You can’t compare him with Allison who was completely raw but athletic and had little or no exposed form. Despite being on the list and in the development program for 4 years he hardly improved at all.

That's probably a bit of a stretch. There are some gun mids in the VFL. I think he was probably a decent target because he seems to have a rounded game and can play high HF as well. Dom Brew is probably the best mid in the VFL or maybe Dawson.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Hall was regarded as the best mid in the VFL when we recruited him mid season. He was injured early, possibly due to the increase in loads from VFL to AFL. When he did play towards the end of the season he showed positive signs but he was limited by the fact he was still coming to grips with the game style. He has come back from the long break very fit and with a better understanding of the game plan and he is now displaying the skills which obviouslly appealed to our recruiters.

You can’t compare him with Allison who was completely raw but athletic and had little or no exposed form. Despite being on the list and in the development program for 4 years he hardly improved at all.

I wasn't comparing him to Allison , I was saying some posters were hyping up Allison last pre season like they are Hall this year and some blokes are just Guns at VFL level but cant take the next step to AFL , we have all seen that a million times

 

[phantom13]

A beard at 13 does't make you able to play 22 games I your first year though.

Sassy today aren’t you

 

[thekizzler]

At least King looks bigger now. Perhaps he's finally at a point that he'll be able to bully some backs.

What I really want to see from King is some desperation to do the one percenters and be the leader of the forward line.

This includes but is not limited to:

• Bringing the ball down to ground in the contest more regularly
• Applying pressure, making run down tackles, being physical
• More intensity on the lead
• Getting up the ground and then wheeling back inside 50 to the space to be a target

My theory on why the forward line has functioned better without King in the past two seasons is intrinsically linked to the above attributes. Yes, the delivery can be better inside 50. But there is no doubt we give up way too many intercept marks when the ball is in King's vicinity. I also believe the forward line has functioned way better as a defensive pressure unit without him. The defensive side of his game could use a hell of a lot of improvement. I saw defenders regularly taking him on with a baulk, as they knew they would face one half-hearted effort and then be free. King showing more conviction and being more demanding on the lead will help also. For me, there is a whole lot of moving slowly and finger pointing where he wants to football, instead of attacking the space and forcing the kicker to hit him. I also believe he has played some of his best football getting up the ground. It throws out opposition defences, creates space for other forwards and also allows him to get separation from defenders zoning off as he charges back into the 50.

All these parts of his game will bring confidence that will further aid what we want - more goals from him and the team.

A caveat to all of the above is hopefully these things weren't occurring because he was injured the last two seasons. If it's not injury causing it, then it's a real concern because it's effort-based. If that's the case, he needs to turn it around.

 

[sammm]

Look at Cordy.. Pretty obvious maybe if they did bring their fitness/running up to elite levels they might've won a few more flags

sat least they got one since 56, we are still waiting from 66.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

This is how he tested in 2023; "Creative forward Lance Collard confirmed his blistering pace with a 2.92 second 20m sprint and combine-topping 8.16 seconds in the agility test, and his 6:32 minute 2km won admirers on Friday." Looks like his tank wasn't a problem then - has he gone backwards since then?

Wow. That’s both amazing and extraordinary (as in wtf) at the same time

 

[StCicatriz]

This is how he tested in 2023; "Creative forward Lance Collard confirmed his blistering pace with a 2.92 second 20m sprint and combine-topping 8.16 seconds in the agility test, and his 6:32 minute 2km won admirers on Friday." Looks like his tank wasn't a problem then - has he gone backwards since then?

2KM isn't repeat sprints needed as a small fwd, but i take your point

my take on collard was that it was more about staying in games and staying switched on when things arent going his way. he can be very hot and cold. needs time to develop and mature (physically and mentally).

 

[BrutThough]

No doubt there is a gap between Steele & Macrae - and the rest.
Still many unanswered questions about the others. Here are just a few for starters.

• Can Pou pick up where he left off?, can he go another level and elevate himself to sit alongside Steele & Macrae?
• If Windy gets an injury free run, is his best role as a run with player or can he be a matchwinner in his own right?
• If Clark gets an injury free run, can he finally cement a spot in the midfield?
• How much upside is there in Carroll ? in Hall ?
• Is 2025 Garcia's breakout year? If not, is Jones our only burst speed from contest option?
• With a full preseason, and now at peak age, what does Dow offer?

Midfield is the one area I feel confident we will see some improvement in 2025.

Reshaping the defence however, will be a learning on the run exercise and I think we'll see a few different things tried throughout the year to cover the loss of Battle.

The line that Im most interested to see play out is the forwards. I still think we are still missing another quality small forward, but again lots of unknowns with how the seasons of Collard, Henry, and Garcia play out. Bolton's influence on the forward line will be another interesting watch.

Although I'm yet to see them kick a footy, it's hard for me to imagine either Boxshall or Said are getting a game next year.

The forward line is the one I'm most interested about as well. On top of what you mentioned, the tall fwd structure is still up for debate. Bolton has a lot of talent to work with so challenge will be to finally get them all working together.

 

[akaifu]

I wasn't comparing him to Allison , I was saying some posters were hyping up Allison last pre season like they are Hall this year and some blokes are just Guns at VFL level but cant take the next step to AFL , we have all seen that a million times

It's not just pre-season. He genuinely had a good finish to the VFL season and would've debuted if the season was a few games longer imo

His stats aren't massive but he's an impact player. Was so creative with ball in hand and set up so many attacking chains. Also got on the end of a few with some good finishing on show

He only needs an injury to one of our half forwards/wingers to get a chance I think

 

[BrutThough]

This is how he tested in 2023; "Creative forward Lance Collard confirmed his blistering pace with a 2.92 second 20m sprint and combine-topping 8.16 seconds in the agility test, and his 6:32 minute 2km won admirers on Friday." Looks like his tank wasn't a problem then - has he gone backwards since then?

That's actually shocking to see.

 

[Yass03]

2KM isn't repeat sprints needed as a small fwd, but i take your point

my take on collard was that it was more about staying in games and staying switched on when things arent going his way. he can be very hot and cold. needs time to develop and mature (physically and mentally).

Personally had a lot of hype for Collard when we drafted him, probably fuelled by Eagles fans pretty upset they couldn't snap him up. However, my hype for him has cooled massively. I feel like we can't expect anything out of him at the moment, not even some flashes of potential. I was glad to see him get a couple games last year but I can't remember the last time I saw someone so off the mark when they got near the footy. Hopefully, he flourishes but all I have for him now is hope .

 

[StCicatriz]

Personally had a lot of hype for Collard when we drafted him, probably fuelled by Eagles fans pretty upset they couldn't snap him up. However, my hype for him has cooled massively. I feel like we can't expect anything out of him at the moment, not even some flashes of potential. I was glad to see him get a couple games last year but I can't remember the last time I saw someone so off the mark when they got near the footy. Hopefully, he flourishes but all I have for him now is hope .

he's going to need another 2 full seasons before you can even start to pass judgment on him TBH

the risk is that he gives up IMO

 

[kick it lace out]

Do we have any indication on how Collard is tracking?

I know most of us have been down on him given his very slow start but I can't shake this nagging feeling that he's going to explode one day.

Normally the clubs play pretty nice with NGA kids, especially later in the draft, but we deliberately picked this kid right before the cutoff knowing the Eagles couldn't match.

Then the club saw fit to give him the #4.

That's not a small thing.

We also know that Ross really wants another goal kicker next to Higgins and that Butler's spot is up for grabs if someone can kick goals as well as play defensively inside 50.

Maybe I'm just trying to 'zag' against the grain here but I kinda wanna see Collard come out and just smash the pre-season and blow up all our 'Best 23' predictions...

If you've read any of my training reports, he's one I've been keeping a close eye on.

This kid could become anything, it really is up to him. He makes footy look super easy, and his skills are next level. Probably one of the most exciting prospects on our list but needs to still do a lot of work.
His general demeanour is of a kid who is laid back, relaxed, almost too relaxed. He strikes me as a kid who is not a huge footy head, and probably enjoys playing more than training. He has definitely improved this pre-season in terms of his fitness levels. On Monday, in one of the drills he nearly took mark of the year - just couldn't hold on the ball.
I know I'm going to get criticised for this comparison, but there's a lot of Shai Bolton about him. Both in the way he plays, but also his attitude. He is super exciting.

 

[FQFjt]

This is how he tested in 2023; "Creative forward Lance Collard confirmed his blistering pace with a 2.92 second 20m sprint and combine-topping 8.16 seconds in the agility test, and his 6:32 minute 2km won admirers on Friday." Looks like his tank wasn't a problem then - has he gone backwards since then?

So Ross was right.

Wonder if he's on some sort of modified running program for some reason. He did have a few injuries last year.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Some comments from me on training today:

• extremely light on with the 15 out.
• so saddening that Tauru is not out there to build some excitement.
• I wasn’t able to see TT closely, but I did see amazing movement (as someone else said he just glides, but in a very fn fast way)! In one drill his hands off the deck were excellent.
• Pou and Garcia exciting. Both were in everything. Tbf, with a whole group of senior guys out, then you’d expect them lead from the front. Pou will be elite and pace wise looks completely different than mid last year.
• Jones always very high intensity and his wheels always bring some excitement.
• Carroll still a very odd delisting to me. Great step and nice foot.
• Dow just doesn’t seem to train with that energy.
• I can’t think of a better kick for a couple of decades than Shoe. Any takers? It’s outrageous. I would usually be a little more on the side of caution given he clearly has some weaknesses. But get him in and use his strengths, just like Hawthorn did with DAmbrosio etc.
• Keeler dropped a number of sitters in a row (chest marks). And although he becomes the man with every other KPF out, he does look like he is more authoritative.
• As others have said, Higgins training hard. Looks slimmer from afar?
• Irish impressive with everything except whether his kicking will hold him back. Hard to improve that side of peoples games.
• As Mike said, McLennan an absolute smoky for R1. Hard to get past and reads it well.
• Dodson will be one big boy.
• Hammer must be getting close. Using that shoulder against the mattress with some force. It’s a shame that it holds him back from going full throttle in the gym as I think he needs more size.

 

[gringo2011]

he's going to need another 2 full seasons before you can even start to pass judgment on him TBH

the risk is that he gives up IMO

He's a real boom bust type. He's unfocussed and distractible but has as much talent as anyone on the list. If he can find a way to be engaged for 20 minutes a match he could be lethal. The type that turns 5 touches into 5 goals.