Primus - how is the gloss looking

[b0ydman]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

^^
Perhaps a case in point is the Chad Cornes saga. The main benefit of not playing Chad is that it has blatanly unmasked the limitations in Daniel Stewart's game, by giving him an extended run at AFL level, when his form warranted otherwise.

This highlights the need for us to still keep an active eye on recruiting young tall forward talent.

If Daniel Stewart is retained at the end of this year, it will very much be as a player ranked between 35-40 on our "most likely to succeed" list, and will probably be more for his chances of developing as a ruckman than as a tall forward prospect.

^^^ I dont expect Primus to come out and write his gameplan on a whiteboard for all to see
However at some point you'd like ot see a glimpse of it manifest on the field
All we have is 3 instances
Q4 vs Adelaide
1st half vs Carlton
2nd Half vs WCE

Both were quickly smothered by the opposition, apart from the Crows game, which was pure adrenalin.

 

[Seriously]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

okay
what will you give me for a significant change in the box if we lose vs Adelaide?

yeah i'll take your week (so no posting until the opening bounce of the following game) but i want 3 months from you

Are you_that_confident?

Coaches are meant to be 4-10 years right

This guy is only 1 season in

The probability of a new coach - who took over from a sacked coach, in a bankrupt club, going inside the first season, going inside a 2 week window-
has to be, what, 50million to one?

I'm only asking 12 to 1.

3 months if he goes
6 weeks is Laidley officially goes

Deal?

No to the significant change in the box, because I'm with you on that I would not be suprised at all if Laidley quit some time soon.

Ok then, agreed.

1 week for you if he doesn't quit
3 months for me if he does quit

So if Primus hasn't quit by Sunday night (24th July), then you have to stop posting until the following Sunday night (31st July)?

and if he has then I stop posting from Sunday night (24th July) to the 24th of october? Correct?

 

[PAFCsince1870]

Re: The Footy Show

This is what I got from last nights interview.

He made many excuses as to why we are bottom, playing kids ect. Also said that every team has bad years and basically that we just happen to be that team atm. That is just not a good enough excuse as far as I'm concerned, not for Port Adelaide anyway, maybe for some other shithouse club but not us.

The fact of the matter is we are shit. It's been explained in numerous other threads why. Its a very similar reason to Brisbane and the Crows - we just didn't have access to the cream of football talent from 2001-2005. The Judd's, Pendleburys, Hodge's, Franklin's et al - basically 80% of whom would be considered today's elite players were snapped up well before we had a pick. The clubs who picked up those players were in our position then, and it's fair to assume in 5-10 years the clubs at the top now will be back at the bottom of the ladder. It makes little difference how proud a club is, or how successful they were in a previous league which had no draft responsible for distributing the football talent to the clubs which needed it the most.

Compounding our palpable "shitness" is the current AFL mentality of rebuilding as quickly as possible which indeed means playing the kids and scrapping the majority of senior players who just aren't good enough and won't be there for our next premiership tilt. Sadly we are only in the beginning stages of any meaningful rebuild so we all need to accept there will still be plenty of further pain to come.

Primus is without a doubt the man to lead us forward. Gone is the arrogant, flippant demeanour of Choco and in is a humble, well spoken and passionate man who only seems to impress all those he comes across.

If guys like Trengove and Carlile do decide to stay at the club, I have no doubt that it will be in part to wanting to play under Primus and having 100% respect for the man and the way he goes about things.

 

[oporto]

Re: The Footy Show

The fact of the matter is we are shit. It's been explained in numerous other threads why. Its a very similar reason to Brisbane and the Crows - we just didn't have access to the cream of football talent from 2001-2005. The Judd's, Pendleburys, Hodge's, Franklin's et al - basically 80% of whom would be considered today's elite players were snapped up well before we had a pick. The clubs who picked up those players were in our position then, and it's fair to assume in 5-10 years the clubs at the top now will be back at the bottom of the ladder. It makes little difference how proud a club is, or how successful they were in a previous league which had no draft responsible for distributing the football talent to the clubs which needed it the most.

Compounding our palpable "shitness" is the current AFL mentality of rebuilding as quickly as possible which indeed means playing the kids and scrapping the majority of senior players who just aren't good enough and won't be there for our next premiership tilt. Sadly we are only in the beginning stages of any meaningful rebuild so we all need to accept there will still be plenty of further pain to come.

Primus is without a doubt the man to lead us forward. Gone is the arrogant, flippant demeanour of Choco and in is a humble, well spoken and passionate man who only seems to impress all those he comes across.

If guys like Trengove and Carlile do decide to stay at the club, I have no doubt that it will be in part to wanting to play under Primus and having 100% respect for the man and the way he goes about things.

You're basing the ability of a person to 1) coach and 2) lead an organization forward on his ability to present publicly? Snake oil salesmen are the best of charmers

I'll believe Primus is the best man to take us forward once he shows he's a capable match day tactician, has begun to develop the juniors, pulls the senior players he's polarized back into the fray and is rid of the handicap that is Peter Rohde

 

[PAFCsince1870]

Re: The Footy Show

You're basing the ability of a person to 1) coach and 2) lead an organization forward on his ability to present publicly? Snake oil salesmen are the best of charmers

I'll believe Primus is the best man to take us forward once he shows he's a capable match day tactician, has begun to develop the juniors, pulls the senior players he's polarized back into the fray and is rid of the handicap that is Peter Rohde

Even the best coaches would struggle with our list, particularly in a competition abound with the notion of a fast rebuild. Had Primus gone about this season any other way it would have only confounded us to further mediocrity in the long run.

Do you honestly believe a guy like Trengove would be more persuaded to sign by a guy like Primus, or an arrogant coach who would approach the situation with a mentality of if you don't want to be here then go?

As for the senior players he's apparently polarized, that made me laugh. Who exactly has he polarized that are an integral part of our future? So he doesn't rate Surjan, big deal. Not only is he far from irreplaceable he is really the only senior player I can think of that has been unfairly dealt with in the slightest.

 

[oporto]

Re: The Footy Show

Even the best coaches would struggle with our list, particularly in a competition abound with the notion of a fast rebuild. Had Primus gone about this season any other way it would have only confounded us to further mediocrity in the long run.

Do you honestly believe a guy like Trengove would be more persuaded to sign by a guy like Primus, or an arrogant coach who would approach the situation with a mentality of if you don't want to be here then go?

As for the senior players he's apparently polarized, that made me laugh. Who exactly has he polarized that are an integral part of our future? So he doesn't rate Surjan, big deal. Not only is he far from irreplaceable he is really the only senior player I can think of that has been unfairly dealt with in the slightest.

Bulldust. Good coaching outweighs the biggest of problems. Average players can be coached up to play above their own ability within a system, average coaches can't coach above their ability

Trengove's decision has nothing to do with the head coach or any coach for that matter. Any coach that isn't a premiership coach with mystique surrounding him that is. To believe otherwise is a mistake on your behalf

I'm glad it made you laugh. You're entire post reinforced to me just how pathetic the general consensus of Port Adelaide supporters have become in accepting failure and mediocrity all under the pretense of "it's ok, she'll be right cobber". Polarizing the senior players has a two pronged affect 1) it gives juniors an undeserving game and says hey, look how easy it is to be an AFL player and 2) disheartens the guys who should be teaching the juniors good habits. Don't blame others who see what's going on because you either 1) can't or 2) are dismissive of it

Primus sounds like Chris Connolly. It won't be long before every second press conference is about the journey

 

[TheFVK]

Re: The Footy Show

Bulldust. Good coaching outweighs the biggest of problems. Average players can be coached up to play above their own ability within a system, average coaches can't coach above their ability

Trengove's decision has nothing to do with the head coach or any coach for that matter. Any coach that isn't a premiership coach with mystique surrounding him that is. To believe otherwise is a mistake on your behalf

I'm glad it made you laugh. You're entire post reinforced to me just how pathetic the general consensus of Port Adelaide supporters have become in accepting failure and mediocrity all under the pretense of "it's ok, she'll be right cobber". Polarizing the senior players has a two pronged affect 1) it gives juniors an undeserving game and says hey, look how easy it is to be an AFL player and 2) disheartens the guys who should be teaching the juniors good habits. Don't blame others who see what's going on because you either 1) can't or 2) are dismissive of it

Primus sounds like Chris Connolly. It won't be long before every second press conference is about the journey

You are delusional. I challenge you to name a list with senior players as poor as ours are. Considering this our ladder position is no surprise, disappointing certainly but we are no underachiever.

Supporting Port Adelaide is not about accepting mediocrity and I don't see anyone here doing that, just being realistic about the strength of our list and the stage of development they are at. We'll have our time. How about growing some balls, taking the short term hit and putting the time into developing the talent we do have, rather than taking the easy option and calling for the coaches/players/waterboys' heads every time we have a loss.

Your take on supporting Port Adelaide seems to be lets sack our way into the finals. Maybe you would be better suited being a Richmond supporter.

 

[sog35]

Re: The Footy Show

Bulldust. Good coaching outweighs the biggest of problems. Average players can be coached up to play above their own ability within a system, average coaches can't coach above their ability

Trengove's decision has nothing to do with the head coach or any coach for that matter. Any coach that isn't a premiership coach with mystique surrounding him that is. To believe otherwise is a mistake on your behalf

I'm glad it made you laugh. You're entire post reinforced to me just how pathetic the general consensus of Port Adelaide supporters have become in accepting failure and mediocrity all under the pretense of "it's ok, she'll be right cobber". Polarizing the senior players has a two pronged affect 1) it gives juniors an undeserving game and says hey, look how easy it is to be an AFL player and 2) disheartens the guys who should be teaching the juniors good habits. Don't blame others who see what's going on because you either 1) can't or 2) are dismissive of it

Primus sounds like Chris Connolly. It won't be long before every second press conference is about the journey

The senior players led us to mediocrity.

 

[Macca19]

Re: The Footy Show

Bulldust. Good coaching outweighs the biggest of problems. Average players can be coached up to play above their own ability within a system, average coaches can't coach above their ability

Whilst I agree with this part of your post, you cant deny our playing list is drastically bad. Would a great coach get us playing better? I dont know. Pagan, one of the best coaches in modern times couldnt get Carlton off the bottom when they had a shit list & no money.

Its clear we have a terrible list, we are heavily under resourced and have a first year coach who seemingly significantly under prepared going into the year. I dont think a different coach would have us playing any better football. We may have a couple more wins but it wouldnt be anything significantly better imo.

 

[oporto]

Re: Matthew Primus on The Footy Show

You are delusional. I challenge you to name a list with senior players as poor as ours are. Considering this our ladder position is no surprise, disappointing certainly but we are no underachiever.

Supporting Port Adelaide is not about accepting mediocrity and I don't see anyone here doing that, just being realistic about the strength of our list and the stage of development they are at. We'll have our time. How about growing some balls, taking the short term hit and putting the time into developing the talent we do have, rather than taking the easy option and calling for the coaches/players/waterboys' heads every time we have a loss.

Your take on supporting Port Adelaide seems to be lets sack our way into the finals. Maybe you would be better suited being a Richmond supporter.

1) difference of opinion and I'd be better suited looking for another club? Typical myopic group think follower
2) the same list that was 10-12 and looking on the upward trend at the end of 2010. We're 2-14 through 18 rounds
3) Adelaide, Brisbane, Melbourne and Richmond are all around the same mark in list composition as Port Adelaide. Melbourne and Richmond have a few more upper echelon talents thanks to their perennially poor performances
4) How about growing some balls rather than accepting we will be good again. Nothing is achieved by resting on laurels as so many here are happy to trust in the process because of a few nice words and a pleasant tv disposition
5) try using the search engine. It'll offer you a world of perspective.

The senior players led us to mediocrity.

And along with the SANFL the "supporters" are the ones who have lead us to financial collapse yet people here have the gall to chastise Rucci for calling it as it is

 

[Macca19]

Re: Matthew Primus on The Footy Show

So apart from sacking Primus & making Surjan Captain, what do you legitmately think the club should do right now to turn it around?

You say that following Primus is group think yet most people on this board didnt want him coach, and most people on this board dont think hes doing a good job.

I dont see anyone here really accepting our situation with a 'she'll be right' attitude. Most on here have been very vocal of their disgust at our performances this year.

 

[oporto]

Re: The Footy Show

Whilst I agree with this part of your post, you cant deny our playing list is drastically bad. Would a great coach get us playing better? I dont know. Pagan, one of the best coaches in modern times couldnt get Carlton off the bottom when they had a shit list & no money.

Its clear we have a terrible list, we are heavily under resourced and have a first year coach who seemingly significantly under prepared going into the year. I dont think a different coach would have us playing any better football. We may have a couple more wins but it wouldnt be anything significantly better imo.

i don't disagree with that in theory. Better resourcing and better coaching would see a significant improvement in the assets we have. People continue to discount the plight of Port Adelaide on the players. I've no doubt the basket case off-field performance is affecting the on-field performance.

I'm neither concerned or troubled that Mark Haysman has left or been moved on either. I'm hopeful a more capable candidate will come on board rather than riding the coat tails of good work done by others and conning the populous into believing he's saved Port Adelaide from the evil shackles of the SANFL.

 

[oporto]

Re: Matthew Primus on The Footy Show

So apart from sacking Primus & making Surjan Captain, what do you legitmately think the club should do right now to turn it around?

You say that following Primus is group think yet most people on this board didnt want him coach, and most people on this board dont think hes doing a good job.

I dont see anyone here really accepting our situation with a 'she'll be right' attitude. Most on here have been very vocal of their disgust at our performances this year.

1) We can't sack Primus. It would be a PR nightmare. I don't think he's had a good 2011 but I am willing to see how 2012 develops and if he learns from this year's mistakes. He's here for the middle term. Not my preferred candidate but the best we can do is surround him with excellent assistants.

2) Cassisi should remain captain until he retires or until someone else proves worthy

3) Rid ourselves of Peter Rohde and find a capable FD GM with AFL experience, not school teaching experience. This has to be the number 1 priority. Good GM = sourcing capable assistants for Primus as well as making better list management decisions

4) There's a difference between thinking someone isn't doing a good job at present and thinking a situation will eventually turn because that's the way it is

 

[TheFVK]

Re: Matthew Primus on The Footy Show

1) difference of opinion and I'd be better suited looking for another club? Typical myopic group think follower
2) the same list that was 10-12 and looking on the upward trend at the end of 2010. We're 2-14 through 18 rounds
3) Adelaide, Brisbane, Melbourne and Richmond are all around the same mark in list composition as Port Adelaide. Melbourne and Richmond have a few more upper echelon talents thanks to their perennially poor performances
4) How about growing some balls rather than accepting we will be good again. Nothing is achieved by resting on laurels as so many here are happy to trust in the process because of a few nice words and a pleasant tv disposition
5) try using the search engine. It'll offer you a world of perspective.


And along with the SANFL the "supporters" are the ones who have lead us to financial collapse yet people here have the gall to chastise Rucci for calling it as it is

So to avoid "resting on laurels" we should sack a first year coach of a developing team with virtually no meritorious senior players halfway through the season? Lord help me if you had any actual say in decisions at the club.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Re: Matthew Primus on The Footy Show

Newman defends Primus.

link

Newman said he was a guest speaker at Port Adelaide function earlier this year and the new coach had addressed the audience before him.

"I learnt more about the recruiting process and football and how it works in the 10 minutes he spoke than I've ever known since I've been part of this game," Newman said. "He is a great speaker and a great motivator and I would say they're in good hands."

"I know the proof of the pudding is in the eating ... but he is a very, very capable person, I know that's got to translate, but when I was there I was very impressed with him and I can recommend that club if it's in his tutelage to any budding player to start out there."

Newman was defending Port Adelaide and Primus after host Garry Lyon said he knew of families of young footballers nominating for the draft who did not want their son to play for the Power.

link

 

[oporto]

Re: Matthew Primus on The Footy Show

So to avoid "resting on laurels" we should sack a first year coach of a developing team with virtually no meritorious senior players halfway through the season? Lord help me if you had any actual say in decisions at the club.

Try using the search function and learn to comprehend a simple idea

 

[PJ Power]

Re: Matthew Primus on The Footy Show

So apart from sacking Primus & making Surjan Captain, what do you legitmately think the club should do right now to turn it around?

As you posted above Macca, we can start by making sure that Primus does not go into 2012 as underprepared as he was for this year. Someone (or someones) grossly under-estimated what was required to get our group to be at least competitive in 2011. For all of the talk pre-season about meeting certain discipline standards and quality over quantity of training, we showed up for this year massively under-prepared for the main season - skill levels were very poor and have not shown any recovery since rd 1, strategies to cope with kick-outs, losing ruck hit-outs, outside midfield play, defending stoppages etc, etc have been non-existent. Some of that can be put down to a poor list, which I whole-heartedly agree with. We have the worst group of >25yos anyone could ask for. But some also has to do with an under-resourced coaching group that has not compensated for its lack of experience and lack of coaching ability, with hard work.

The first thing I expect from Primus when this season is over, is to be ferocious not just in his player recruiting and coaching reshuffles, but in his attention to player training and preparation.

 

[PAFCsince1870]

Re: Matthew Primus on The Footy Show

So to avoid "resting on laurels" we should sack a first year coach of a developing team with virtually no meritorious senior players halfway through the season? Lord help me if you had any actual say in decisions at the club.

You just have to accept there are delusional posters/supporters in general that think changing coach every 5 minutes and playing musical chairs with our best 22 every week will eventually see us turn it around but yet fail to see bigger picture, and more alarmingly fail to accept our current playing list for what it is.

 

[PAFCsince1870]

Re: Matthew Primus on The Footy Show

3) Adelaide, Brisbane, Melbourne and Richmond are all around the same mark in list composition as Port Adelaide. Melbourne and Richmond have a few more upper echelon talents thanks to their perennially poor performance.

Despite that this is wrong what point are you trying to make? Adelaide and Brisbane have what, two and one more wins for the year respectively? Even they have better senior players (Rutten, Johncock, Scott Thompson & JB, Black and Power). Their struggles are also list related, much like ours. Put this down to each teams success at the start of the decade.

To compare us to Melbourne is completely misguided. Not only are their senior players superior (Green, Sylvia and Jamar to name a few) they also have two #1 draft picks, a #2 as well as a swag of other high picks including 4 in the top 20 odd of the 2009 draft alone, but their list composition is similar ours? Right.

 

[oporto]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

You just have to accept there are delusional posters/supporters in general that think changing coach every 5 minutes and playing musical chairs with our best 22 every week will eventually see us turn it around but yet fail to see bigger picture, and more alarmingly fail to accept our current playing list for what it is.

Despite that this is wrong what point are you trying to make? Adelaide and Brisbane have what, two and one more wins for the year respectively? Even they have better senior players (Rutten, Johncock, Scott Thompson & JB, Black and Power). Their struggles are also list related, much like ours. Put this down to each teams success at the start of the decade.

To compare us to Melbourne is completely misguided. Not only are their senior players superior (Green, Sylvia and Jamar to name a few) they also have two #1 draft picks, a #2 as well as a swag of other high picks including 4 in the top 20 odd of the 2009 draft alone, but their list composition is similar ours? Right.

At some point you're going to read what I wrote not what you think I wrote. i welcome that moment but won't be waiting with baited breath

 

[S.Patrol.G]

Re: The Footy Show

You're basing the ability of a person to 1) coach and 2) lead an organization forward on his ability to present publicly? Snake oil salesmen are the best of charmers

I'll believe Primus is the best man to take us forward once he shows he's a capable match day tactician, has begun to develop the juniors, pulls the senior players he's polarized back into the fray and is rid of the handicap that is Peter Rohde

Have you considered that, just perhaps, these senior players Primus has "polarized" are in that position because either through words, action or inaction they've shown no interest or intent in following the path Primus is making?

 

[Portmanteau]

Re: The Footy Show

Have you considered that, just perhaps, these senior players Primus has "polarized" are in that position because either through words, action or inaction they've shown no interest or intent in following the path Primus is making?

Additionally, the senior players had unquestionably been on easy street under Chocolate's reign. That foundation has now been shaken a bit, and they may not have liked it. Well, I can't say that's been a bad thing...

 

[oporto]

Re: The Footy Show

Have you considered that, just perhaps, these senior players Primus has "polarized" are in that position because either through words, action or inaction they've shown no interest or intent in following the path Primus is making?

I did consider that then discounted it when Primus didn't adhere to any of his preseason claims of team rules, dropped for 2 bad games in a row. Couple that with senior players and coaches having emergency meetings to discuss "team selection" and you get a polarized senior group being treated as second class citizens in front of the kids

That's the problem. This cultural change within the player group is being handled as badly as you could handle it either by design or by a novice mistake. We'll end up with an entitled bunch of kids who think they're better than they are because they're getting a run in the AFL and a bunch of pissed off senior players instilling bad habits into the youth creating a clear divide between seniors and juniors

I've no problem with change. we need it. I've said I'm unhappy with the overall performance of 2011 but am hopeful 2012 provides better resources and better coaching to help Primus succeed

 

[S.Patrol.G]

Re: The Footy Show

I did consider that then discounted it when Primus didn't adhere to any of his preseason claims of team rules, dropped for 2 bad games in a row. Couple that with senior players and coaches having emergency meetings to discuss "team selection" and you get a polarized senior group being treated as second class citizens in front of the kids

That's the problem. This cultural change within the player group is being handled as badly as you could handle it either by design or by a novice mistake. We'll end up with an entitled bunch of kids who think they're better than they are because they're getting a run in the AFL and a bunch of pissed off senior players instilling bad habits into the youth creating a clear divide between seniors and juniors

I've no problem with change. we need it. I've said I'm unhappy with the overall performance of 2011 but am hopeful 2012 provides better resources and better coaching to help Primus succeed

Do you have any proof to back up the two statements I've highlighted? If you do, it'd be intersting to hear what you know. I've not been aware (not that I should be) of emergency meetings or proof that the "cultural change" is being handled badly. Are these just your opinions being stated as fact or have I missed some information?

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Re: The Footy Show

I did consider that then discounted it when Primus didn't adhere to any of his preseason claims of team rules, dropped for 2 bad games in a row. Couple that with senior players and coaches having emergency meetings to discuss "team selection" and you get a polarized senior group being treated as second class citizens in front of the kids

That's the problem. This cultural change within the player group is being handled as badly as you could handle it either by design or by a novice mistake. We'll end up with an entitled bunch of kids who think they're better than they are because they're getting a run in the AFL and a bunch of pissed off senior players instilling bad habits into the youth creating a clear divide between seniors and juniors

I've no problem with change. we need it. I've said I'm unhappy with the overall performance of 2011 but am hopeful 2012 provides better resources and better coaching to help Primus succeed

BS. The senior players who have performed like Brogan, Dom and Shulz have remained in the team (when fit) Those that haven't have been sent back to the SANFL.

Primus has made it clear that we cant afford to keep having the same senior players underperforming year after year.

The younger players have been given more leeway and rightly so. They arent the ones who have been underperforming for years. We need to find out if they are going to develop into consistent AFL players if given the opportunity and at the same time we need to find out if the senior players are willing to put in the hard yards to work their way back into the tea. They have all been given opportunities it is up to them to take them.