A Section Premier Division 2020

[AM]

So the aim of those from B to D1 is to bounce up and down in those grades, it's bullshit. Where is Doug to defend them ?

There are measures the mover-n-shakers could introduce to make life more challenging for the wealthy and powerful if they were of a mind to do it.

Call me cynical but I think they're quite content for the top level to remain largely an elitist competition.

Think Doug may have tinkered with his views a tad but is still speaking.

 

[Mike Olotripo]

So the aim of those from B to D1 is to bounce up and down in those grades, it's bullshit. Where is Doug to defend them ?

Bedford, it's cyclical.

Just saying, SKOB were in B grade for a long time and struggled in A grade in 2016 - look at them now.

Caulfield were obliterated in A grade in 2012 and dropped to C grade over the following years before winning their way back from C to B to Premier over the last 4 years.

In the early 2000s, Collegians was a struggling C grade club. Legend has it that the Lions ventured to Glen Eira in this period and lost by 18 goals. In 1996 Collegians was a kick away from beating Xavs in A Grade. In 10-12 years the club went from being near the top of A grade to being pretty close to relegation from C section and then back up to near the top of A grade. Kudos to Wayne Dyer for all his hard work in rebuilding our club.

District clubs have and always will be a very strong part of the VAFA fabric in my mind and will continue to be as long as they have the right foundation, i.e. good links between junior clubs around the area and local schools too, as well as having a good networking group for players.

Things can turn quickly in football, it isn't easy, but with the right attitude and philosophy in place, it can happen.

 

[HedgeFund]

Things can turn quickly in football, it isn't easy, but with the right attitude and philosophy in place, it can happen.

Having a committee with / access to people willing to provide recruits with work opportunities.

if you don’t have that, you don’t reach the peak.

 

[bedford]

Having a committee with / access to people willing to provide recruits with work opportunities.

if you don’t have that, you don’t reach the peak.

Correct

 

[Mike Olotripo]

Having a committee with / access to people willing to provide recruits with work opportunities.

if you don’t have that, you don’t reach the peak.

And buy in from players at your football club who want your club to be successful and help drive success.

 

[flat footy]

Bedford, it's cyclical.

Just saying, SKOB were in B grade for a long time and struggled in A grade in 2016 - look at them now.

Caulfield were obliterated in A grade in 2012 and dropped to C grade over the following years before winning their way back from C to B to Premier over the last 4 years.

In the early 2000s, Collegians was a struggling C grade club. Legend has it that the Lions ventured to Glen Eira in this period and lost by 18 goals. In 1996 Collegians was a kick away from beating Xavs in A Grade. In 10-12 years the club went from being near the top of A grade to being pretty close to relegation from C section and then back up to near the top of A grade. Kudos to Wayne Dyer for all his hard work in rebuilding our club.

District clubs have and always will be a very strong part of the VAFA fabric in my mind and will continue to be as long as they have the right foundation, i.e. good links between junior clubs around the area and local schools too, as well as having a good networking group for players.

Things can turn quickly in football, it isn't easy, but with the right attitude and philosophy in place, it can happen.

The expansion of Private school campuses hasnt helped. When Ormond were the power of A grade, they didnt have to contend
with Hail, Caufield, Wesley and Xav campuses. Families move in to reach these schools specifically and kids are lost to the local comps as they follow their schools direction. With these schools comes their Ammo Club.....also preying on kids who really have no affiliation, except maybe for an Ormond like club.

 

[Gun Island]

The expansion of Private school campuses hasnt helped. When Ormond were the power of A grade, they didnt have to contend
with Hail, Caufield, Wesley and Xav campuses. Families move in to reach these schools specifically and kids are lost to the local comps as they follow their schools direction. With these schools comes their Ammo Club.....also preying on kids who really have no affiliation, except maybe for an Ormond like club.

A spot on wash up on what’s happening , but old friend Bedford won’t cop it .


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[flat footy]

A spot on wash up on what’s happening , but old friend Bedford won’t cop it .


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

GI. B is also correct....It just wont fall in your lap. A Club needs very good, dedicated people with knowledge
in all social spheres to get the ball rolling. Results can and will happen (as listed earlier) if the mix is correct.

 

[Jimmyjack]

A spot on wash up on what’s happening , but old friend Bedford won’t cop it .


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

I note previous reference here to Probuild, one of the largest commercial building companies in the country. Probuild is owned by ex-Ormond legend Phil Mehrten. I seem to recall Phil attended Murrumbeena High so would have no old boy allegiance. In fact, I seem to recall seeing him at the 2018 D1 GF wearing an Ormond polo, so he is obviously still around the traps. Phil could employ half a football team and it would barely make a dent on his bottom line.

Ormond may already tap into Phil or perhaps they choose not to, but my point is that often these networks are right under our nose. Sure, some club have more than others, but they exist at any club, you just need to kick a few rocks to find them. I know for a fact that SKOB, OX, Collegians and Uni Blues have put an extraordinary amount of effort into kicking those rocks. Looks like OMs are now doing likewise.

My own club now finds it self in B grade because we took our eye of the ball and relied almost solely on kids coming through the 19s. This no longer cuts it. While we may not have the same number of contacts and the networks don't have the same prestige, I am sure they exist. Hopefully this will be the catalyst for us working a bit harder on finding them.

 

[HedgeFund]

I note previous reference here to Probuild, one of the largest commercial building companies in the country. Probuild is owned by ex-Ormond legend Phil Mehrten. I seem to recall Phil attended Murrumbeena High so would have no old boy allegiance. In fact, I seem to recall seeing him at the 2018 D1 GF wearing an Ormond polo, so he is obviously still around the traps. Phil could employ half a football team and it would barely make a dent on his bottom line.

Ormond may already tap into Phil or perhaps they choose not to, but my point is that often these networks are right under our nose. Sure, some club have more than others, but they exist at any club, you just need to kick a few rocks to find them. I know for a fact that SKOB, OX, Collegians and Uni Blues have put an extraordinary amount of effort into kicking those rocks. Looks like OMs are now doing likewise.

My own club now finds it self in B grade because we took our eye of the ball and relied almost solely on kids coming through the 19s. This no longer cuts it. While we may not have the same number of contacts and the networks don't have the same prestige, I am sure they exist. Hopefully this will be the catalyst for us working a bit harder on finding them.

If you are 20-24 years old and have been talented enough to make an impact at NAB League level and possibly VFL, you could walk into most suburban league clubs and expect decent cash payment for playing.

Ammo clubs who “get it” understand they need to provide networking opportunities to this level of players (not just the ex-AFL marquees) to enable them to further their non-football careers, whilst also playing a very good standard of footy. Otherwise, they walk, and who can blame them for that?

Not everyone is comfortable enough in life to play purely for the love of the game.

I think the real problem for suburban clubs is that the idea of playing APS/AGSV on Saturday and backing up for an u17/18 game the next day, or even playing ACC on Wednesday and playing local on Sunday is pretty hard to sell with year 11/12 studies as well. So the local footy competition loses heaps of players after u16, and thus the flow from junior to senior club is diminished.

The logical extension of your footy as a 16/17 year old playing only in a school competition is to then “graduate” with those team/school mates to your old boys club.

So if your junior club is replete with lots of private schooled kids, you need to work out how (if at all) to keep contact with them in order to prevent such a mass exodus which results in you not being able to field an under 19 team at all. Seems to be happening a lot more recently.

 

[workhorse]

The expansion of Private school campuses hasnt helped. When Ormond were the power of A grade, they didnt have to contend
with Hail, Caufield, Wesley and Xav campuses. Families move in to reach these schools specifically and kids are lost to the local comps as they follow their schools direction. With these schools comes their Ammo Club.....also preying on kids who really have no affiliation, except maybe for an Ormond like club.

In regards to kids, it's an unfortunate reality and a huge hurdle for district clubs in close proximity to Private Schools. Most of the best kids are lost from their local junior clubs when they get to year 10 as they are told by the schools that they can't play local junior footy because of school footy. By the time they finish Year 12 and look for a club, they're most likely 2-3 years removed from their local club and the easy decision is to join their school mates at the Old Boys club. Now, this is the schools' doing, not the VAFA Old Boys Clubs' themselves, however they are the inadvertent beneficiaries and the district clubs are the ones that suffer.

It's not a complaint, but just a simple fact. My club Kew has an enormous junior club laden with talented boys (and girls), a vast majority of which attend schools like Xavier, Trinity, Marcellin, Carey, Camberwell, Ivanhoe etc. In the last 3-4 years the senior club has taken massive strides in keeping the junior kids involved at the Kew Comets all the way through to Colts and into Under 19's at Kew seniors, which has resulted in our first Under 19 team in a decade being fielded in 2019, and an eventual premiership. It's bloody tough work, and it can be done, however it's worth noting that these hurdles don't exist at every club. It's not just a case of "the club/committee should work harder".

Edit: Hedge basically beat me to it.

 

[Mike Olotripo]

If you are 20-24 years old and have been talented enough to make an impact at NAB League level and possibly VFL, you could walk into most suburban league clubs and expect decent cash payment for playing.

Ammo clubs who “get it” understand they need to provide networking opportunities to this level of players (not just the ex-AFL marquees) to enable them to further their non-football careers, whilst also playing a very good standard of footy. Otherwise, they walk, and who can blame them for that?

Not everyone is comfortable enough in life to play purely for the love of the game.

There is far too much sense being spoken on here today but this is bang on.

Opening the network and connections to non AFL players (VFL and local league players) is what the smarter clubs have started doing a lot more of recently.

 

[Hair Hat]

There is far too much sense being spoken on here today but this is bang on.

Opening the network and connections to non AFL players (VFL and local league players) is what the smarter clubs have started doing a lot more of recently.

I actually think most of this talk is incorrect, too many people make too many excuses. It all gets down to a bunch of people who want their club to play at higher levels, Williamstown and Preston are prime examples. If you don't work hard enough, no matter how big your feeder system is, you're in trouble, just look at Scotch with relegation and OX two years ago, as well as Uni Blues who went from being 11 points from B grade to premiers the next year.

 

[flat footy]

I actually think most of this talk is incorrect, too many people make too many excuses. It all gets down to a bunch of people who want their club to play at higher levels, Williamstown and Preston are prime examples. If you don't work hard enough, no matter how big your feeder system is, you're in trouble, just look at Scotch with relegation and OX two years ago, as well as Uni Blues who went from being 11 points from B grade to premiers the next year.

To all Posters on this subject : There is no substitute for hard work if you want to succeed, no matter what your matter situation
maybe..

 

[jdpie]

To all Posters on this subject : There is no substitute for hard work if you want to succeed, no matter what your matter situation
maybe..

And a slightly skewed system allowing anyone doing a part time degree on line at Curtain University to be a 1 point player at Blues

 

[flat footy]

And a slightly skewed system allowing anyone doing a part time degree on line at Curtain University to be a 1 point player at Blues

Thats another subject for sure.............

 

[AM]

I note previous reference here to Probuild, one of the largest commercial building companies in the country. Probuild is owned by ex-Ormond legend Phil Mehrten. I seem to recall Phil attended Murrumbeena High so would have no old boy allegiance. In fact, I seem to recall seeing him at the 2018 D1 GF wearing an Ormond polo, so he is obviously still around the traps. Phil could employ half a football team and it would barely make a dent on his bottom line.

Ormond may already tap into Phil or perhaps they choose not to, but my point is that often these networks are right under our nose. Sure, some club have more than others, but they exist at any club, you just need to kick a few rocks to find them. I know for a fact that SKOB, OX, Collegians and Uni Blues have put an extraordinary amount of effort into kicking those rocks. Looks like OMs are now doing likewise.

My own club now finds it self in B grade because we took our eye of the ball and relied almost solely on kids coming through the 19s. This no longer cuts it. While we may not have the same number of contacts and the networks don't have the same prestige, I am sure they exist. Hopefully this will be the catalyst for us working a bit harder on finding them.

Not at all sure you're correct in saying that Phil is directly connected to Probuild as we speak JJ.

Anyway, the Monders halcyon days, recruitment wise, were in significant part to do with private schools not having their acts in order and leaving the door open to active recruiters securing their players. Your school being a major contributor to the Monders success. Thanks!

And it wasn't just handy recruiting from the Monders, you sent a player to the club who later won two comp B & Fs telling him he couldn't play. Thanks again!

In today's world district clubs have neither a readymade recruiting pool, like the private schools, the multiplicity of connections, networking or the wealth of the private schools. Particularly those regarded as prestigious.

The movers-n-shakers could make it more challenging for the wealthy and influential but my understanding is there has been quite some blowback as a consequence of the quite mild notion of making some adjustments to the points system. Those who exert influence appear quite comfortable with the status quo.

 

[Jimmyjack]

Not at all sure you're correct in saying that Phil is directly connected to Probuild as we speak JJ.

Anyway, the Monders halcyon days, recruitment wise, were in significant part to do with private schools not having their acts in order and leaving the door open to active recruiters securing their players. Your school being a major contributor to the Monders success. Thanks!

And it wasn't just handy recruiting from the Monders, you sent a player to the club who later won two comp B & Fs telling him he couldn't play. Thanks again!

In today's world district clubs have neither a readymade recruiting pool, like the private schools, the multiplicity of connections, networking or the wealth of the private schools. Particularly those regarded as prestigious.

The movers-n-shakers could make it more challenging for the wealthy and influential but my understanding is there has been quite some blowback as a consequence of the quite mild notion of making some adjustments to the points system. Those who exert influence appear quite comfortable with the status quo.

He may not be now but he certainly was, and until recently also. I was not suggesting Phil would carry Ormond on this shoulders into A grade. Rather just making a point that employment networks exist at all levels.

Who was the dual B&F winner who we "sent" to Ormond? Don't remember my club ever sending any player to another club, no matter how good or bad they might be.

It is my experience that players have bounced backwards and forwards between Ormond and De La for decades based on where we might each be situated at the time.

 

[smoking]

Be careful with generalisations. Round 18 lhis year when OM's had big win over the Premiers only Kavanagh was an ex AFL. All the ins for 2020 are old boys or family connections .[so far]. Uni Blues 43 points OM's 28 - forgot Sanford was 3 points.

 

[Mike Olotripo]

Be careful with generalisations. Round 18 lhis year when OM's had big win over the Premiers only Kavanagh was an ex AFL. All the ins for 2020 are old boys or family connections .[so far]. Uni Blues 43 points OM's 28 - forgot Sanford was 3 points.

That's factually inaccurate as Jackson Paine played that day and kicked a lazy half a dozen goals but he went to Melbourne Grammar, so I understand what you were getting at.

 

[AM]

He may not be now but he certainly was, and until recently also. I was not suggesting Phil would carry Ormond on this shoulders into A grade. Rather just making a point that employment networks exist at all levels.

Who was the dual B&F winner who we "sent" to Ormond? Don't remember my club ever sending any player to another club, no matter how good or bad they might be.

It is my experience that players have bounced backwards and forwards between Ormond and De La for decades based on where we might each be situated at the time.

Matt McConville . Still see your Under 19s coach of the time down Sorrento Shark way. Never tire of thanking him. In fairness, Matt was ungainly and you did have a fearsome junior team at the time.

It was more than a few players going back and forth. Half the ones team were De La boys. Friendly comps between the 'Micks' and 'Prodies' were the order of the day.

 

[Gun Island]

Hard Hat seems to have a great knowledge of A Section.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Mad Lion]

As we depart the 2019's and head to the 2020's very interesting to look at the ladder for the past decade....Collegians and Xavs won exactly the same amount of games....there were only 17 clubs that took part in Premier of which only one (Beaumaris) was a suburban club...no surprises there....the flags were shared amongst six different sides...only 3 sides spent the whole decade in Premier...and the SKOBBERS came with a late burst to register the highest winning % of all the teams at 70% over their fours years in the top flight.....will be interesting to compare this to the next 10 years.....

2010 - 2019 (Incl. Finals)
CLUB	W	L	D	Win %	Yrs Prem	Flags
Collegians	126	66	3	64.62%	10	2
Old Xaverians	126	68	1	64.62%	10	3
De La Salle	95	89	2	51.08%	10	0
University Blues	93	75	4	54.07%	9	1
Old Trinity	77	85	6	45.83%	9	0
Old Scotch	60	68	1	46.51%	7	0
St Bernards	57	55	1	50.44%	6	1
St Kevins	56	24	0	70.00%	4	2
St Bedes	55	75	2	41.67%	7	0
University Blacks	51	43	1	53.68%	5	1
Old Melburnians	45	61	2	41.67%	6	0
Old Carey	29	77	2	26.85%	6	0
Old Brighton	29	43	1	39.73%	4	0
Beaumaris	19	49	4	26.39%	4	0
Old Haileybury	4	14	0	22.22%	1	0
Marcellin	3	15	0	16.67%	1	0
Caulfield Grammarians	0	18	0	0.00%	1	0

 

[From45SlightAngle]

As we depart the 2019's and head to the 2020's very interesting to look at the ladder for the past decade....Collegians and Xavs won exactly the same amount of games....there were only 17 clubs that took part in Premier of which only one (Beaumaris) was a suburban club...no surprises there....the flags were shared amongst six different sides...only 3 sides spent the whole decade in Premier...and the SKOBBERS came with a late burst to register the highest winning % of all the teams at 70% over their fours years in the top flight.....will be interesting to compare this to the next 10 years.....

2010 - 2019 (Incl. Finals)
CLUB	W	L	D	Win %	Yrs Prem	Flags
Collegians	126	66	3	64.62%	10	2
Old Xaverians	126	68	1	64.62%	10	3
De La Salle	95	89	2	51.08%	10	0
University Blues	93	75	4	54.07%	9	1
Old Trinity	77	85	6	45.83%	9	0
Old Scotch	60	68	1	46.51%	7	0
St Bernards	57	55	1	50.44%	6	1
St Kevins	56	24	0	70.00%	4	2
St Bedes	55	75	2	41.67%	7	0
University Blacks	51	43	1	53.68%	5	1
Old Melburnians	45	61	2	41.67%	6	0
Old Carey	29	77	2	26.85%	6	0
Old Brighton	29	43	1	39.73%	4	0
Beaumaris	19	49	4	26.39%	4	0
Old Haileybury	4	14	0	22.22%	1	0
Marcellin	3	15	0	16.67%	1	0
Caulfield Grammarians	0	18	0	0.00%	1	0

The fielders will be hoping to improve their record the next decade onward methinks!

 

[Mike Olotripo]

As we depart the 2019's and head to the 2020's very interesting to look at the ladder for the past decade....Collegians and Xavs won exactly the same amount of games....there were only 17 clubs that took part in Premier of which only one (Beaumaris) was a suburban club...no surprises there....the flags were shared amongst six different sides...only 3 sides spent the whole decade in Premier...and the SKOBBERS came with a late burst to register the highest winning % of all the teams at 70% over their fours years in the top flight.....will be interesting to compare this to the next 10 years.....

2010 - 2019 (Incl. Finals)
CLUB	W	L	D	Win %	Yrs Prem	Flags
Collegians	126	66	3	64.62%	10	2
Old Xaverians	126	68	1	64.62%	10	3
De La Salle	95	89	2	51.08%	10	0
University Blues	93	75	4	54.07%	9	1
Old Trinity	77	85	6	45.83%	9	0
Old Scotch	60	68	1	46.51%	7	0
St Bernards	57	55	1	50.44%	6	1
St Kevins	56	24	0	70.00%	4	2
St Bedes	55	75	2	41.67%	7	0
University Blacks	51	43	1	53.68%	5	1
Old Melburnians	45	61	2	41.67%	6	0
Old Carey	29	77	2	26.85%	6	0
Old Brighton	29	43	1	39.73%	4	0
Beaumaris	19	49	4	26.39%	4	0
Old Haileybury	4	14	0	22.22%	1	0
Marcellin	3	15	0	16.67%	1	0
Caulfield Grammarians	0	18	0	0.00%	1	0

The Lions have had a tremendous decade. May it continue for many more decades to come.