NSW Premier "iCare" Perrottet and the Libs' Poison Chalice

[FredLeDeux]

I think worth noting in all of this is that the libertarian "let it rip" strategy, or whatever more disingenuous means they use to describe it, is exceptionally bad for the economy.

People don't want to, or can't afford to, get seriously ill during a pandemic. And it's really really bad if they do at a high rate.

Likewise, the long term costs of morbidity and mortality, are far higher than the short term costs of increased government support and subsidising emergency and preventative measures. For example Rapid Antigen Tests absolutely need to be free.

Not to mention the personal, family and economic effects of Long Covid; this from the UK, because I haven't seen anything from Australia:

More than a million of us are suffering with long Covid – yet still it’s not taken seriously

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/22/long-covid-pandemic-support-funding

 

[Crankyhawk]

No one should be denied care and making antivaxxers pay seems like a red herring to undermine universal healthcare.

I understand if due to triage they are placed behind the vaccinated or vulnerable, but I'm not comfortable with the system allocating costs based on poor decision making.

When health system is needing to make resource allocation decisions, vax status could be a decider if other clinical features are equal. (This is in the setting of an overwhelmed system we are not there yet)

 

[Crankyhawk]

Well the let it rip "personal responsibility" ideological nonsense only lasted 4 or 5 days .

The NSW govt egged on by the cheerleading muppet in the Lodge has once again been caught out choosing ego, political ideology and state parochialism over basic health advice only for them to crawl back with their tails between their legs.

But hey, every other state should follow the NSW govt .

I give some credit for realising the need to change. Scomo would’ve doubled down on personal responsibility and living with virus messages and provide no leadership.
It’s a low bar but dom >> scomo

 

[Crankyhawk]

Here is a link to a Dr John Campbell who speaks daily about Covid, speaks in layman's terms using Covid Tracker off the CDC page. In this talk he mentions, in depth, what Australia is doing re the new strain.

damn fool pushing natural infection as solution again
when the data show natural infection does not protect as well as vaccination does for endpoints of hospitalisation and death

Laboratory-Confirmed COVID-19 Among Adults Hospitalized with COVID-19–Like Illness with Infection-Induced or mRNA Vaccine-Induced SARS-CoV-2 Immunity — Nine States, January–September 2021 | MMWR (cdc.gov)

this was a pre omicron report.

Report 50 - Hospitalisation risk for Omicron cases in England | Faculty of Medicine | Imperial College London

this is more omicron specific, while it says prior infection reduces reinfection risk by 69% theres no comparitor vs vaccination effectiveness in the summary (the tables aren't expanding for me)

COVID-19-daily-admissions-and-beds-20211222.xlsx (live.com)

This shows current England COVID hospitalisations (up to 20/12/21) and in contrast to Dr Campbell it seems a steady trend of increase (new hospital cases 700 to 1000/ day, new admissions from community 624 to 837)

edit
- misquotes permissive hypotension in that you do it until you have corrected the underlying injury
- doesn't mention the existing high australian vaccination rate (strategy is really vaccinate + permissive infection, not just permissive infection)
- idiot thinks modelling has to be 100% accurate yet thinks Scomo can be trusted? Scomo is a liar
- "coping well" fmd we have had to shut down elective surgery, shut down satellite hospitals to centralise staff
- exactly what forking surge hospital capacity? (Dr Campbell is quoting the Aust CHO, so not his fault there)
- he's only quoting non clinical bureaucrats (the CHO have no idea of front line issues, because they are fed BS by mid level non clinical supervisory staff who have insecure jobs so tell the higher ups what they want to hear, and us clinical staff do not get heard)
- he has not shown evidence for claim that 40% are incidental (I accept there is a number of incidental but he should provide a source/ reference for this)
- just blows past "so many staff are isolating" without realising that this is a big problem - ie that is the lack of surge capacity.
- makes up numbers about how much of south africa has had omicron ("50% of the country wtf")

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Thank you for guaranteeing Albo will get in and turn out to be a combination of Morrrison, Dutton, Laming and Craig Kelly that nobody saw coming

Tell me about the alternative.

BTW, Albo is none of that.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Dom ****ed it royally.

‘Possibly thousands’ of restaurants, cafes forced shut by Omicron — Daily Telegraph

The number of eateries closing their doors due to Omicron could be in the thousands, says an industry heavyweight, who has urged the NSW government to act.

apple.news

 

[Gralin]

Tell me about the alternative.

BTW, Albo is none of that.

Lol way to miss the joke

 

[JBMAN]

damn fool pushing natural infection as solution again
when the data show natural infection does not protect as well as vaccination does for endpoints of hospitalisation and death

Laboratory-Confirmed COVID-19 Among Adults Hospitalized with COVID-19–Like Illness with Infection-Induced or mRNA Vaccine-Induced SARS-CoV-2 Immunity — Nine States, January–September 2021 | MMWR (cdc.gov)

this was a pre omicron report.

Report 50 - Hospitalisation risk for Omicron cases in England | Faculty of Medicine | Imperial College London

this is more omicron specific, while it says prior infection reduces reinfection risk by 69% theres no comparitor vs vaccination effectiveness in the summary (the tables aren't expanding for me)

I think he was pushing both natural and vaccination said that either one alone won't work.

 

[Crankyhawk]

It's so funny watching the media blue checks and pundits in Victoria and nationally jump offline for an afternoon when news in NSW causes some to extract feet from mouths.

If it's was Vic backtracking and introducing density limits we'd have everyone from Baxendale, to Leigh Sales, to the AFR flogs bellyaching well into the night.

Coatsworth would be on standby for the media rounds all day tomorrow.

End of the world stuff.


View attachment 1301434

There should be a law specifically protecting not banning the twitter bullying of media figures in this country.

I think you are safe as long as you direct criticism around the ACTIONS of media figures, sticking to facts of what has been published and not published.

 

[JBMAN]

Interesting descriptive rant on 'personalities'. What about the policies? Like the current 'let it rip' for Covid. The 'personal responsibility' & bugger everyone else stuff'. What about the out of control Pork barreling & the massive Federal debt situation (that was bad based on LNP debt bus standards even before Covid!)

How long before 'PairOtits' gets right on the nose in NSW. Even the Tasmanian Liberal Premier asked NSW to pull their weight in trying to slow the Omicron Covid.

You can cheer squad whatever you like but maybe critique whats been good about the last 8 years?

The personalities wasn't started by me I merely answered criticism of Morrison. Pork barrelling, ask Rudd about that he was pretty good as have been both parties for ever. The debt, the biggest percentage rise in debt was under Rudd and all those who followed added to it. PairOtits as you call him, only time will tell if he has made the right decision. Case numbers are high but so far death rate is way below Victoria. I'm no virologist so I only know what I read on the net and early indications are that this could be the way out of Covid and we can't keep locking down forever. What's been good for the last 8 years, not a lot but I think Morrison has done ok under the circumstances, don't think he is great , just think he is better than what Labor have put up. Just my opinion.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Lol way to miss the joke

Good enough. It’s late.

 

[Crankyhawk]

I think he was pushing both natural and vaccination said that either one alone won't work.

not the way I heard it, seemed to me to be saying that IgA only generated via natural infection (possibly true) but then extrapolates this to better activity at protecting mucosa - but IgA needs the antigen to get into the immune system first before IgA is produced as a response

 

[JBMAN]

not the way I heard it, seemed to me to be saying that IgA only generated via natural infection (possibly true) but then extrapolates this to better activity at protecting mucosa - but IgA needs the antigen to get into the immune system first before IgA is produced as a response

Yes that's correct it is only generated naturally but he made a point of saying that if you are fully vaxed you get the other two as well, cant remember the names and that the combination of the three gives the ultimate protection.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Yes that's correct it is only generated naturally but he made a point of saying that if you are fully vaxed you get the other two as well, cant remember the names and that the combination of the three gives the ultimate protection.

IgG and IgM, which are also from natural infection. The idea being that the IgG and M response if you then get an actual infection exposure you produce IgG and M to reduce/ eliminate virus. If you get a clinical breakthrough infection you would also produce IgA I think.
the problem being that (and he did concede as well) that omicron breakthrough infections are happening at higher rate cf delta reinfections

even if hospitalisation rate of omicron is 2/3 less (ie 1/3 hospital rate of delta) we would still be in trouble if infection rates are more than triple the peak of delta (as far as hospital beds go, add in effect of staff furlough from increased community exposure - in this an omicron covid case is as "furlough causing" as a delta case

 

[madmug]

The personalities wasn't started by me I merely answered criticism of Morrison. Pork barrelling, ask Rudd about that he was pretty good as have been both parties for ever. The debt, the biggest percentage rise in debt was under Rudd and all those who followed added to it. PairOtits as you call him, only time will tell if he has made the right decision. Case numbers are high but so far death rate is way below Victoria. I'm no virologist so I only know what I read on the net and early indications are that this could be the way out of Covid and we can't keep locking down forever. What's been good for the last 8 years, not a lot but I think Morrison has done ok under the circumstances, don't think he is great , just think he is better than what Labor have put up. Just my opinion.

Your opinion is fine, I just asked what has been so great over the last 8 years? What wonderful policies have they given us? Abbott, Turnbull, Scummo? What wonderful improvements to the NBN did they give us after 2013? Anything on wage stagnation/theft? Anything on a Federal ICAC? Anything you can think of will do. Robodebt, was that good policy? Even the Covid19 response, handing $billions to companies that didn't really qualify for it through demonstrated losses, then not bothering to get it back, was that good economic policy?

Also, It may be that the Fed Debt went up quicker under Rudd. I guess the immediate response to the GEC necessitated such a spend. The worlds economists seemed to think it was a good response. Some countries went through a painfully slow recovery, we didn't.

Again, please explain why the economic experts doubled that debt between 2013 & 2019 when the world had effectively got back into stronger economic/growth times again?

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Your opinion is fine, I just asked what has been so great over the last 8 years? What wonderful policies have they given us? Abbott, Turnbull, Scummo? What wonderful improvements to the NBN did they give us after 2013? Anything on wage stagnation/theft? Anything on a Federal ICAC? Anything you can think of will do. Robodebt, was that good policy? Even the Covid19 response, handing $billions to companies that didn't really qualify for it through demonstrated losses, then not bothering to get it back, was that good economic policy?

Also, It may be that the Fed Debt went up quicker under Rudd. I guess the immediate response to the GEC necessitated such a spend. The worlds economists seemed to think it was a good response. Some countries went through a painfully slow recovery, we didn't.

Again, please explain why the economic experts doubled that debt between 2013 & 2019 when the world had effectively got back into stronger economic/growth times again?

Well if you owned a house through that period you made a lot of coin.

the libs pull the leadership change and argue the current leader should only be judged on last short period, not fact that the party has had control for 8 years and can’t point to one milestone piece of legislation.

 

[cartwright]

Expect this to be the headline tomorrow in DT /s

 

[JBMAN]

Your opinion is fine, I just asked what has been so great over the last 8 years? What wonderful policies have they given us? Abbott, Turnbull, Scummo? What wonderful improvements to the NBN did they give us after 2013? Anything on wage stagnation/theft? Anything on a Federal ICAC? Anything you can think of will do. Robodebt, was that good policy? Even the Covid19 response, handing $billions to companies that didn't really qualify for it through demonstrated losses, then not bothering to get it back, was that good economic policy?

Also, It may be that the Fed Debt went up quicker under Rudd. I guess the immediate response to the GEC necessitated such a spend. The worlds economists seemed to think it was a good response. Some countries went through a painfully slow recovery, we didn't.

Again, please explain why the economic experts doubled that debt between 2013 & 2019 when the world had effectively got back into stronger economic/growth times again?

I am in no way sticking up for Turnbull or Abbott they are as bad as Rudd, infact after Keating and Howard the PM's have been hopeless Turnbull and Rudd are the worst two PM's ever. I am only defending Morrison, who in my opinion and on this forum, the only Morrison supporter, is doing a reasonable job. He got off to a bad start but by world standards we are doing far better than most. Re doubling the debt, not disagreeing with you I don't support any party as such I vote for who I think is the best leader available at the time. This time I think Morrison is clearly ahead of Albanese it wouldn't matter to me if he was Liberal or Labor.

 

[JBMAN]

Expect this to be the headline tomorrow in DT /s

Have a look at the deaths.

 

[Punt rd end]

Have a look at the deaths.

1476 in Victoria, 670ish from glady's stuff up add that to NSW's 648 and NSW's total is 1318 and climbing

 

[Deliverance]

1476 in Victoria, 670ish from glady's stuff up add that to NSW's 648 and NSW's total is 1318 and climbing

If you're adding 670 Victorian deaths to NSW, you may as well just add everything to China and be done with it.

 

[JBMAN]

1476 in Victoria, 670ish from glady's stuff up add that to NSW's 648 and NSW's total is 1318 and climbing

I'm saying look at the daily deaths now that NSW is almost totally Omicron and Victoria mainly Delta, this is not about politics this is highlighting the big difference in mortality and sickness between the two variants, I think it is positive.

 

[Brad Goodman]

I'm saying look at the daily deaths now that NSW is almost totally Omicron and Victoria mainly Delta, this is not about politics this is highlighting the big difference in mortality and sickness between the two variants, I think it is positive.

People get Covid then drop dead the next day now? When did it change?

 

[JBMAN]

People get Covid then drop dead the next day now? When did it change?

Not sure what you are asking there, but Omicron has been in NSW now for 4 weeks which is plenty of time for deaths. These results are just mimicking results in other parts of the world.

 

[Punt rd end]

If you're adding 670 Victorian deaths to NSW, you may as well just add everything to China and be done with it.

We were cruising until gladys and her anti lockdown policy infected NSW, Vic, ACT and NZ it is what it is