Primus - how is the gloss looking

[Waspy79]

Re: If it's true about Brogan and Chad

As Laidley said mid-season, Primus opened Pandora's Box.

 

[finbarr]

Re: If it's true about Brogan and Chad

It's amazing how many posters went ballistic at Primus when he said that - when obviously going off half-cocked without knowing that he meant 'humble' within the club and team environment. Primus deserves some credit for trying to implement significant change in difficult circumstances.

As bad as things have gotten this year i've been loathe to criticise Primus and have been more than happy to weigh up whether or not his appointment has been a success or failure after he's been in the job for at least two years. At times my patience has been truly tested, particularly with game style/game plan or lack there of.

But it's becoming more and more apparent that 2011 was all about "the recession we had to have". It's been about ridding the club of trouble makers/faction leaders and creating an almost unbreakable bond between the players who will be here for the long haul.

It may turn out that Matthew Primus isn't the man to coach this group to future success. We don't know that yet. But if Matthew Primus does vacate the job in the next few years the person who takes his place will owe him an enormous debt of gratitude for cleaning up the mess and copping some huge blows in the process.

I personally hope he proves a lot of us wrong.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Re: If it's true about Brogan and Chad

As bad as things have gotten this year i've been loathe to criticise Primus and have been more than happy to weigh up whether or not his appointment has been a success or failure after he's been in the job for at least two years. At times my patience has been truly tested, particularly with game style/game plan or lack there of.

But it's becoming more and more apparent that 2011 was all about "the recession we had to have". It's been about ridding the club of trouble makers/faction leaders and creating an almost unbreakable bond between the players who will be here for the long haul.

It may turn out that Matthew Primus isn't the man to coach this group to future success. We don't know that yet. But if Matthew Primus does vacate the job in the next few years the person who takes his place will owe him an enormous debt of gratitude for cleaning up the mess and copping some huge blows in the process.

I personally hope he proves a lot of us wrong.

Great post Finny. I agree entirely.

 

[sog35]

Re: If it's true about Brogan and Chad

Not only that he's doing it to the blokes he used to play with. Huge cajones.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

This is what I don't get...

Primus and Chad have said how they are great mates, even to the point of deliberately not talking to each other during part of the year to protect their friendship.

Chad is supposed to be a cancer and a bad influence.

Primus was a player, assistant coach and then coach for all of Chad's time at Port.

Primus is supposed to be weeding out all the bad crap that has built up over the last 1/2 decade.


The question has to be asked, why didn't Primus speak up earlier re Chad and others and change things by at least telling them what they are doing isn't right? Or was he oblivious to it all? Or when did the penny finally drop?

 

[PatientMental]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Probably that he knew chad wasn't a part of our future and decided not to strain ties with a friend for the benifit of a single season. But with the others he began to break down the egos of the older players and the few who didn't want to budge where asked to gtfo or change. Some who complied and others who didn't

 

[bomberclifford]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

This is what I don't get...

Primus and Chad have said how they are great mates, even to the point of deliberately not talking to each other during part of the year to protect their friendship.

Chad is supposed to be a cancer and a bad influence.

Primus was a player, assistant coach and then coach for all of Chad's time at Port.

Primus is supposed to be weeding out all the bad crap that has built up over the last 1/2 decade.

The question has to be asked, why didn't Primus speak up earlier re Chad and others and change things by at least telling them what they are doing isn't right? Or was he oblivious to it all? Or when did the penny finally drop?

I don't think Chad was a problem in that regard.
Chad's just on the outer because he's over 30.

Kane on the other hand...

 

[Forzaport]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

I actually think Chad has been mellowed to a point by all his injuries from 2008-2010 and from some top notch mentoring by Hocking this year. In any normal year he would have retired and moved on with his life. This year though, GWS is resurrecting at least 4 careers which presents a unique and rare opportunity for Chad. This of course plays right into the hands of the sceptics who feel Chad has been hard done by.

Kane on the other hand is now on the outer and is going down kicking and screaming.

 

[Honeyboy Wilson]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

I don't think you'll find that Chad and Primus are mates.

I also don't like this approach that "sure, he may not lead us to a flag, but at least he will have done all the dirty work for his successor..."

ANYONE could have done this "dirty work". Literally ANYONE. I could have done what Primus did this year. So I will place a whole stink of blame Primus' way if he doesn't get us anywhere near competitive. I won't see it as a "recession we needed to have". I'll see it as a really shitty coach.

I haven't written him off yet, but he's come close to the worst start I can possibly imagine our new coach having. If he doesn't improve next year then I won't be looking at positives like "well he's set the club up well for the future!" - no he's just wasted our time.

 

[simba_]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

This is what I don't get...

Primus and Chad have said how they are great mates, even to the point of deliberately not talking to each other during part of the year to protect their friendship.

Chad is supposed to be a cancer and a bad influence.

Primus was a player, assistant coach and then coach for all of Chad's time at Port.

Primus is supposed to be weeding out all the bad crap that has built up over the last 1/2 decade.


The question has to be asked, why didn't Primus speak up earlier re Chad and others and change things by at least telling them what they are doing isn't right? Or was he oblivious to it all? Or when did the penny finally drop?

from what I've gathered it seems like certain people in the club have never wanted a bar of what anyone else thinks, why I don't know, but now that Primus has the coaching job he has power that he never had. as captain he could have said this and that about some attitudes but that was the choco era.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

ANYONE could have done this "dirty work". Literally ANYONE. I could have done what Primus did this year.

So? Anyone could have done what any coach in the history of the AFL as done, all they do is give instructions. The question is, would any coach have done what Primus has done? Choco certainly wouldn't have.

And I'm starting to come around to Primus. The gameplan is a bit Choco-lite, but that can be assisted with better coaching support around him, which seems likely to happen next year. The most important thing for the senior coach to do (because unlike the gameplan, he's the only one who can do it) in transitioning the club from the Choco era into the new era is standing up to the culture of individualism that existed at the club and changing it into a team-first culture, and his actions when it comes to Kane Cornes are a significant statement of that goal.

Under Choco, we had the egos of the Corneses running wild, reportedly to the extent that the Burgoynes were driven out. We had Motlop and Surjan fighting in pre-season games while Surj's girlfriend sued Motlop off of the field. We had Tredrea as the only player who voted for Tredrea to be captain. We had Stuart Dew 'retire' from the club, only to come back for Hawthorn the year after. We had a club that pandered to every need of a very average player in Nathan Krakouer, only to see him piss off to the Gold Coast (I'm sure all that money will help the crybaby prick with his homesickness ).

Under Primus, we've signed up everyone we wanted to keep, we have players like Brogan and Chad Cornes retired for the good of the team, we have Kane Cornes on the outer (and despite what he thinks in his own selfish head, everything he's done since being dropped has proved Primus 100% right) and we have a young group close enough to head up to the Glanville hotel for the night and invite all Port supporters out for a get-together.

The first and most important thing that Primus has to do is turn around the attitude of the playing group, and recent signs suggest that he's doing a damn good job of it. He could be the best match-day coach in the world, but it wouldn't help if the culture of individualism was allowed to run rampant as it had been. Fixing the attitude is the first step, and everything else he or any other coach in the near future does will build off of the platform that Primus (with the help of the far more likeable new crop of players) has created.

 

[FishingRick04]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

So? Anyone could have done what any coach in the history of the AFL as done, all they do is give instructions. The question is, would any coach have done what Primus has done? Choco certainly wouldn't have.

I agree with you, it isn't that easy. Clubs are very political (obviously) and I agree Choco hasn't been able to make the hard calls, Primus has started and the trade period will show us more.

Bernie we know you have a die hard passion for the old school players and there is nothing wrong with that, but their time is up and there was no other way for Primus to go, they need to accept that.

Primus was doomed either way, people like Walls would have fired shots if it stayed with the old firm and didn't play the kids and playing the kids he gets cracked for not playing the old firm fella's!

People look at it either way postively or negatively, our luck has been all negative, the only other sports clubs or people I can think of with the same treatment is Webber and Hewitt.

 

[S.Patrol.G]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Perhaps 2011 was the year which focussed on plotting a course, getting the ship seaworthy, effectively crewed and ready for the journey.

2012 will be about lifting anchor and beginning the journey in earnest.

 

[PortBrillance]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

I think Kane's the problem

 

[Cyrus the Virus]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

So? Anyone could have done what any coach in the history of the AFL as done, all they do is give instructions. The question is, would any coach have done what Primus has done? Choco certainly wouldn't have.

And I'm starting to come around to Primus. The gameplan is a bit Choco-lite, but that can be assisted with better coaching support around him, which seems likely to happen next year. The most important thing for the senior coach to do (because unlike the gameplan, he's the only one who can do it) in transitioning the club from the Choco era into the new era is standing up to the culture of individualism that existed at the club and changing it into a team-first culture, and his actions when it comes to Kane Cornes are a significant statement of that goal.

Under Choco, we had the egos of the Corneses running wild, reportedly to the extent that the Burgoynes were driven out. We had Motlop and Surjan fighting in pre-season games while Surj's girlfriend sued Motlop off of the field. We had Tredrea as the only player who voted for Tredrea to be captain. We had Stuart Dew 'retire' from the club, only to come back for Hawthorn the year after. We had a club that pandered to every need of a very average player in Nathan Krakouer, only to see him piss off to the Gold Coast (I'm sure all that money will help the crybaby prick with his homesickness ).

Under Primus, we've signed up everyone we wanted to keep, we have players like Brogan and Chad Cornes retired for the good of the team, we have Kane Cornes on the outer (and despite what he thinks in his own selfish head, everything he's done since being dropped has proved Primus 100% right) and we have a young group close enough to head up to the Glanville hotel for the night and invite all Port supporters out for a get-together.

The first and most important thing that Primus has to do is turn around the attitude of the playing group, and recent signs suggest that he's doing a damn good job of it. He could be the best match-day coach in the world, but it wouldn't help if the culture of individualism was allowed to run rampant as it had been. Fixing the attitude is the first step, and everything else he or any other coach in the near future does will build off of the platform that Primus (with the help of the far more likeable new crop of players) has created.

good post

 

[elsler]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

So? Anyone could have done what any coach in the history of the AFL as done, all they do is give instructions. The question is, would any coach have done what Primus has done? Choco certainly wouldn't have.

And I'm starting to come around to Primus. The gameplan is a bit Choco-lite, but that can be assisted with better coaching support around him, which seems likely to happen next year. The most important thing for the senior coach to do (because unlike the gameplan, he's the only one who can do it) in transitioning the club from the Choco era into the new era is standing up to the culture of individualism that existed at the club and changing it into a team-first culture, and his actions when it comes to Kane Cornes are a significant statement of that goal.

Under Choco, we had the egos of the Corneses running wild, reportedly to the extent that the Burgoynes were driven out. We had Motlop and Surjan fighting in pre-season games while Surj's girlfriend sued Motlop off of the field. We had Tredrea as the only player who voted for Tredrea to be captain. We had Stuart Dew 'retire' from the club, only to come back for Hawthorn the year after. We had a club that pandered to every need of a very average player in Nathan Krakouer, only to see him piss off to the Gold Coast (I'm sure all that money will help the crybaby prick with his homesickness ).

Under Primus, we've signed up everyone we wanted to keep, we have players like Brogan and Chad Cornes retired for the good of the team, we have Kane Cornes on the outer (and despite what he thinks in his own selfish head, everything he's done since being dropped has proved Primus 100% right) and we have a young group close enough to head up to the Glanville hotel for the night and invite all Port supporters out for a get-together.

The first and most important thing that Primus has to do is turn around the attitude of the playing group, and recent signs suggest that he's doing a damn good job of it. He could be the best match-day coach in the world, but it wouldn't help if the culture of individualism was allowed to run rampant as it had been. Fixing the attitude is the first step, and everything else he or any other coach in the near future does will build off of the platform that Primus (with the help of the far more likeable new crop of players) has created.

Couldnt have said it better myself and i was one of those supporters who went to the glanville and i was very happy with what i saw

 

[Honeyboy Wilson]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

So? Anyone could have done what any coach in the history of the AFL as done, all they do is give instructions. The question is, would any coach have done what Primus has done? Choco certainly wouldn't have.

And I'm starting to come around to Primus. The gameplan is a bit Choco-lite, but that can be assisted with better coaching support around him, which seems likely to happen next year. The most important thing for the senior coach to do (because unlike the gameplan, he's the only one who can do it) in transitioning the club from the Choco era into the new era is standing up to the culture of individualism that existed at the club and changing it into a team-first culture, and his actions when it comes to Kane Cornes are a significant statement of that goal.

Under Choco, we had the egos of the Corneses running wild, reportedly to the extent that the Burgoynes were driven out. We had Motlop and Surjan fighting in pre-season games while Surj's girlfriend sued Motlop off of the field. We had Tredrea as the only player who voted for Tredrea to be captain. We had Stuart Dew 'retire' from the club, only to come back for Hawthorn the year after. We had a club that pandered to every need of a very average player in Nathan Krakouer, only to see him piss off to the Gold Coast (I'm sure all that money will help the crybaby prick with his homesickness ).

Under Primus, we've signed up everyone we wanted to keep, we have players like Brogan and Chad Cornes retired for the good of the team, we have Kane Cornes on the outer (and despite what he thinks in his own selfish head, everything he's done since being dropped has proved Primus 100% right) and we have a young group close enough to head up to the Glanville hotel for the night and invite all Port supporters out for a get-together.

The first and most important thing that Primus has to do is turn around the attitude of the playing group, and recent signs suggest that he's doing a damn good job of it. He could be the best match-day coach in the world, but it wouldn't help if the culture of individualism was allowed to run rampant as it had been. Fixing the attitude is the first step, and everything else he or any other coach in the near future does will build off of the platform that Primus (with the help of the far more likeable new crop of players) has created.

No, what I'm saying is that I don't have the ability to coach. Most people don't.

But I do have the ability to say "you're not playing, you're not playing, you're not playing, how old are you? You're not playing, how old are you? 21? Oh, you're playing..."

That's all Primus did this year.

Let's have a look at his track record for his ONLY full season as head coach:

- Worst season for the Port Adelaide Football Club in its AFL history.
- Biggest losing margin EVER (twice!)
- Longest losing streak EVER

In the ONE season. That's an awful start.

Senior players went BACKWARDS this year. You may buy into the whole "oh, they were just exposed" thing - but come on, how come we were the only team in the league that had every single senior player "exposed" by the modern game in the one year a new coach takes over?

And in terms of the younger players... well... really? We saw some POTENTIAL. And that's all. We didn't actually see any mindblowing performances from our young players (except for John Butcher late in the season). No one had an actual "breakout" game (again, apart from John Butcher who came at the time we needed him most to give us some hope for the future). Even our future superstars that are still in the young bracket such as Boak seemingly stagnated from last year. He was meant to be All Australian this year remember?

So all of this combined... yeah I think Primus did a really shitty job in his first season. There are definitely some positives and as I've been saying from the middle of this season (which no one seems to listen to) - I'm HAPPY he's playing the younger players. There would've been no point in changing that up after he'd obviously given us no hope of making Finals with this team selections from day dot. I initially wanted us to play to win, but we didn't, so now I'm on the developing bandwagon and have been for at least half the season.

The fact is - Primus was shit. Horrible. He barely had a gameplan for most of the year, we got destroyed most weeks, we crumbled in last quarters / halves and we managed to beat 3 horrible teams. Good for us.

Also, like I said, I'm not writing him off - next year he will have better support and I'm interested to see how we go. But like I said, if there's no improvement next year, then this whole Primus thing has been a colossal waste of ****ing time. That's all I'm saying. He's done nothing to show me he can actually COACH yet.

I agree with you, it isn't that easy. Clubs are very political (obviously) and I agree Choco hasn't been able to make the hard calls, Primus has started and the trade period will show us more.

Bernie we know you have a die hard passion for the old school players and there is nothing wrong with that, but their time is up and there was no other way for Primus to go, they need to accept that.

Primus was doomed either way, people like Walls would have fired shots if it stayed with the old firm and didn't play the kids and playing the kids he gets cracked for not playing the old firm fella's!

People look at it either way postively or negatively, our luck has been all negative, the only other sports clubs or people I can think of with the same treatment is Webber and Hewitt.

Read above - it's got nothing to do with my die hard passion for the old sckool players. It's got to do with the fact Primus was a terrible coach this season. His player selection, even when going down the "blooding youngsters" path was horrible, and look at his record that I posted above. If he'd done this with the exact same team as last year, I'd be even more furious. So it's nothing to do with the older players.

 

[PortBrillance]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

I said it in another thread but I'll say it here.

I respect Primus more than I ever have. Even though in my humble opinion believe that he is not the right man nor do I think he has much coaching ability. I do believe that he is in a bad spot right now. The amount of pressure he would of been under and all the crap we get in the media in SA, plus the lack of "football resources" would take its toll on Primus's mental state. He would be the saddest bloke in SA

I hope he proves me wrong and coaches us to a flag. But I do highly respect him more now then I ever have. I'll give him a chance.

 

[Cyrus the Virus]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Senior players went BACKWARDS this year. You may buy into the whole "oh, they were just exposed" thing - but come on, how come we were the only team in the league that had every single senior player "exposed" by the modern game in the one year a new coach takes over?

We lost 9 in a row last year and have not made the finals since 2007 with the same senior players playing week in week out. they have been going backwards and have been "exposed" for 4 years, and because they reached their peak in crapness this year, thats Matty's fault??

 

[Natman]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

We lost 9 in a row last year and have not made the finals since 2007 with the same senior players playing week in week out. they have been going backwards and have been "exposed" for 4 years, and because they reached their peak in crapness this year, thats Matty's fault??

And to add to that, John Worsfold premiership coach took the WCE bottom.
It's mostly about the cattle in the paddock.

 

[FishingRick04]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

you forgot Pittard and O'Shea Bernie, over the season they were butcher esq for me ohhh and Lobbe

 

[Honeyboy Wilson]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

We lost 9 in a row last year and have not made the finals since 2007 with the same senior players playing week in week out. they have been going backwards and have been "exposed" for 4 years, and because they reached their peak in crapness this year, thats Matty's fault??

9 in a row, yes... but here are the losing margins for those games:

26 (against Carlton - Finalists)
1 (against Melbourne)
47 (awful wet weather game against Richmond)
11 (against Hawthorn - Finalists)
38 (against Sydney - Finalists)
36 (against North Melbourne - our bogey team)
57 (against Fremantle - Finalists)
26 (against Collingwood - Premiers)
36 (against Western Bulldogs - Finalists)

Average losing margin of 30 points. The majority of those games against finalists.

Now let's look at this year's 11 game losing streak:

62 (against Carlton - Finalists)
22 (against West Coast - Finalists)
45 (against North Melbourne - our bogey team)
11 (against Brisbane)
56 (against St Kilda - Finalists)
21 (against Melbourne)
32 (against Adelaide)
138 (against Collingwood - Finalists)
165 (against Hawthorn - Finalists)
60 (against Western Bulldogs)
7 (against Essendon - Finalists)

Average losing margin of 56 points. Approximately half of the games against finalists.

You don't see that as a significant step backwards? We didn't have a mass changing of the guard this year, really. And no one wants to blame the youth - considering that it's an exaggeration how much we actually played this year (we weren't near the top in terms of most debutantes this year or very close to the bottom in terms of player's age averages). Also, they haven't been going "backwards" for 4 years, considering in 08 we finished 13th and then 10th for two years running. Then this year... 16th. So what's the main difference between this year and last?

The coach.

Now this whole thing is just simplifying it and I totally understand if everyone wants to have a really positive off-season and look forward to next year - but I'm not just gonna get swept away in the positivity. We were awful this year. Matthew Primus was awful this year. There is no proof to suggest otherwise.

And to add to that, John Worsfold premiership coach took the WCE bottom.
It's mostly about the cattle in the paddock.

Exactly. He was a premiership coach. They knew he could coach. He has runs on the board for his coaching prowess. One bad year does not a bad coach make. I'm not saying Primus is a bad coach - yet, I'm saying he was AWFUL this year and gave me no reason to think he will be a good coach in the future.

 

[Honeyboy Wilson]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

you forgot Pittard and O'Shea Bernie, over the season they were butcher esq for me ohhh and Lobbe

Jasper "clanger king" Pittard and Cameron "my best game was when I got 13 touches" O'Shea? Look, O'Shea convinced me by the end of the year. I think he will be a gun. Is he yet? Not even close. Jasper showed some beautiful poise and great decision making... along with some AWFUL decision making and skill wobbles. I think he will be a jet as well, but is he yet? No way.

Lobbe was a shining light for sure. But again - he only won one ruck battle for the whole year. It's not like he's an amazing player yet. He's an amazing foundation for the future. That's all.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

I'm not saying Geelong are going to be ruing getting Chris Scott instead of mastercoach Primus or anything, but you can't be too harsh on him. He didn't start his senior coaching career off well, but who can blame him? He had a very, very average list who overachieved last year (getting 10 wins with the highest winning margin being 29 points takes a massive amount of luck), and taking over that list was a first year coach surrounded mainly by first year assistant coaches, apart from Laidley who was only there half the time and Cripps who is a spud. Anybody would've struggled.

The two most important things to come out of this season from a coaching perspective are a) Primus shows improvement, and b) he gets better support.

It took Primus a while, but he certainly did A. From quarter time of the Bulldogs game onwards he pushed Pearce and Motlop further behind the ball, correcting our problems with stagnation and creating a more direct and more effective gameplan to the three tall forwards in Butcher, Schulz and Westhoff. That was good coaching. He stood up to the likes of Kane Cornes, and has bred an environment where the young players enjoy being at the club and want to stay. That was excellent coaching, and correcting the attitude is arguably more important than correcting the talent at this stage of our rebuild, because the right attitude is where everything else builds from.

B seems likely to come next year with experienced coaches like Walsh and Bailey, both of whom were premiership winning assistant coaches at Port Adelaide, reportedly coming back to give Primus the help that every young coach needs and that he didn't get in 2011.

Funnily enough, that paragraph you wrote about Lobbe describes our year as a whole. It certainly wasn't a successful year by any stretch of the imagination, but it was about building an amazing foundation for the future. Signing up everyone we wanted to keep, creating the turnaround in attitude and (late in the season) gameplan and getting gametime into the youngsters is an amazing foundation for the future.

 

[Portmanteau]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

2011 was detox.