Game Day Preseason Scrimmage -West Coast v Fremantle, Sat 24/2 : Let the melts begin

[Bacchus]

Look I enjoyed the melts as much as the next man, and a bunch of you do desperately need to take a Bex and a lie down.

However, I will say this: I'm not sure I would have turned down an offer for our 2024 first round pick.

What were the offers for our 2024 first round pick.

I didn’t hear that there were any. We supposedly offered the pick to Adelaide for Curtin and they refused.

Are you talking about our 2023 first round pick ie Harley?

I thought Harley showed a fair bit last night. He’s certainly not afraid to tackle and get his hands dirty.
He needs time to develop his game at the higher level.

As for offers for the 2023 first pick there were hardly any “head turners” or ones that “couldn’t be refused”.

 

[random260]

That hitout not surprised.

The only two take aways is
1. Finally we chucked cal jam a tall guy in defence all it took was an injury. Now keep him there because we need a KPD in development pipeline
2. Reid needs to keep doing what he is doing take the game and experiment. I do want to see him hone in on his defender abilities one on one and intercept marking.

 

[Ishmael_]

Pyke is no fool, he knows the writing is on the wall and will be seeking a new coach pretty quickly.
It's not a secret at the club that there is a lack of desire to play under Simmo.
Great coach at his best and could certainly go elsewhere with success, but time is up here.

And no this isn't based on today at all.

Can you elaborate on this at all? Is it personality clashes, favouritism, fundamental disagreements on strategy/tactics etc, or just sick of him after all these years?

 

[garlic munchers]

I'm guessing you never saw Malthouse when he was at Carlton, I gather?

You mean the 44% winning Malthouse that was sacked 4 games into 2015 after winning 7 games and finishing 13th the year before.

Carlton list was on the down when Malthouse took over but the 2015 list had young Cripps, Curnow and McKay.

Carlton/Malthouse flirtation makes Simmo look kissed on the d##k.

 

[bzparkes]

You mean the 44% winning Malthouse that was sacked 4 games into 2015 after winning 7 games and finishing 13th the year before.

Carlton list was on the down when Malthouse took over but the 2015 list had young Cripps, Curnow and McKay.

Carlton/Malthouse flirtation makes Simmo look kissed on the d##k.

Not really.

Malthouse severely overrated the list, whilst pretty much only taking the gig to end up with the record for most games coached.

Game has definitely gone well past him.

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

I am not sure what the focus of the training was over summer but it does not appear as “disposal composure” was part of it.

80% of the kicking last night fit into two categories;

1. “No look blast forward”. Was just so sad to witness how quickly the players lost all confidence and basically just wanted the ball to exit their area and become someone else’s problem.

2. “Easy 20m sideways layoff “. Disposal efficiency looks great after the game but in the meantime the opposition have set a 2024 perfect zone for the next bloke to contend with. This kick is less efficient in the end than the “no look blast forward”.

The other glaring item (particularly in the 2nd half) was fitness. Consistently outnumbered around the ball and then when the ball was released consistently outnumbered in the next area. A significant level of slow jogs happening in transition. Zero dynamic running.

I noticed that too and that is one of the most depressing things. One of the things that is mostly within our control is our fitness levels. There are other things you can't control or rectify in a shortish timeframe if they go wrong, i.e. injuries and talent on your list/getting best use of your draft picks, but fitness is one that you are mostly in control of and we are clearly still well below AFL fitness standards. But the club and the fanbois won't want to talk about that. All they ever want to focus on is what is not in our control. And when you see that they have neglected fitness (again) you wonder what other things and how many other things are they neglecting or doing a standard well below AFL level that are not as easily observable as fitness.

Flynn was worth a punt at the low price we paid for him. But it was a long shot that at 26 years old and with all the built up scar tissue that his body would stand up to the rigours of AFL footy in way that it has completely failed to for the last 8 years. We need to come up with a new plan for the ruck position over the next 3 - 4 years, especially if Williams is not going to be the Number 1 ruckman.

 

[Astro7]

I rewatched the first half and given all the ins+outs, swings and roundabouts, it wasn't too bad for a scratchie! There's no point in reading too much into the 2nd half for obvious reasons.
The coach is experimenting with different procedures, players in different positions etc.

Need to go way easy on Harley, this time next year he will be a different beast.
Ginbey has improved his footy braun, needs some work on the footy brain.
He will improve exponentially, as will many through the season.
Be different with our best 22 on field, the Wafl working and depth at hand.
No big expectations for 2024, a few more wins, no huge blow outs, lose by less, growth in key areas...pick up more handy draft picks. (disclaimer-depending on seniors and injuries)

For the major melters - Collingwood looked elite through the corridor with their spread and run,
and they lost by 44 points to the Roos - would you read much into that?

 

[Shuestar13]

Conveniently ignoring that Fremantle substituted players out at half time and rotated their side more, whereas we kept the same side for the first four quarters. But yes fitness has been neglected again, mmm hmm

 

[garlic munchers]

Not really.

Malthouse severely overrated the list, whilst pretty much only taking the gig to end up with the record for most games coached.

Game has definitely gone well past him.

You mean like the game has gone past Simmo?

 

[Eastcoasteagle]

Did Erasmus only play last 1/4 for them?

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

Conveniently ignoring that Fremantle substituted players out at half time and rotated their side more, whereas we kept the same side for the first four quarters. But yes fitness has been neglected again, mmm hmm

For some posters there is always an excuse, it is all an aberration, it is all down to external circumstances, everything is great and if it isn't it will all do a complete 180 next week.

You are predicting in another post that we won't play finals again until 2027 (Are you Nostradamus that you can predict things out to 2027?), but then when people discuss what the problems are and why we are down the bottom you get all s**** and want to argue that everything is fine. Make up your mind, pick one position and try to stick to it.

 

[bzparkes]

You mean like the game has gone past Simmo?

I mean, has it?

2 years with the team destroyed by injury had made it incredibly difficult to assess whether that's true or not. This year is make or break for him, as he's repeatedly said they're looking to implement a new style that's competitive with how the game is currently played.

Old coaches, like Malthouse, Sheedy, Pagan, etc had their way and were unable to change with the times.

We'll see if Simmo can walk the walk this year but people melting over a preseason game, where we've historically performed poorly, are a bit pathetic really.

 

[Ghossein]

Conveniently ignoring that Fremantle substituted players out at half time and rotated their side more, whereas we kept the same side for the first four quarters. But yes fitness has been neglected again, mmm hmm

no logic

only melts

 

[bzparkes]

For some posters there is always an excuse, it is all an aberration, it is all down to external circumstances, everything is great and if it isn't it will all do a complete 180 next week.

You are predicting in another post that we won't play finals again until 2027 (Are you Nostradamus that you can predict things out to 2027?), but then when people discuss what the problems are and why we are down the bottom you get all s**** and want to argue that everything is fine. Make up your mind, pick one position and try to stick to it.

Do you understand how rotations work, and that you can't just bring in over a quarter of a side completely fresh after half time in the regular season?

It's a preseason game, that each club tries to get something different out of.

For Freo, it's to chalk up meaningless wins to get their supporters pumped for the failure of the regular season.

 

[ToastieBoy18]

Disappointing-

Thought experience players like Cole, witherden and duggan had horrible games. I'll accept the justification of injuries to mcgovern/bazzo/h.edwards for lack of structure but in particular cole/witherden playing loose on emmet/Frederick was horrendous early in the first half.
Simmo, don't put reid/ginbey in tagging positions there kids just let them find there own way. Yeo and fyfe have always gone well head to head why throw reid under the bus like that. Ginbey entire 2023 year spent tackling and tagging opposition's best mid and you tried to do the same thing with reid last night let these kids flourish. Tagging role is for role players like connor west (shouldn't of been delisted) not top 10 draft picks we've seen the development of daicos/sheezel why not follow suit.
Injuries, culley, h.edwards and maybe 1 or 2 soft tissue injuries is fine but what the actual * are these groin and hamstring strains?? Too much gym? s**t surface? Sort it out pyke looks like nisbitt has left a legacy in that department.
Fringe players- Gaff, j.williams, petrucelle really aren't doing themselves any favours


Positives-

I liked the energy, attack and aggression around the contest unfortunately fitness fell apart and freo were able to get on top.
Fitness could be better but the disposal efficiency isn't great. It doesn't matter how fit a player is if there are bulk turnover players are going to get gassed pretty quickly.
Development of long, hough and maric is pleasing.i think l.edwards can be ok but his skills under fatigue need addressing. Depth players like Waterman and jameison although not blessed with a heap of talent play with a lot of heart in unflattering positions

Moving forward-
Just give reid one position (back flank) and let him get comfortable it would be hard enough with the pressure he's on to play well than to move him around to 3 positions.
Skill errors need improving by foot immediately or wce be chasing ass all year.
Keep attacking quickly up the middle of the ground I liked that.
Hopefully the injuries can get better (mcgovern, j.jones, bazzo, brockman, flynn) and we get some continuity. The spine of our team is reasonably good still but we're going to have to really play smart and tighten up our disposals to avoid the bottom 3.

Probably a bit behind in our rebuild than I thought/hoped will need to grind out another solid year and address the draft/FA very hard next year again

Harley was not tagging anyone? There is a difference between learning to be accountable at stoppages and tagging a player.

 

[nameless]

Can you elaborate on this at all? Is it personality clashes, favouritism, fundamental disagreements on strategy/tactics etc, or just sick of him after all these years?

Note this is partially conjecture, partially from people close to the club.

Not specifics but ultimately it's a lack of respect and Simmo being overly controlling.

When Simmo was in the US there was a better vibe at the club, more comfortable and enjoyment.

There is also confusion and lack of buy-in with the gameplan.

I think it also falls on the players who played in 2018, a lot know they won't get back there again and are doing the minimum in terms of rehab, getting paid and going home.

 

[Astro7]

For Freo, it's to chalk up meaningless wins to get their supporters pumped for the failure of the regular season.

 

[WCE_phil]

The issue was even in the first half freo were dominant through the midfield particularly after the first quarter. I just don't see how the team can run out games and compete against almost all midfields.

We might get some lucky wins but with our injury list where it is, lack of developed star power and our best players other than Allen ageing it's hard to see more than 4-6 wins imo. The fixture looks a little easier in the second half of the year but we could be 1-9 to start the year.

 

[Barrybran]

The issue was even in the first half freo were dominant through the midfield particularly after the first quarter. I just don't see how the team can run out games and compete against almost all midfields.

We might get some lucky wins but with our injury list where it is, lack of developed star power and our best players other than Allen ageing it's hard to see more than 4-6 wins imo. The fixture looks a little easier in the second half of the year but we could be 1-9 to start the year.

What did you make of our ball movement?

 

[stallon]

Gee there is some huge over-reactions here, who cares if we lost? or if we didnt dominate stoppages? Did anybody actually expect us to fix that all in 1 pre-season when there are no new senior guys in there? Freo with Fyfe in there are actually decent at stoppages, we were always gonna look bad in there especially after Flynn goes down.
Then when Freo have all the fresh players at half time clearly we are going to look slow.
Remember we played undermanned, with a bunch of first gamers, vs a team thats trying to get into finals

Save your melts for the season proper, this is just a practice game, a broadcasted training session

 

[CursoryMercenary]

The game has gone past Simmo about 3 seasons ago at the end of 2020 he still thought the season next we could still play finals. He done nothing to regenerate the game plan after 2018 and the other clubs came and passed us by.

 

[Ishmael_]

Note this is partially conjecture, partially from people close to the club.

Not specifics but ultimately it's a lack of respect and Simmo being overly controlling.

When Simmo was in the US there was a better vibe at the club, more comfortable and enjoyment.

There is also confusion and lack of buy-in with the gameplan.

I think it also falls on the players who played in 2018, a lot know they won't get back there again and are doing the minimum in terms of rehab, getting paid and going home.

Cheers, that's interesting and I think a common problem when you have established leaders trying to turn something around - especially when they are under pressure.

They dig in, micromanage, refuse to listen and wear themselves and the organisation out. In footy alone Lyon, Clarkson and probably Hardwick all seem to fit that mould.

That last paragraph is inexcusable though. It's a natural reaction from the players but that's why you have to nip it in the bud as soon as it arises. Playing them regardless of diligence is giving that attitude tacit approval.

 

[bombard]

What were the offers for our 2024 first round pick.

I didn’t hear that there were any. We supposedly offered the pick to Adelaide for Curtin and they refused.

Are you talking about our 2023 first round pick ie Harley?

I thought Harley showed a fair bit last night. He’s certainly not afraid to tackle and get his hands dirty.
He needs time to develop his game at the higher level.

As for offers for the 2023 first pick there were hardly any “head turners” or ones that “couldn’t be refused”.

No I meant the first rounder this year, which we apparently put on the table without caveats or anything coming back for a crack at Curtin.

I've no doubt Curtin is a gun, but there's every chance we have pick one or two here. Probable, even.

 

[random260]

It doesn't matter if the games got passed simmo.

He's not here to create a game plan he's here to develop the young players and hand over.

Sort of like Paul Roos in Melbourne and Kevin sheedy gws

 

[stallon]

It doesn't matter if the games got passed simmo.

He's not here to create a game plan he's here to develop the young players and hand over.

Sort of like Paul Roos in Melbourne and Kevin sheedy gws

Yep this is what I expect the plan is. It would be hard to attract a good coach to a club thats still got at least 2-3 years of rebuilding to go, more than likely theyd get the sack for not getting results within 2 years, then never get another coaching gig again.
Simmo can take the heat for a couple more years then when the club is ready to start contending get some hotshot assistant coach from one of the top teams