Primus - how is the gloss looking

[klem22]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

PORT Adelaide coach Matthew Primus savaged his players after the record 165-point defeat to Hawthorn. Primus has questioned their attitude and commitment and is demanding answers at a special meeting tomorrow.


In the news!
Does he need to take a fair bit of the blame, this club seems to lack direction and intelligence Matt!
That's your responsibility, blaming others show you don't take the necessary responsibility to develop what you are looking for and it has been 12 months since you have taken over.
The lack of improvement is showing something about yourself and the other canaries in the box.
We have big problems here

 

[Portology]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

I remember the discussion around Hardwick's 'plan' for Richmond which involved getting to being able to play zones, in a sort of 2-3 year timeframe, as players mature both body and mind. I could have this wrong and I don't recall where I read it and I might even recall some of it wrong (!) but it went something like this:

year 1 learn to play the basic contested footy. watch those stats. you lose games where you 'win the contested footy' mostly because you're struggling to dispose effectively.

year 2, learn to play some of the uncontested attacking moves, even if you get caught out and look like a dill at times. disposal improves. improving skills a focus.

year 3, put more of it together. brain and body ready for 'zoning systems'.

Point is not the detail so much as the deliberate staging of it. It's not exactly an infamous 5 year plan is it.

Really interesting to read TonyBrech reckon Matty wants them to play zones right away and damn the consequences. Would fit with what most people would imagine is Matty's persona - uncompromising, utterly professional, inflexible even. No surprise there is confusion and some resentment from senior players used to more 'personal' treatment.

If Laidley is suggesting tactical match day moves and Matty is mostly ignoring them, well hopefully he's taking some note of how Laidley comes up with the tactical ideas and learns something from those processes.

The upside, remembering Matty is an L plate coach, is Matty + good staff + time = Malthouse type structures and discipline, minus the incomprehensible quotes.

The downside, remembering Matty is an L plate coach, is Matty + good staff + time = Ebert type great player just too inflexible to get the best out of a varied group.

 

[Peck]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Our players were often in really bad positions yesterday. There were a huge number of times that we had extra numbers around the ball while Hawthorn had 3 on 1s in our attacking area.

We were also stormed on the rebound, and Hawthorn's spread was about 100x better than ours, not to mention our players refusal to cover their men.

I do not know what this was all down to, but we were not nearly as well drilled as the Hawks were. That and poor disposal (and some horrifically one sided umpiring) resulted in the massive loss.

I still give Primus until next year, and perhaps I will shift the goal posts again if need be. But I think we need to give the bloke some more time to be able to get our players to a level as organised as a club like Collingwood. The main thing I want to see from him is playing the right players, and saying the right things. I'd like to have seen our players stay forward when they needed to, but I strongly doubt that is something Matty could fix halfway through a season.

 

[Black 18]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

I remember the discussion around Hardwick's 'plan' for Richmond which involved getting to being able to play zones, in a sort of 2-3 year timeframe

Nah. Timeframes only come into the picture when you have a side that's talented enough to be good no matter what plan you choose to use.

Time in itself doesn't make players capable of hitting targets, picking the right option, knowing when to go & when to stay, being hard enough to hit tackles that stick, and hurt. If we continue to think "time" is whats required we will never impove.

We have a bunch of guys that are simply not AFL standard. They continiue to show this yet somehow we always end up back at the "in time" position.

Kane, Westhoff, Chaplin, Carlile are just a few examples of guys that prove the theory that time doesn't mend all wounds, or in our case, fix unfixable parts of their "ways".

We need to draft guys that haven't any glaring weakness. We need to give them a couple of years and if they do show areas of concern stop thinking we have magical people who can turn water in to wine. If they still struggle to kick, or mark, or avoid physical contests, or play 1 good game every 4/5, or lack dedication, or cant run, or won't shepherd etc. Then delist and try others until you have a list you can work with.

Too many coaches thinking they can turn tricks atm. It's been a common trait for a while now.

 

[Francis Soyer]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

We had 9 players play on the weekend that played in the 2007 GF. I don't care how bad your coach is and what game plans you have or don't have it doesn't help the coach or younger players when your so called best are your worst. Judge the guy when he gets rid of the dead wood rotting on the list. These players are selfish individuals who are only worried about themselves and continuously make excuses for their substandard performances ever since the 2007 GF. Supporters here make frequent excuses for there favourites and refuse to blame them for there poor efforts week in week out. At the end of the day these players are average players that could not be sold on ebay. Wait for the 12-14 changes that will happen next year and if there is no improvement on the field with these changes and increased spending in the football department then start questioning Primus. Until then this season has to be treated as a transition into a new era. Roo is on the money http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...rimus-some-slack/story-fn83zgw9-1226111421079

 

[TonyBecht]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

We had 9 players play on the weekend that played in the 2007 GF. I don't care how bad your coach is and what game plans you have or don't have it doesn't help the coach or younger players when your so called best are your worst. Judge the guy when he gets rid of the dead wood rotting on the list. These players are selfish individuals who are only worried about themselves and continuously make excuses for their substandard performances ever since the 2007 GF. Supporters here make frequent excuses for there favourites and refuse to blame them for there poor efforts week in week out. At the end of the day these players are average players that could not be sold on ebay. Wait for the 12-14 changes that will happen next year and if there is no improvement on the field with these changes and increased spending in the football department then start questioning Primus. Until then this season has to be treated as a transition into a new era. Roo is on the money http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...rimus-some-slack/story-fn83zgw9-1226111421079

So many good points in there.
(Are you into Tennis Francis or is your name a homage to Stripes?)
Its interesting isn't it. We each see something in a player that we like. Whether its a dogged determination, track skills, that we see something of ourselves. But yes, for whatever reason we tend to over-rate some players and under-rate others- often for internal emotional reasons.
So threads discussing specific players don't usually go far- unless there is universal agreeance.

Those 9 players. Hmm. Yes. Real problem.

Can I name a player to put those into context. Matthew Westhoff. Being frank, he's probably not going to force his way back into an AFL team, either PAFC or be re-drafted at the end of the season. We have his elder brother as a biological template, and clearly there are physical limitations as to how their bodies can develop. I think it is fair to say we know his upside and have known for a full 2 seasons now.

On this basis, has anyone considered why he held the club to ransom by being re-listed? At what point does a love for the club, or individual self respect enter into this? At what point did he know that he never was going to cut it, and he just wanted to turn up to take a pay-check? List clogger, dollar taker, grub, traitor...all sorts of abuses could be levelled incorporating reminiscing quotes and anecdotes from yesteryear- Bob Quinn, Fos Williams and others- that they would eyeball the man (for many of our heroes of the past were only 22, 23, 25yrs old when we look at the log-books and they were achieving greatness- these are no longer boys we should not forget). We could be extremely unflattering if we wanted about him. Suffice to say, would the club of yesteryear have eyeballed such a player and demanded he walk, contract be buggered to blazes?

So lets move on from him, and consider those still here from the Grand Final in 2007 and their actual contributions since then?

Well that was quick

So here we have today, a special day where lines are no longer drawn but a coach is sucking in/ has sucked in his breath and is put it to some players.

Let us see where that takes us.

The club needs honesty. I believe MP has finally accepted the need to be honest with himself. Whether that transpires into a Thursday night- resignation I don't know.

All I do know, is that if MP has the character to go through with what he says he will do, we will be better for it

And what is character? Is is the ability to carry through those things you say you will do after the heat of the moment has passed.

The PAFC will not be a superpower like we hoped it may have become. Perhaps one day it will. But I feel the financial limitations on our resources mean we will float, peak & drop dependent upon the players we have in each window.

If we can add "honourable defeat" to our annual review- I'll take that.

IF, and this is a big if, IF MP can make the hard decision to move on players, and demand they leave, even where contracted, and they can be honourable enough to accept it is time too, we can move on.

As much as I am not certain MP is a good game day coach, I believe a lot is a result of the players and they have escaped too much blame and responsibility these past few years.

If we can ask that MP do the honourable thing and resign- surely we can ask some players to likewise do so?

I hope this week is a positive for us- players putting their hands up and taking the plank. It might mean we lose a "star" or a favourite, but something has to happen.

Lets see what this weeks selections bring.

 

[powerful girl]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

I hate to say this as I have been a really a huge fan of Matty, but I am starting to really question his ability to coach in a difficult situation at this level.

It is clear that the list that he has to work with and previous years of recruiting, current coaching staff, fitness staff etc leave a lot to be desired, and I recognise that.

BUT, I am thinking that given it is more than a year since he has been leading these players, regardless of ability, we would be seeing some improvements in work ethic, attitudes, determination, spirit, courage and team unity. TBH I am just not seeing it.

I can accept the losses (would prefer not to see total slaughterings though) and that younger players need to develop and all that goes with rebuilding but I can't help thinking that a really good leader of people would have at least instilled some passion and commitment from his team by now.

I hope I am wrong, I would like to see him succeed, maybe there is a plan and the current situation is part of it, but I am just not seeing it.

 

[TonyBecht]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

I hate to say this as I have been a really a huge fan of Matty, but I am starting to really question his ability to coach in a difficult situation at this level.

It is clear that the list that he has to work with and previous years of recruiting, current coaching staff, fitness staff etc leave a lot to be desired, and I recognise that.

BUT, I am thinking that given it is more than a year since he has been leading these players, regardless of ability, we would be seeing some improvements in work ethic, attitudes, determination, spirit, courage and team unity. TBH I am just not seeing it.

I can accept the losses (would prefer not to see total slaughterings though) and that younger players need to develop and all that goes with rebuilding but I can't help thinking that a really good leader of people would have at least instilled some passion and commitment from his team by now.

I hope I am wrong, I would like to see him succeed, maybe there is a plan and the current situation is part of it, but I am just not seeing it.

Give it 6 months
You will see fitter, stronger, bigger and different players
Chin up

 

[tribey]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Give it 6 months
You will see fitter, stronger, bigger and different players
Chin up

We have a fella on here, 'PowerFreak2008' or similar, who works in the sports fitness industry.

He has given us the impression that fitness regime-to-gameplan ratios take years to fully implement as players' bodyshapes, aerobic ceilings and the like adapt to what they need to do.

Long story short and with this in mind, even if we accept Falloon is a flop and will be gone in time for the coming preseason, the new guy - regardless of acumen - won't get truly desired results for at least 12-18 months. And time isn't exactly something we have a lot of.

That said, shit it will be nice to see our players not blowing up 15 minutes into Q1.

 

[powerful girl]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Give it 6 months
You will see fitter, stronger, bigger and different players
Chin up

I hope so, I really do.

Just a thought though, wouldn't he have been in the ear of the players he wants to keep and ask them to really step up as they are a part of his long term plan, build their confidence, self esteem etc? We should be something from those players at least, or is it possible that he hasn't actually committed to anyone much as yet?

 

[Forzaport]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

That said, shit it will be nice to see our players not blowing up 15 minutes into Q1.

It's infuriating seeing our players hunched over gasping for air while on-field before the first quarter is even finished. Surely this must be the clearest sign that our players are unfit for 2011 AFL. We really need to change our fitness gurus.

 

[FishingRick04]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Maybe Matty is getting us so low now, that we can win or try to win at A.O but still be last? hmmm

We did just lose to the top and 3third placed team right?

 

[Spadge]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

maybe we'll be the first team to lose by 100 points at Adelaide Oval as well
great

 

[b0ydman]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Seeing us go man on man (shock) was terrific and I thought Prius showed more animation- admittedly cardboard shows more involvement- but yep, well done

Can I ask, especially for anyone there at the game- positionally (structurally) did we change anything in the 4th when they got the run on?

Was today just one of those things- bad luck, bounce, umpires, momentum

Was today #24 of bad loses from the jaws of victory, or was it different?

I want to blame the players, the umps, I want to congratulate Primus, I want him to keep the man on man

I was hoping he showed us a glimpse of his "Manhattan Project" as well.

Did we just get unlucky, or did Primus lose that one too?

thoughts?

 

[Peck]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

We didn't change a thing from memory. Threw Gray in the centre but that was about it.

My old man was saying it was ridiculous that Primus didn't throw every man and his dog behind the ball when we got 5 goals up, but I don't buy that.

Definitely a home ground win that one. The crowd (albeit a soft crowd who were quiet until they found some momentum and I think I may have seen some leave) got involved in the last quarter and the umpires were well on their side.

We probably got out coached in the end though, which considering Essendon's assistant coaching panel isn't unexpected IMO.

EDIT: CAn't believe you weren't there b0ydy. Poor form ! (but seriously our cheersquad of 10 people made up half of the port supporters at the game )

 

[b0ydman]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

EDIT: CAn't believe you weren't there b0ydy. Poor form ! (but seriously our cheersquad of 10 people made up half of the port supporters at the game )

Sigh. Sunday. Its hard being one of those nutjob Christians when Vlad the anti-christ runs the competition

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Primus received some praise from Jimmy Hird.

link

"All credit has to go to Port Adelaide," Hird said.

"They've been under the pump and Matthew Primus has been under the pump alot, and I think the way they played the game was excellent."

"Some of the tactical things they were doing, our players weren't adjusting to. It was not only the way they got their players going, but tactically, I think he coached really well today and set them on a really good way."

link

Primus also responded to the criticism of his match day demeanour.

"We've all got our opinions. I'm only really concerned about the opinions of the board and the others in the football department. I'm not concerned about what commentators have to say," he said.

"I know exactly what path I'm taking the club down and where we're heading and what we've got ahead of us. If I sit on the bench with my legs crossed, or sit upside down, it shouldn't really matter."

"I'm here to make this club as good as I can be with the players and I'll continue to do that."

Seems to be a bit of a push coming out of Victoria to dump him for Rocket Eade.

Keith Thomas in his interviews has been strongly supportive of Matt and getting the right team around him. Who knows, it might include Eade.

 

[FishingRick04]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Honestly Ford what would the media backlash be if we sacked another coach this time 1/3 into his term?

It would give them more ammunition and tbh, I'm sick of listening to these so called experts.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Port won't sack Primus but I still think one of those assistant coaches that keeps missing out in interviews - like Neeld and Richardson even McCartney - would be smart to up and move over here in a senior assistant role.

Or Eade in a director of coaching type position.

 

[FishingRick04]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Port won't sack Primus but I still think one of those assistant coaches that keeps missing out in interviews - like Neeld and Richardson even McCartney - would be smart to up and move over here in a senior assistant role.

Or Eade in a director of coaching type position.

Would they up and move? They do seem reluctant to come over? I didn't realise Adelaide's water has deteriotated that badly

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Beats me. We have a lot more money to offer now and they keep missing out in interviews - so the whiff of rejection is getting strong.

Neeld is at Collingwood, there's no future there. McCartney is at Essendon so he's hit the glass ceiling - depending who you believe Primus beat him not Chris Scott out of the job and Port were keen to get him over but didn't have the money. Richardson is at Carlton so he might be a chance there but Carlton may be after an established coach if they bomb out in finals again.

If Eade doesn't go straight into a job he'll be looking for something that may lead somewhere. Don't know if he's all that media friendly so I'm not sure of his options there.

These guys would want to be looking at being in the right place at the right time.

I wouldn't be surprised if the AFL money didn't come with a bit of a nudge on the direction to spend it.

 

[Natman]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

I don't think that Neeld, Richardson or McCartney will ever get a senior job - too many knockbacks, not enough profile and in a couple of cases not enough playing experience IMO. Forever the best man.

Leppitch, Lappin, Cameron, Lade et al will be preferred for jobs going forward.

 

[Janus]

Re: If it's true about Brogan and Chad

When Primus spoke of being a 'humble' team, this is exactly the type of shit he was speaking against. For too long the Cornes brothers have considered themselves bigger than the club. A humble man would accept that the standard with which Kane has been playing at for the past few seasons isn't acceptable, and work on their game style in order to move and adapt to the times.

Kane says he doesn't have to prove anything to anyone. Bullshit - he has to prove it to HIMSELF that he is still relevant in the modern era. Gone are the days where a player could simply get by on the reputation of being a good tagger - you need to be able to hurt the opposition when it's your turn to get the ball, too. And the fact that he is so arrogant that he considers himself above continual improvement in a game where to stagnate equals death means that his attitude is just as poor as that of his father.

What sort of ****ing example does this attitude of 'I believe I'm good enough, so the hell with you all' set for the young players at this club??

The sooner the Cornes cancer is cut out from PAFC, the better everyone will be. Kane used to be good when he felt like he had something to prove with that chip on his shoulder - now he's just got the ****ing chip.

 

[Natman]

Re: If it's true about Brogan and Chad

When Primus spoke of being a 'humble' team, this is exactly the type of shit he was speaking against. For too long the Cornes brothers have considered themselves bigger than the club. A humble man would accept that the standard with which Kane has been playing at for the past few seasons isn't acceptable, and work on their game style in order to move and adapt to the times.

Kane says he doesn't have to prove anything to anyone. Bullshit - he has to prove it to HIMSELF that he is still relevant in the modern era. Gone are the days where a player could simply get by on the reputation of being a good tagger - you need to be able to hurt the opposition when it's your turn to get the ball, too. And the fact that he is so arrogant that he considers himself above continual improvement in a game where to stagnate equals death means that his attitude is just as poor as that of his father.

What sort of ****ing example does this attitude of 'I believe I'm good enough, so the hell with you all' set for the young players at this club??

The sooner the Cornes cancer is cut out from PAFC, the better everyone will be. Kane used to be good when he felt like he had something to prove with that chip on his shoulder - now he's just got the ****ing chip.

It's amazing how many posters went ballistic at Primus when he said that - when obviously going off half-cocked without knowing that he meant 'humble' within the club and team environment. Primus deserves some credit for trying to implement significant change in difficult circumstances.

 

[S.Patrol.G]

Re: If it's true about Brogan and Chad

It's amazing how many posters went ballistic at Primus when he said that - when obviously going off half-cocked without knowing that he meant 'humble' within the club and team environment. Primus deserves some credit for trying to implement significant change in difficult circumstances.

Damn Straight!! There's a reason our kids are re-signing. You only need to look at our cross-town rival to see what happens when players aren't comfortable with the direction a club is taking.

I reckon we're on the cusp of having a truly united playing group where everyone is valued and equal. I think Primus is taking some big hits now and he's made some of Choco's old boys a little cranky, but I think I see what he's doing.