Training Preseason Training Thread - 2024/25

[PremiershipNo4]

Long's outrageous bending banana hands Eagles flying start

Noah Long curls through an insane checkside goal whilst under pressure on the boundary

www.afl.com.au

 

[squashface]

I guess Long is shit now because he isn’t the flavour of the month?

 

[Eastcoasteagle]

I would riot if they thought of doing that

I agree, Archer is the perfect Forward/ruck for me and wasted down back.

Archer as the second ruck hasn't been spoken about enough, he's 203cm and extremely mobile with great skills. He was really good there at Gippsland power, and when he goes forward he's a massive threat.

I think having the secondary role of ruck also keeps him in the game at all times.

 

[We_The_West]

Likened to Dion Presita and Caleb Serong.... plays like Tyson Stengle...

Get him in the midfield

 

[eaglevision]

I agree, Archer is the perfect Forward/ruck for me and wasted down back.

Archer as the second ruck hasn't been spoken about enough, he's 203cm and extremely mobile with great skills. He was really good there at Gippsland power, and when he goes forward he's a massive threat.

I think having the secondary role of ruck also keeps him in the game at all times.

I agree on a long term basis, the question is at what age/development are we ok to use him as a ruck? Using Oscar as a ruck too early was not a good idea. To look even further would there ever be a point when playing Archer and Jilliams as two ruck/FWDs would mean we don’t need to play a specialist ruck? Seems to be the direction the game is heading.

 

[Cuzz09]

I like Archer up forward, Shanahan too

At some point someone gotta try going back

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[Get_The_Gaff]

Yeah Cockatoo turned out to be a total spud

Nah that's like saying morabito was a spud .

Both highly talented but injuries ment they couldn't show their potential and when they did play they couldn't get out of 2nd gear .

Nathan freeman another one . After all those hamstring surgeries he went from explosive game breaking mid with average kicking to plodder with average kicking

 

[Happy Mastenator]

All this talk of Chaos Ball has me thinking.

The important thing is that we have a potent forward line. Allen, Waterman, Ryan, Cripps and Owies, all know how to hit the scoreboard.

That means that teams just can't zone off them and look to chop off any slightly errant kicks. If they do, they're likely to:

​

a) have Allen/Waterman/Ryan/3rd Tall/rest Ruck, put a knee in their back (or stand on their shoulders if Ryan), and at worst create a spillage; or​

​

b) have their opponent find space and kick goals.​

Unless they are elite level zoning players (McGovern/Sicily etc.,), you can get cooked against good forward lines if you just zone off. Now there is pressure on the forwards to hit the contest when the kick is misplaced, but i trust our forward bigs to be able to do that given their workrate.

Key is getting the ball in fast and deep.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

I like Archer up forward, Shanahan too

At some point someone gotta try going back

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I sort of wish that one of Allen/Waterman was coming out of contract year after next. That would give us the time to see if Archer/Shanahan was going to make it, and let them go for the right price if so.

As it is, with Allen out of contract this year, running the risk that if we let him go, even for a good return, Archer/Shanahan won't have enough exposed form to show if they will make it to a minimum 80/90% of what Allen is, and that's what you need if you're going to let someone as good as Allen go at his current age.

 

[DanWCE]

Are we seriously writing off Long already?

 

[The Gtrain]

Agree.

A bit has changed with our list since Schlong first made an impact in 2023.

Owies, Hutchinson, Kelly, Hewett, Davis, Brockman, Dewar could all find themselves starting in the forward line ahead of him.

Did anyone make an impact in 2023 (other than our opposition).

 

[Kegs15]

Interestingly he also said that they weren’t likely to be a team chasing a 15+ clearance differential each week as that wasn’t part of McQualter’s philosophy. Unsure if that’s a good or bad thing

He was Melbourne's midfield coach this past season and they were not good in clearances this year (from memory and doubt we rank greatly either). I mean it was a bit of a tumultuous year for Dees midfield so thats probbaly a factor too but that comment adds up a bit.

Have a friend working in a stats/analysis role at a Vic club and while everyone does it differently in the fine details he reckons the overall consensus on the data is clearance numbers alone being way less important than it would seem.

Focuses on things like clearances that lead to score chains (forget what that stat is specifically called in the data packages), clearances with X amount of effective disposals or metres gained before the next stoppage etc. Think those stats are all in the champion data packs clubs can buy but not released free online.

Makes sense in that if your stoppages are just set up to win the ball at all costs and dump kick it 30m forward to a contest you might win the clearance differential without it actually positively impacting the score. Could be more effective having a balancing act of 1) winning the ball/clearance, 2) having effective spread and outlet options or pathways through the contest to make the clearance meaningful and 3) having this sync with defensive fallbacks that limit the effectiveness of opposition clearances if they do win them, forcing them into the dump kicks to contests.

Would be happy if this all means his philosophy is we're happy to lose clearances say 29-33 but score 14 more points from those 29.

 

[mick06]

Have a friend working in a stats/analysis role at a Vic club and while everyone does it differently in the fine details he reckons the overall consensus on the data is clearance numbers alone being way less important than it would seem.

Focuses on things like clearances that lead to score chains (forget what that stat is specifically called in the data packages), clearances with X amount of effective disposals or metres gained before the next stoppage etc. Think those stats are all in the champion data packs clubs can buy but not released free online.

Makes sense in that if your stoppages are just set up to win the ball at all costs and dump kick it 30m forward to a contest you might win the clearance differential without it actually positively impacting the score. Could be more effective having a balancing act of 1) winning the ball/clearance, 2) having effective spread and outlet options or pathways through the contest to make the clearance meaningful and 3) having this sync with defensive fallbacks that limit the effectiveness of opposition clearances if they do win them, forcing them into the dump kicks to contests.

Would be happy if this all means his philosophy is we're happy to lose clearances say 29-33 but score 14 more points from those 29.

At a very basic level, our problem is that we have sucked at the contest. So we give up the clearance and if we don't intercept mark, if the ball hits the deck, we get beaten and give up an easy score.

Can see with the types of recruits, this is something being rectified, so losing the clearance will be less of an issue. Just need that elite rebounder to then cut them up on turnover

 

[Astro7]

Likened to Dion Presita and Caleb Serong.... plays like Tyson Stengle...

Get him in the midfield

Long could be anything, hasn't had a good run at it, and like some others hasn't reached his full potential yet.
Agree on the 'clearance' issue, what good are lots of clearance stats if we're not connecting effectively with the forward line. We're almost spoilt for choice now (and in the coming future) with mids and forwards to apply pressure and create turnovers to score. Just having Long, Ryan, Owies and Hewett zipping around the forward zone, will be a big improvement, creating a lot of pressure, let alone our other small forwards on offer, or our KPF's.

 

[Yeahnahmate]

I like Archer up forward, Shanahan too

At some point someone gotta try going back

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How about we try Bazzo & HEdwards back. Just thinking outside the square. I really think Reid has so much class with the way he moves and goal awareness that he’s a forward for mine. Can easy make a case for Shanahan being at either end at this stage, but I just selfishly love seeing those huge drop punts sail through and he is very accurate too

 

[Chris_6678]

Later on in that segment, Shuey talks about not doing any stoppage work this side of Christmas as they’ll get into that after the break

Interestingly he also said that they weren’t likely to be a team chasing a 15+ clearance differential each week as that wasn’t part of McQualter’s philosophy. Unsure if that’s a good or bad thing

I think we will see the mids being more accountable in the midfield.

 

[Yeahnahmate]

Re: Chaos ball.

I don’t think it’s going to be quite like that when it comes to fruition as a style. I see it more as a classic high pressure, ferocious team defence that when it forces errors / turnovers leads to a quick running counterattack the other way that catches opposition defences scrambling to cover back.

I know I’m crossing codes here but we are basically going to try to play like Leicester City when they upset the EPL! It’s a common theory when it’s assumed your side will get done by greater skilled sides overall (if you try to win the overall possession battle) and take more time playing keepy off and being patient in the buildup (skill permitting).

So instead you are uber tight with defensive structures + effort and pressure when you don’t have it - then when you do win the ball back you get numbers streaming forward alongside the ball carrier to cut them up quickly on the rebound creating free players inside 50. I think that’s more what Mini is going to be trying to do than anything else

 

[Eastcoasteagle]

I agree on a long term basis, the question is at what age/development are we ok to use him as a ruck? Using Oscar as a ruck too early was not a good idea. To look even further would there ever be a point when playing Archer and Jilliams as two ruck/FWDs would mean we don’t need to play a specialist ruck? Seems to be the direction the game is heading.

Yeah, I'd be building him up at training to do it and do stints at WAFL level but not yet AFL.

It's not a bad point RE those two as Ruck/Fwds. Both very mobile players.

 

[WCE_phil]

Yeah, I'd be building him up at training to do it and do stints at WAFL level but not yet AFL.

It's not a bad point RE those two as Ruck/Fwds. Both very mobile players.

With Zach Reid's injury history I am very worried about sending Archer into the ruck. Not at least until he is fully physically developed at 25-26. Archer is 206cm in boots ffs.

 

[Lia]

I guess Long is shit now because he isn’t the flavour of the month?

He has played every game he has been fit and available for since drafted. Now sure, that doesn't say as much when playing for us vs Brisbane for example, but there has been some baffling comments on him.

 

[Ghossein]

I guess Long is shit now because he isn’t the flavour of the month?

correct, he was injured during last season so he has been on the downward trend of the slope since then

he will eventually hit the bottom of the parabola and will start trending back up - I call it the Hewett effect

we can expect him to be praised as one of our best young players about 2-3 weeks prior to round 1

 

[Astro7]

Re: Chaos ball.

I don’t think it’s going to be quite like that when it comes to fruition as a style. I see it more as a classic high pressure, ferocious team defence that when it forces errors / turnovers leads to a quick running counterattack the other way that catches opposition defences scrambling to cover back.

I know I’m crossing codes here but we are basically going to try to play like Leicester City when they upset the EPL! It’s a common theory when it’s assumed your side will get done by greater skilled sides overall (if you try to win the overall possession battle) and take more time playing keepy off and being patient in the buildup (skill permitting).

So instead you are uber tight with defensive structures + effort and pressure when you don’t have it - then when you do win the ball back you get numbers streaming forward alongside the ball carrier to cut them up quickly on the rebound creating free players inside 50. I think that’s more what Mini is going to be trying to do than anything else

Yes chaos ball is a misleading term, games moved on since then, hybrid.

 

[Monocle]

I agree on a long term basis, the question is at what age/development are we ok to use him as a ruck? Using Oscar as a ruck too early was not a good idea. To look even further would there ever be a point when playing Archer and Jilliams as two ruck/FWDs would mean we don’t need to play a specialist ruck? Seems to be the direction the game is heading.

Agree and I hope we have learnt our lesson with playing Oscar way too early in the ruck and damaging his body.
Was such a stupid idea and made worse because we actually had Tom Hickey on the list to play that role.

Poor decision by all concerned that has had serious consequences for not only Oscars footballing future but also for our list balance.

Hopefully such foolhardy decision making is behind us as the new management team forge their own style.

 

[bzparkes]

Yes chaos ball is a misleading term, games moved on since then, hybrid.

Yeah, people keep thinking McQualter is going to make us play 'chaos' ball, when he's never actually indicated that to be the case.

Obviously he'll introduce elements of the style Richmond played but most teams are playing similar styles these days anyway and it needs to be a style that can eventually hold up in finals.

 

[BeornJ]

A penetrating kick, not an elite kick.

Fair, I should edit my comment to "Nice" not "Noice"