Primus - how is the gloss looking

[oporto]

Re: The Footy Show

BS. The senior players who have performed like Brogan, Dom and Shulz have remained in the team (when fit) Those that haven't have been sent back to the SANFL.

Primus has made it clear that we cant afford to keep having the same senior players underperforming year after year.

The younger players have been given more leeway and rightly so. They arent the ones who have been underperforming for years. We need to find out if they are going to develop into consistent AFL players if given the opportunity and at the same time we need to find out if the senior players are willing to put in the hard yards to work their way back into the tea. They have all been given opportunities it is up to them to take them.

I'm thankful that we have supporters who pay no attention to the words of the head coach then invent their own agenda and pretend it's the one that Primus said he would use.

1) the senior players haven't underperformed for years. Some have underperformed others have played well. There's been patches of all alike

2) if you believe the senior players have underperformed then that means you acknowledge the senior players are not crap and it's a combination of form or coaching that is the problem.

3) if it's a list management problem then the senior players haven't underperformed they're just not very good in he AFL. which is it?

4) kids does not = wins. Effective systems, good coaching, cutting edge processes with talent = wins. Primus is on record as saying the current state of the Port Adelaide list is similar to 1999 when Choco took over. In 1999 Port Adelaide went 12-10 and finished 7th after round 22.

5) There's a whole host of the non negotiables Primus reportedly presented in this thread here if you feel like contradicting yourself and the head coach

Enviable Tradition the sole goal of 2011 is to play the juniors and that's been put on record. It doesn't matter what happens to the rest of the club or the player list. It doesn't matter that a career spud like Leigh Brown can go on to establish a very good career at Collingwood because of good coaching and excellent systems/process

Yeah, it's just the senior's fault. everything since 2004 is all the senior's fault. Honestly

 

[Portology]

Re: The Footy Show

I did consider that then discounted it when Primus didn't adhere to any of his preseason claims of team rules

None of them ? He's mostly done what he's said he'd do with Chad TBH. Rules have to be guidelines tempered by common sense. It's not playstation footy. Availability of credible replacements. Setting a bar higher for senior players, other things being equal. If the law is an ass, well be a smart donkey then. Does it promote unity, let alone progress, if after 2 games we drop a kid for say, Ebo who then drops back out after 2 games ?

dropped for 2 bad games in a row. Couple that with senior players and coaches having emergency meetings to discuss "team selection" and you get a polarized senior group being treated as second class citizens in front of the kids

That's the problem. This cultural change within the player group is being handled as badly as you could handle it either by design or by a novice mistake. We'll end up with an entitled bunch of kids who think they're better than they are because they're getting a run in the AFL and a bunch of pissed off senior players instilling bad habits into the youth creating a clear divide between seniors and juniors

I've no problem with change. we need it. I've said I'm unhappy with the overall performance of 2011 but am hopeful 2012 provides better resources and better coaching to help Primus succeed

Just because change is disruptive doesn't automatically mean it is being handled badly. Other things being equal I agree it is best to take the pain all at once and move on, but several times in the last few years we've clearly frightened ourselves off of doing that, going right back to the draft and delist table post Choco's hey-day. But other things are not equal, like contract lengths, off field expense constraints and our risk profile for example.

We already have the entitled kids who haven't grown to their potential. It's most of the group called "senior players". I don't think its the real kids that call the emergency selection meetings.

I recall a game where Hitchy did a top "petulant Mots" impersonation. Sent to the Bay to work on Stuff, ditto Mots to North. OK. Banner & Pearce, dropped for the same core reason, to work on their defensive game, yet Pearce gets a quick recall because he's faster and less bad defensively than Banner. OK but we squeal at the injustice of it. Broady declines to such an extent that his defensive work isn't making up for his lack of speed and at the same time Cassisi is back up to fitness, hey presto, Mitch finally gets a go. Fair enough, probably late. Brogan playing through injury which he finally aggravates but could Lobbe have come in from injury any earlier? Probably not. Daniel Stewart gets 4-5 poor games, is saved by a few injuries to forwards, rucks and KPD in turn, then finally Chad steps in. Fair enough, probably late. Not every call right or even reasonable, but most were better than if we had used a rigid Sharia-law-and-no-modern-re-interpretations-will-be-allowed approach to selection.

I agree Primus needs more help around him in a heap of areas but I think you're misreading the dynamics of the people changes. Each individual is different, maybe there isn't enough hours in the day for a senior coach to work on every bl**dy player relationship Choco style. I think "self starter" is in the AFLPA job description of "professional footballer" Surjan is the one senior player I can see who may genuinely being burned in the process, and that's because we don't seem to have all the detail in front of us. Not a huge amount of sympathy for most of the other senior players on the "underperform" list.

 

[b0ydman]

Re: The Footy Show

^ & ^ etc
Portology thats a fair post, and I agree with much of - well, all of oporto as well

I just ask us to consider- in light of how okay he was once the nervousness of the opening minutes wore of on the footy show- ....Can, He, Coach?

I simply don't believe so

If you can't coach well because you are raw, fair enough. But don't let them turn up that unfit and at least try something during the game. If we're getting flogged and Pittard for all his promise keeps kicking it in to the opposition and having brain farts- send him up forward for a half, and so on


@Seriously, I'm gonna ask if I can close out our bet. I don't believe Primus is going to pull the pin between now and the game. So I'll go into exile now if that's all right with you.

No posting until LoLdown after the game- with the exception of one half time comment limited to 20 words

You cool with that?

 

[Portology]

Re: The Footy Show

Speaking of gloss, and superficial, here's this from Mark Robinson...

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/i-was-a-team-player-lloyd/story-fn5937w8-1226085457619?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+HeraldSunAfl+%28Herald+Sun+%7C+AFL%29

The next time, at halftime, when a footy team thinks it's too hard, that the game is unwinnable, that it's beyond their mental and physical capabilities, when fear and doubt and helplessness surges through thier minds, wouldn't it be a stroke of genius by a coach to have Cadel walk into the rooms?

Far better would be if he had had a good $%&*ing chat to the guys right at the start of the pre-season and then walked in at half time of a game when the players weren't expecting it.

 

[FishingRick04]

Re: The Footy Show

Gen Y are pampered way to much lately

They need a pinch of salt, spoon of cement etc etc

I always loved Blight as a coach for his hardness, his walking away before the game finished, his tough discipline, his public bashing of players.

Imagine all this now lol

We need to hug and rub these poor fella's these days as it's emotionally demanding this game of footy.

 

[Poached_Egg]

Re: The Footy Show

Primus will always have a 100% winning record over Nil Craig.

 

[Seriously]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

^ & ^ etc
Portology thats a fair post, and I agree with much of - well, all of oporto as well

I just ask us to consider- in light of how okay he was once the nervousness of the opening minutes wore of on the footy show- ....Can, He, Coach?

I simply don't believe so

If you can't coach well because you are raw, fair enough. But don't let them turn up that unfit and at least try something during the game. If we're getting flogged and Pittard for all his promise keeps kicking it in to the opposition and having brain farts- send him up forward for a half, and so on


@Seriously, I'm gonna ask if I can close out our bet. I don't believe Primus is going to pull the pin between now and the game. So I'll go into exile now if that's all right with you.

No posting until LoLdown after the game- with the exception of one half time comment limited to 20 words

You cool with that?

Yeah thats fine, I wont be posting on here for a week from wednesday anyway

 

[Portology]

Re: The Footy Show

Primus will always have a 100% winning record over Nil Craig.

D_One-worthy stat there. Well done.

 

[Jonts]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

@FishingRick04
Its not a gen Y's fault that Port are doing bad

there are way too many successful Gen Y's you can't honestly think that its a generations fault?

(I am a Gen Y)

 

[FishingRick04]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

@FishingRick04
Its not a gen Y's fault that Port are doing bad

there are way too many successful Gen Y's you can't honestly think that its a generations fault?

(I am a Gen Y)

No you are right but I'm just saying Gen Y is a soft generation, obviosuly not everyone

 

[Hellgood]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

I had a quick chat with Adam Kingsley who mentioned that there is a big difference in the players willingness to learn and implement strategies when comparing Port and us. He didn't say that Port were unprofessional, just that our guys were exceptional. He also mentioned that the Tommy Gun is very close to coming into this side, and that he belives he is a massive chance this week - injury pending. Lynch is also a chance.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21746515&postcount=26

Interesting to find this on the Saint's board. Does it mean anything? Was Kingsley just being diplomatic by not putting us down? The Saints are very much a "playing a role for the team" kind of club, but in any case does it highlight how far we have to go to be taken seriously?

 

[El_Scorcho]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

I've heard lots of similar quotes. One from Russell Ebert which, when he was asked something along the lines of "why don't you do some skills coaching with the players?" he responded "we've tried to help them, they don't bloody listen".

It's a culture issue. One that I hope Matty is trying to iron out. We'll never really be able to tell because we're not involved in those training sessions.

 

[bomberclifford]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

I've heard lots of similar quotes. One from Russell Ebert which, when he was asked something along the lines of "why don't you do some skills coaching with the players?" he responded "we've tried to help them, they don't bloody listen".

It's a culture issue. One that I hope Matty is trying to iron out. We'll never really be able to tell because we're not involved in those training sessions.

No need for hope.

When you consider the most contentious selection issues this year, I think it's pretty damn obvious where the problems were seen to lay.

 

[Waspy79]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

No need for hope.

When you consider the most contentious selection issues this year, I think it's pretty damn obvious where the problems were seen to lay.

Daniel Motlop is definitely one of them.

Jacob Surjan?
Chad Cornes?
Danyle Pearce?

 

[Portology]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Would have thought Kane was the single most contentious selection issue of the year since he collects so much possession just playing his own way, and has so much endurance, and yet...

The other guys mentioned all have had in turn injury, form, and/or some off field distraction so while debatable their non selections could be more easily justified.

Work In Progress.

 

[Jonts]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

No you are right but I'm just saying Gen Y is a soft generation, obviosuly not everyone

and Gen x is softer than the baby boomers and the baby boomers were softer than the pre WW2 babies ect ect

 

[powerful girl]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

I've heard lots of similar quotes. One from Russell Ebert which, when he was asked something along the lines of "why don't you do some skills coaching with the players?" he responded "we've tried to help them, they don't bloody listen".

It's a culture issue. One that I hope Matty is trying to iron out. We'll never really be able to tell because we're not involved in those training sessions.

Just on this issue I had the opportunity to spend some time with the great man a few weeks back and he was not a happy camper to say the least in regard to player attitude. He alluded to the fact that they were lazy and disinterested and couldn't get out of their own way to save themselves, he was very cranky, It was the week after the West Coast game and it could have been because Brett didn't play and we got creamed by LeCras, but he was quite vocal about some of the attitude issues within the playing group.

I think his words were something along the lines of........"this club does so much for these players, if they wanted someone to wipe their bums for them we would find someone to do it for them, and all we ask in return is that they put in the effort and do the work required of them and they can't even do that at training or on the field!"

Seems to me that cultural change is the key and without it we have no chance of ever being anything, but it does take time to get rid of the cancerous attitudes, and I am sure Matty is working on it but it won't happen over night.

Gen Y's can't be blamed as the issue all clubs are full of them.

 

[FishingRick04]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Well then the club needs to stop pampering them

 

[Macca19]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Being on an AFL list should be seen as a priviledge, not some sort of right. Hopefully there are some hard calls at the end of the year to make some of these underachieving primadonnas up a bit. So many very good footballers who could make a crack at AFL dont get the opportunity.

 

[Natman]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

and Gen x is softer than the baby boomers and the baby boomers were softer than the pre WW2 babies ect ect

No, not softer, but just motivated in different ways, i.e waiting for inheritance, no harsh words or hard work, driven by different things and antidisestablishmentarism - yeah, softer I suppose

Let's hope that Matty understands them more than what Choco did - and makes a more pointed effort to drive home the required effort to achieve his standards.

 

[Portmanteau]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Being on an AFL list should be seen as a priviledge, not some sort of right. Hopefully there are some hard calls at the end of the year to make some of these underachieving primadonnas up a bit. So many very good footballers who could make a crack at AFL dont get the opportunity.

When we've cut the careers short of fairly hard working players such as Nick Lower and Jonathon Giles, guys who have clawed their way back to an AFL career, and yet extended the careers of arguably equally or less talented players such as Scott Harding and Jason Davenport... the mind boggles. Choco seem to have these guys on easy street for a long time.

 

[finbarr]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

No, not softer, but just motivated in different ways, i.e waiting for inheritance, no harsh words or hard work, driven by different things and antidisestablishmentarism - yeah, softer I suppose

Let's hope that Matty understands them more than what Choco did - and makes a more pointed effort to drive home the required effort to achieve his standards.

When i was growing up league footballers tended to come from all walks of life. Some worked as garbo's, some were plumbers, some were wharfies, some (one) nuclear-physicists. They also attended a wide variety of schools as teenagers.

These days it almost seems like every kid drafted went to a prestigious school or at least a private school. I was almost shocked when i heard an interview earlier in the season with a young Crows player (who's name escapes me atm) who grew up and went to school at Para Hills.

The point is most of these kids have probably been getting things pretty easy all their lives. Very few if any would have gone wanting and had easy access to most of life's luxurys since before they could walk. They just expect things to fall into place. It's the way they're brought up. I don't think it's so much a generational thing (although that plays its part), but more the socio-economic demographic from which most kids are drafted to AFL clubs these days as opposed to yesteryear.

 

[Natman]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

When i was growing up league footballers tended to come from all walks of life. Some worked as garbo's, some were plumbers, some were wharfies, some (one) nuclear-physicists. They also attended a wide variety of schools as teenagers.

These days it almost seems like every kid drafted went to a prestigious school or at least a private school. I was almost shocked when i heard an interview earlier in the season with a young Crows player (who's name escapes me atm) who grew up and went to school at Para Hills.

The point is most of these kids have probably been getting things pretty easy all their lives. Very few if any would have gone wanting and had easy access to most of life's luxurys since before they could walk. They just expect things to fall into place. It's the way they're brought up. I don't think it's so much a generational thing (although that plays its part), but more the socio-economic demographic from which most kids are drafted to AFL clubs these days as opposed to yesteryear.

This is where there is a clash with our historical "creed, culture and tradition" to some extent. We haven't learnt to deal it to the 'new' breed of players (which consists of mainly non-PAFC bred and even SA-bred players) IMO and coupled with the current poor perception and lack of respect for our club makes it difficult to get the players to do the equivalent of "crashing through walls" for the team and themselves as is apparent at clubs like Collingwood and Geelong at the moment.

This where I think Matty is trying to take us, whereas Choco just seemed to be steering in the same old path and got results based on his pure coaching knowledge and experience in the end.

It needs time and will be a long and painful road. That is why I get annoyed at a number of posters who insist on instant success and selecting the 'best' teams to win the next and each game - it just won't happen that way.

 

[tribey]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

When i was growing up league footballers tended to come from all walks of life. Some worked as garbo's, some were plumbers, some were wharfies, some (one) nuclear-physicists. They also attended a wide variety of schools as teenagers.

These days it almost seems like every kid drafted went to a prestigious school or at least a private school. I was almost shocked when i heard an interview earlier in the season with a young Crows player (who's name escapes me atm) who grew up and went to school at Para Hills.

The point is most of these kids have probably been getting things pretty easy all their lives. Very few if any would have gone wanting and had easy access to most of life's luxurys since before they could walk. They just expect things to fall into place. It's the way they're brought up. I don't think it's so much a generational thing (although that plays its part), but more the socio-economic demographic from which most kids are drafted to AFL clubs these days as opposed to yesteryear.

If only Boxcar Butcher would quit checking on his bindle while lining up for goal...

 

[finbarr]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

If only Boxcar Butcher would quit checking on his bindle while lining up for goal...

................