Premiership hangovers

[terrybull]

in 1916, fitzroy won the wooden spoon in a 4 team competition playing badly during the regular season.

since this was during ww1, all four teams played in the finals and then won the premiership with a stunning form reversal.

the best modern example is adelaide who fell to 13th in 1999 after the flag in 98. this is the lowest fall possible since there were only 12 teams before the comp expanded.

so adelaide are the lowest and fitrzroy won the wooden spoon and premiership.

To make it more confusing;

Richmond who finished the home and away third, got knocked out in the first final and therefore finished last.

But… many count the wooden spoon after the home and away season as one does with many other awards. So Fitzroy got the wooden spoon and the Premiership.

So to save arguments, the official stance is an asterisk with both teams allotted the wooden spoon so you can decide how the criteria works in your world.

I personally prefer wooden spoons should be allotted after the home and away. But I agree Richmond finished last, but Fitzroy got the spoon (don’t think they would have been to sad that year).

 

[Mr Meow]

Geelong were very efficient against Collingwood and Carlton in their first 2 matches, they’d have lost by more otherwise.

Also most people expected the cats to be right in the mix again, bit of rewriting history to say “everyone” expected them to drop off.

Geelong stuck with Collingwood for 3 quarters but went in without J.Henry, Duncan and Bowes, lost Stewart straight away and SDK + Stengle copped early knocks and could barely contribute after. A running out of legs situation.

The next week they also went in without Kolodjashnij, SDK was proppy and Curnow dominated. Geelong still got within a couple of goals of Carlton.

Hawkins took a month to get fit after late surgery.

Undoubtedly a bad start, but not a lot was going right.

 

[Roobs321]

Crows in 1999 first that come to mind for me. They were 10th going into the final month though, and their seven double fixtures were all against sides finishing in the top 10 which is a bit stiff.

Freo had a pretty decent minor premiership hangover falling 16 spots on the H&A ladder last year.

Was thinking this too. The writing was on the wall, there was a point during 2015 when the window palpably closed, but still they went from minor premier hosting a prelim to an 11 match losing streak which is rough.

 

[Roylion]

So to save arguments, the official stance is an asterisk with both teams allotted the wooden spoon so you can decide how the criteria works in your world.

Richmond were the 1916 wooden spooners. They finished last at the end of the season.

 

[terrybull]

Richmond were the 1916 wooden spooners. They finished last at the end of the season.

That’s the way you count it.

I count it the other way (like you do with the Brownlow, Coleman etc).

Richmond finished last but Fitzroy got the wooden spoon.

No need to argue about it as both versions are correct or incorrect as it’s not an official award.

Most sites like wiki has Fitzroy and Richmond sharing the 1916 wooden spoon.

 

[Roylion]

That’s the way you count it.

Yes. Last at the end of the season is always the way the wooden spoon has been determined.

I count it the other way (like you do with the Brownlow, Coleman etc).

The AFL count it that way.

 

[terrybull]

Yes. Last at the end of the season is always the way the wooden spoon has been determined.


The AFL count it that way.

Source from the AFL?

And yes as I staten before I agree that Richmond finished last in 1916.

But Fitzroy finished last in 1916 after the Home and Away.

So what is the criteria for the Wooden spoon?

I don’t think there is one as it’s not an official award.

Just because you count it as the end of the season and I count it at the end of the home and away does not mean we are right or wrong.

But you state the AFL count the Wooden spoon as the team that comes at the end of the season and not at the end of the home and away? Well you have to show proof from the AFL actually stating this, I have searched and found nothing.

That is why there is an asterisk besides 1916* regarding the wooden spoon.

Brisbane Lions have to claimed it

The 1916 Fitzroy Premiership*

In the 1916 VFL season, under the most bizarre circumstances, Fitzroy claimed both the Premiership and wooden-spoon in the same season.

www.lions.com.au

 

[Roylion]

Source from the AFL?

And yes as I staten before I agree that Richmond finished last in 1916.

But Fitzroy finished last in 1916 after the Home and Away.

The recipient of the wooden spoon has always been the club that was last on the ladder at the end of the season.

Brisbane Lions have to claimed it

The Brisbane Lions didn't exist in 1916. They have three premierships.

 

[Ed_Gein]

I had a hangover the morning after we won it in 2005 and 2012

 

[terrybull]

The recipient of the wooden spoon has always been the club that was last on the ladder at the end of the season.


The Brisbane Lions didn't exist in 1916. They have three premierships.

You are avoiding my previous statements. And not supplying any source from the AFL.

1916 was a unique season.

There seems to be no criteria how to count the wooden spoon.

Usually the team that finishes on the bottom after the home and away also finishes on the bottom at the seasons end. 1916 this didn’t happen.

Unless you supply proof on how the AFL officially count wooden spoons (don’t think they care) then you won’t be able to convince me that you are right, as I won’t be able to convince you that I am right.

So it’s an argument filler. Some will say it’s Fitzroy spoon (me), some will say Richmond spoon (you) and some will say both.

 

[Roylion]

You are avoiding my previous statements. And not supplying any source from the AFL.

There is no source. Last on the ladder at the end of the season gains the "wooden spoon". In 1916 that was Richmond. The official AFL Season Guide recognises Richmond as the wooden spooners for the 1916 VFL season.

Usually the team that finishes on the bottom after the home and away also finishes on the bottom at the seasons end. 1916 this didn’t happen.

That's because the club that finished on the bottom ended their season. In 1916, the season was still going for all the participating clubs. The premier does not necessarily finish first at the end of each home and away season. Otherwise Port Adelaide would have been the premier in 2020 and not Richmond.

Unless you supply proof on how the AFL officially count wooden spoons (don’t think they care)

I'm not interested in providing proof, other than observing the results of the 127 odd seasons of the VFL-AFL.

then you won’t be able to convince me that you are right, as I won’t be able to convince you that I am right.

So be it.

 

[terrybull]

There is no source. Last on the ladder at the end of the season gains the "wooden spoon". In 1916 that was Richmond. The official AFL Season Guide recognises Richmond as the wooden spooners for the 1916 VFL season.


That's because the club that finished on the bottom ended their season. In 1916, the season was still going for all the participating clubs. The premier does not necessarily finish first at the end of each home and away season. Otherwise Port Adelaide would have been the premier in 2020 and not Richmond.



I'm not interested in providing proof, other than observing the results of the 127 odd seasons of the VFL-AFL.


So be it.

So be it

 

[catters05]

? If you're talking about Geelong they were competitive in their opening losses, and everyone expected them to drop off anyway. Pies have just been outplayed from the opening bounce.

We were crap.

 

[Back One Out]

Geelong they were competitive in their opening losses, and everyone expected them to drop off anyway.

Nope. Geelong were the premiership favourites heading into the 2023 season. Most of the pundits in the media were tipping them to go back-to-back. Nobody saw the drop-off coming, except for the haters who'd been predicting Geelong's demise every year since 2015. (People jumped off the Cats pretty quickly once the season started and they were 0-3 after 3 rounds.)

Eventual premiers, Collingwood were the popular tip to be the competition 'sliders'. The general wisdom from the so-called "experts" was the Pies got lucky winning so many close games in 2022 and reaching the Prelim Final, and they couldn't possibly replicate the feat again. (The fickle media jumped back on the Pies bandwagon pretty quickly when they burst out of the blocks with 3 straight wins over Geel, Port and Rich.)



Here is last year's 'Crystal Ball' preview for the 2023 season on the AFL website

Crystal Ball: Our predictions for the 2023 AFL season are in

Premiership, Brownlow, recruit of the year. We make the call

www.afl.com.au

4 of the 10 pundits tipped Geelong to be premiers.
2 of them said they'd be runners-up and 3 of the others said they'd finish 3rd
Cal Twomey was the only one who had the Cats outside the top 4 (in 5th place)

9 of the 10 had the Pies dropping out of the top 4 and finishing 7th-8th-9th-10th


These opinions were pretty much shared across the board by the sheep on all the other websites.


Damian Barrett
Premier: Geelong
Runner-up: Brisbane

1. Brisbane
2. Geelong
3. Sydney
4. Carlton
5. Melbourne
6. Port
7. Collingwood
8. Fremantle
9. Richmond
10. Bulldogs
11. Adelaide
12. Giants
13. St Kilda
14. Gold Coast
15. Essendon
16. West Coast
17. Hawthorn
18. North



Gemma Bastiani
Premier: Brisbane
Runner-up: Geelong

1. Brisbane
2. Geelong
3. Melbourne
4. Sydney
5. Fremantle
6. Bulldogs
7. Collingwood
8. Richmond
9. Carlton
10. Gold Coast
11. Port
12. Giants
13. Essendon
14. Adelaide
15. Hawthorn
16. West Coast
17. St Kilda
18. North


Riley Beveridge
Premier: Melbourne
Runner-up: Brisbane

1. Melbourne
2. Brisbane
3. Geelong
4. Richmond
5. Sydney
6. Carlton
7. Bulldogs
8. Collingwood
9. Fremantle
10. Port
11. Giants
12. Gold Coast
13. Adelaide
14. West Coast
15. Essendon
16. St Kilda
17. North
18. Hawthorn



Sarah Black
Premier: Geelong
Runner-up: Melbourne

1. Geelong
2. Melbourne
3. Brisbane
4. Sydney
5. Richmond
6. Bulldogs
7. Fremantle
8. Collingwood
9. Carlton
10. Port
11. Giants
12. Gold Coast
13. Essendon
14. Adelaide
15. St Kilda
16. West Coast
17. North
18. Hawthorn


Nat Edwards
Premier: Brisbane
Runner-up: Geelong

1. Brisbane
2. Melbourne
3. Geelong
4. Sydney
5. Richmond
6. Carlton
7. Bulldogs
8. Fremantle
9. Port
10. Collingwood
11. Gold Coast
12. Adelaide
13. Giants
14. West Coast
15. Essendon
16. St Kilda
17. North
18. Hawthorn




Josh Gabelich
Premier: Melbourne
Runner-up: Brisbane

1. Melbourne
2. Brisbane
3. Geelong
4. Carlton
5. Richmond
6. Bulldogs
7. Sydney
8. Collingwood
9. Port
10. Fremantle
11. Gold Coast
12. Giants
13. Adelaide
14. St Kilda
15. Essendon
16. Hawthorn
17. West Coast
18. North



Sarah Olle
Premier: Geelong
Runner-up: Melbourne

1. Geelong
2. Melbourne
3. Brisbane
4. Richmond
5. Carlton
6. Sydney
7. Bulldogs
8. Collingwood
9. Giants
10. Gold Coast
11. Fremantle
12. Port
13. Adelaide
14. St Kilda
15. Essendon
16. West Coast
17. North
18. Hawthorn


Nathan Schmook
Premier: Melbourne
Runner-up: Brisbane

1. Melbourne
2. Brisbane
3. Geelong
4. Sydney
5. Fremantle
6. Carlton
7. Bulldogs
8. Richmond
9. Collingwood
10. Adelaide
11. Gold Coast
12. Port
13. Giants
14. West Coast
15. Essendon
16. St Kilda
17. North
18. Hawthorn


Callum Twomey
Premier: Melbourne
Runner-up: Brisbane

1. Melbourne
2. Brisbane
3. Richmond
4. Collingwood
5. Geelong
6. Carlton
7. Port
8. Bulldogs
9. Sydney
10. Fremantle
11. Gold Coast
12. Giants
13. Adelaide
14. Essendon
15. St Kilda
16. North
17. West Coast
18. Hawthorn


Michael Whiting
Premier: Geelong
Runner-up: Brisbane

1. Geelong
2. Brisbane
3. Melbourne
4. Sydney
5. Bulldogs
6. Carlton
7. Gold Coast
8. Collingwood
9. Fremantle
10. Port
11. Richmond
12. Adelaide
13. West Coast
14. Giants
15. St Kilda
16. Essendon
17. Hawthorn
18. North

 

[peetoo]

Nope. Geelong were the premiership favourites heading into the 2023 season. Most of the pundits in the media were tipping them to go back-to-back. Nobody saw the drop-off coming, except for the haters who'd been predicting Geelong's demise every year since 2015. (People jumped off the Cats pretty quickly once the season started and they were 0-3 after 3 rounds.)

Eventual premiers, Collingwood were the popular tip to be the competition 'sliders'. The general wisdom from the so-called "experts" was the Pies got lucky winning so many close games in 2022 and reaching the Prelim Final, and they couldn't possibly replicate the feat again. (The fickle media jumped back on the Pies bandwagon pretty quickly when they burst out of the blocks with 3 straight wins over Geel, Port and Rich.)



Here is last year's 'Crystal Ball' preview for the 2023 season on the AFL website

Crystal Ball: Our predictions for the 2023 AFL season are in

Premiership, Brownlow, recruit of the year. We make the call

www.afl.com.au

4 of the 10 pundits tipped Geelong to be premiers.
2 of them said they'd be runners-up and 3 of the others said they'd finish 3rd
Cal Twomey was the only one who had the Cats outside the top 4 (in 5th place)

9 of the 10 had the Pies dropping out of the top 4 and finishing 7th-8th-9th-10th


These opinions were pretty much shared across the board by the sheep on all the other websites.


Damian Barrett
Premier: Geelong
Runner-up: Brisbane

1. Brisbane
2. Geelong
3. Sydney
4. Carlton
5. Melbourne
6. Port
7. Collingwood
8. Fremantle
9. Richmond
10. Bulldogs
11. Adelaide
12. Giants
13. St Kilda
14. Gold Coast
15. Essendon
16. West Coast
17. Hawthorn
18. North



Gemma Bastiani
Premier: Brisbane
Runner-up: Geelong

1. Brisbane
2. Geelong
3. Melbourne
4. Sydney
5. Fremantle
6. Bulldogs
7. Collingwood
8. Richmond
9. Carlton
10. Gold Coast
11. Port
12. Giants
13. Essendon
14. Adelaide
15. Hawthorn
16. West Coast
17. St Kilda
18. North


Riley Beveridge
Premier: Melbourne
Runner-up: Brisbane

1. Melbourne
2. Brisbane
3. Geelong
4. Richmond
5. Sydney
6. Carlton
7. Bulldogs
8. Collingwood
9. Fremantle
10. Port
11. Giants
12. Gold Coast
13. Adelaide
14. West Coast
15. Essendon
16. St Kilda
17. North
18. Hawthorn



Sarah Black
Premier: Geelong
Runner-up: Melbourne

1. Geelong
2. Melbourne
3. Brisbane
4. Sydney
5. Richmond
6. Bulldogs
7. Fremantle
8. Collingwood
9. Carlton
10. Port
11. Giants
12. Gold Coast
13. Essendon
14. Adelaide
15. St Kilda
16. West Coast
17. North
18. Hawthorn


Nat Edwards
Premier: Brisbane
Runner-up: Geelong

1. Brisbane
2. Melbourne
3. Geelong
4. Sydney
5. Richmond
6. Carlton
7. Bulldogs
8. Fremantle
9. Port
10. Collingwood
11. Gold Coast
12. Adelaide
13. Giants
14. West Coast
15. Essendon
16. St Kilda
17. North
18. Hawthorn




Josh Gabelich
Premier: Melbourne
Runner-up: Brisbane

1. Melbourne
2. Brisbane
3. Geelong
4. Carlton
5. Richmond
6. Bulldogs
7. Sydney
8. Collingwood
9. Port
10. Fremantle
11. Gold Coast
12. Giants
13. Adelaide
14. St Kilda
15. Essendon
16. Hawthorn
17. West Coast
18. North



Sarah Olle
Premier: Geelong
Runner-up: Melbourne

1. Geelong
2. Melbourne
3. Brisbane
4. Richmond
5. Carlton
6. Sydney
7. Bulldogs
8. Collingwood
9. Giants
10. Gold Coast
11. Fremantle
12. Port
13. Adelaide
14. St Kilda
15. Essendon
16. West Coast
17. North
18. Hawthorn


Nathan Schmook
Premier: Melbourne
Runner-up: Brisbane

1. Melbourne
2. Brisbane
3. Geelong
4. Sydney
5. Fremantle
6. Carlton
7. Bulldogs
8. Richmond
9. Collingwood
10. Adelaide
11. Gold Coast
12. Port
13. Giants
14. West Coast
15. Essendon
16. St Kilda
17. North
18. Hawthorn


Callum Twomey
Premier: Melbourne
Runner-up: Brisbane

1. Melbourne
2. Brisbane
3. Richmond
4. Collingwood
5. Geelong
6. Carlton
7. Port
8. Bulldogs
9. Sydney
10. Fremantle
11. Gold Coast
12. Giants
13. Adelaide
14. Essendon
15. St Kilda
16. North
17. West Coast
18. Hawthorn


Michael Whiting
Premier: Geelong
Runner-up: Brisbane

1. Geelong
2. Brisbane
3. Melbourne
4. Sydney
5. Bulldogs
6. Carlton
7. Gold Coast
8. Collingwood
9. Fremantle
10. Port
11. Richmond
12. Adelaide
13. West Coast
14. Giants
15. St Kilda
16. Essendon
17. Hawthorn
18. North

Hawks their pick for the spoon too

 

[Back One Out]

Hawks their pick for the spoon too

Many people have been tipping Hawks for the spoon for the last 5 or 6 years.

Maybe this will be the year???

 

[peetoo]

Many people have been tipping Hawks for the spoon for the last 5 or 6 years.

Maybe this will be the year???

Currently above richmond brisbane Collingwood on the ladder. I think we were 18th this time 2023

 

[Free Agent]

Our premiership hangover is still going from 2018.

This year will be the 6th year in our premiership hangover.

 

[NetworkNerd]

Pies looking very shaky. And with tough games against Carlton, Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne to round out the year

 

[peetoo]

Pies looking very shaky. And with tough games against Carlton, Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne to round out the year

Is that you BT? Hawks will be tougher than melbourne

 

[Art Vandelay_]

2021, 2023 and possibly 2024 could see the premiers miss finals. 2022 saw the premiers bounce out in straight sets.
Hasn't been easy to back up the next year of late.

 

[Freomaniac]

Freo had a pretty decent minor premiership hangover falling 16 spots on the H&A ladder last year.

And that 2016 Freo season ended up being a fluke

 

[btdg]

2021, 2023 and possibly 2024 could see the premiers miss finals. 2022 saw the premiers bounce out in straight sets.
Hasn't been easy to back up the next year of late.

The season is starting earlier and earlier. Go back to 2012 and the first match was March 29. Historically the season began on the first weekend on April (pre bye) and once upon a time it was May (ie a genuinely winter sport)

Round 1 has crept forward (with the pre finals bye contributing) and then this year they added Round 0 and had the first game on March 7th, more than 3 weeks earlier than 2012.

Pre season is getting shorter and shorter, and the premiers and runners up have the shortest turnaround of all.

 

[Worm4]