Primus - how is the gloss looking

[Powerstufff]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

I'm not saying Geelong are going to be ruing getting Chris Scott instead of mastercoach Primus or anything...

I can only congratulate you on that whole +ve post but I'm firmly with Bernie Nips. Primus may have begun some important housekeeping for us but that did not require us having the season from hell. He is highly unlikely to be there in 2013 and that means we are condemned to 1,001 media articles on this through next year.

 

[Peck]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Jasper "clanger king" Pittard and Cameron "my best game was when I got 13 touches" O'Shea? Look, O'Shea convinced me by the end of the year. I think he will be a gun. Is he yet? Not even close. Jasper showed some beautiful poise and great decision making... along with some AWFUL decision making and skill wobbles. I think he will be a jet as well, but is he yet? No way.

Lobbe was a shining light for sure. But again - he only won one ruck battle for the whole year. It's not like he's an amazing player yet. He's an amazing foundation for the future. That's all.

I think you mean Jasper "OMG I'm within sight of the goals!!!" Pittard, and Cameron "Pickpocket" O'Shea.

 

[S.Patrol.G]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Jasper "clanger king" Pittard and Cameron "my best game was when I got 13 touches" O'Shea? Look, O'Shea convinced me by the end of the year. I think he will be a gun. Is he yet? Not even close. Jasper showed some beautiful poise and great decision making... along with some AWFUL decision making and skill wobbles. I think he will be a jet as well, but is he yet? No way.

Lobbe was a shining light for sure. But again - he only won one ruck battle for the whole year. It's not like he's an amazing player yet. He's an amazing foundation for the future. That's all.

So with one breath you condemn Primus for playing kids, then you pause, take another breath and condemn Pittard and O'Shea for how bad they are while also stating that one will be a gun and the other will be a jet?

Plus your assessment that Lobbe isn't an amazing player yet. Well knock me over with a feather! Of course they're not yet, but the way to make them better is to play them. Yep, that's right- actually F***ING play them!

And you reckon Primus' message is confusing

 

[WHOME]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

"A drowning man will clutch at a serpent" - Rod Marsh

 

[Honeyboy Wilson]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

So with one breath you condemn Primus for playing kids, then you pause, take another breath and condemn Pittard and O'Shea for how bad they are while also stating that one will be a gun and the other will be a jet?

Plus your assessment that Lobbe isn't an amazing player yet. Well knock me over with a feather! Of course they're not yet, but the way to make them better is to play them. Yep, that's right- actually F***ING play them!

And you reckon Primus' message is confusing

Look at that, you read the things that you wanna read and that's your opinion. Amazing.

The message you are responding to was me quantifying my position that none of those youngsters I mentioned had a breakout game this year. If you go back and read through my other posts you'd realise that I not only didn't say we shouldn't have played the kids, but I vehemently stated multiple times that I'm glad we did.

When did I condemn Primus for playing kids in any of the posts I made in this thread? Please, go and quote me. I'd love to see it. Or you could actually read my posts for once instead of skimming and assuming. It makes an ass out of u and... u.

 

[TheFVK]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

How do we really know how good or bad a coach really is? Check out these "years from hell":

-Malthouse, 15th in 2000 and 2005, priority picks
-Worsfold, coached West coast to their worst ever year last year, first wooden spoon in their proud history
-Thompson, almost sacked in 2006 after a 6-7 year period of underachievement

Yet these are arguably the elite coaches of today's game. At the end of it a coach's record is very much marked by the team that steps out on the park. Ultimately I'd like our 22 to effectively "coach themselves" ala Geelong, a team which doesn't need a kick up the bum every quarter to motivate them but which has the onfield leadership and united group strength to do the job themselves.

Adding talent, character and keeping the group together will go a long way to achieving this. I've liked Matty's hard stance on the underachieving seniors, I've liked his youth policy and consistent message and vision. If (and it's an if) he can implement a gameplan that will stand up in finals football I see no reason why he couldn't eventually be held in the same esteem as the aforementioned coaches.

 

[S.Patrol.G]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Look at that, you read the things that you wanna read and that's your opinion. Amazing.

The message you are responding to was me quantifying my position that none of those youngsters I mentioned had a breakout game this year. If you go back and read through my other posts you'd realise that I not only didn't say we shouldn't have played the kids, but I vehemently stated multiple times that I'm glad we did.

When did I condemn Primus for playing kids in any of the posts I made in this thread? Please, go and quote me. I'd love to see it. Or you could actually read my posts for once instead of skimming and assuming. It makes an ass out of u and... u.

Bernie, I've read every one of your searching posts and when I've got time, I'll go back and look at extracting some specific quotes where I feel your message is contradictory and questions Primus' selection of youth. If I'm mistaken, I'll also be man enough to admit an error and I'll be sure to read much more carefully

And I see what you did at the end there- heaps funny.

 

[Relativity]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

This is what I don't get...

Primus and Chad have said how they are great mates, even to the point of deliberately not talking to each other during part of the year to protect their friendship.

I don't get this either. I can't see any good excuse for no communication with Chad. Why did it take so long for the reported "beer and chat" to break the ice. If there is/was a problem you don't make it any better by letting it fester. Mates don't do this and neither do good leaders.

 

[Honeyboy Wilson]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Bernie, I've read every one of your searching posts and when I've got time, I'll go back and look at extracting some specific quotes where I feel your message is contradictory and questions Primus' selection of youth. If I'm mistaken, I'll also be man enough to admit an error and I'll be sure to read much more carefully

And I see what you did at the end there- heaps funny.

I look forward to it, in particular I can't wait for these bad boys to show up:

There are definitely some positives and as I've been saying from the middle of this season (which no one seems to listen to) - I'm HAPPY he's playing the younger players. There would've been no point in changing that up after he'd obviously given us no hope of making Finals with this team selections from day dot. I initially wanted us to play to win, but we didn't, so now I'm on the developing bandwagon and have been for at least half the season.

Read above - it's got nothing to do with my die hard passion for the old sckool players. It's got to do with the fact Primus was a terrible coach this season. His player selection, even when going down the "blooding youngsters" path was horrible, and look at his record that I posted above. If he'd done this with the exact same team as last year, I'd be even more furious. So it's nothing to do with the older players.

Jasper "clanger king" Pittard and Cameron "my best game was when I got 13 touches" O'Shea? Look, O'Shea convinced me by the end of the year. I think he will be a gun. Is he yet? Not even close. Jasper showed some beautiful poise and great decision making... along with some AWFUL decision making and skill wobbles. I think he will be a jet as well, but is he yet? No way.

Lobbe was a shining light for sure. But again - he only won one ruck battle for the whole year. It's not like he's an amazing player yet. He's an amazing foundation for the future. That's all.

We didn't have a mass changing of the guard this year, really. And no one wants to blame the youth - considering that it's an exaggeration how much we actually played this year (we weren't near the top in terms of most debutantes this year or very close to the bottom in terms of player's age averages).

That last one in particular shows how I feel we should have blooded MORE youth. And all these quotes are directly from the previous page. So I don't know where the mixed message is coming from. Here's all I've said in this thread in a nutshell:

- I'm glad Primus blooded youngsters.
- I still think he did a piss-poor job of coaching this season.

How are they contradictory? Team selection is a PART of coaching, but it isn't all that coaching is. If that's all it was I'd have a slightly higher opinion of Primus, but I still think he was choosing the wrong SENIOR players week in and week out. So when you add the fact that for the majority of the time he was a horrible GAME DAY coach, yeah I think my opinion is valid.

And not at all contradictory.

 

[Jonts]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

I'm still waiting until he's got a senior fulltime assistaint (i'm hoping Eade over Bailey) with him until i make my final call on his coaching

and this thread has been a great read good opinions oon both sides

 

[FishingRick04]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Bernie the problem I have is I don't understand your arguement of playing Chad, Daniel, Ebert, Kane etc.

They have been the main players who have helped serve up the finishes we have had sinse 2007. They have had 4 years to pull us out and provide leadership and have been unsuccessful in doing so. These boys should have been lifting the young boys up.

Primus obviously acknowledged this and accepted it was time to move on, personally Logan and Pettigrew we lucky to get games but there isn't much else left.

These guys have no arguments IMO

 

[FishingRick04]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

How do we really know how good or bad a coach really is? Check out these "years from hell":

-Malthouse, 15th in 2000 and 2005, priority picks
-Worsfold, coached West coast to their worst ever year last year, first wooden spoon in their proud history
-Thompson, almost sacked in 2006 after a 6-7 year period of underachievement

Yet these are arguably the elite coaches of today's game. At the end of it a coach's record is very much marked by the team that steps out on the park. Ultimately I'd like our 22 to effectively "coach themselves" ala Geelong, a team which doesn't need a kick up the bum every quarter to motivate them but which has the onfield leadership and united group strength to do the job themselves.

Adding talent, character and keeping the group together will go a long way to achieving this. I've liked Matty's hard stance on the underachieving seniors, I've liked his youth policy and consistent message and vision. If (and it's an if) he can implement a gameplan that will stand up in finals football I see no reason why he couldn't eventually be held in the same esteem as the aforementioned coaches.

This will come in time with experience, alot of the boys are learning and therefore need more guidance compared to a Geelong.

What I find interesting is how long Geelong have been around the mark, they started their rise in 2004 and are still going, St Kilda were the same in time.

We started in 01 through to 04, I guess we can push it to 07 so 6 years.

Those teams are now 7 years so surely there decline will have to start very soon!

 

[Honeyboy Wilson]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Bernie the problem I have is I don't understand your arguement of playing Chad, Daniel, Ebert, Kane etc.

They have been the main players who have helped serve up the finishes we have had sinse 2007. They have had 4 years to pull us out and provide leadership and have been unsuccessful in doing so. These boys should have been lifting the young boys up.

Primus obviously acknowledged this and accepted it was time to move on, personally Logan and Pettigrew we lucky to get games but there isn't much else left.

These guys have no arguments IMO

I've never called for Ebert or Kane to be selected on their form.

I called for Chad to be selected purely on form and his ability to protect our younger players and be an on field leader. He was playing better than the players being selected in front of him. For instance, he had a 20 possession 2 goal game from CHF for Glenelg and his teammate, Steven Salopek got the call up after a 14 possession game in the midfield. That was just plain stubbornness. A coach not wanting to admit that perhaps he wasn't making the right selections.

With Daniel - I've never campaigned for him to be in the team, but I was disappointed when he was initially dropped. He never lit the world on fire to announce himself as a certainty to get back into the team, but when we finally did give him another run he played well, better than most of our players.

So the weird thing is - I'm the only one that seemingly is NOT living in the past. I'm not blaming PAST failures on our senior players' current form. Apparently 2007 has affected the entire playing group so much we need to cull them all. I don't agree with this and suddenly I'M LIVING IN THE PAST because I think some of our senior players should've been given a go when they weren't?

 

[b0ydman]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Bernie I've enjoyed your posts the past few pages and strongly agree.

We have him, and the same players.

I guess I have to want to suck my pride in - and see players I don't rate (ie Westhoff, Oshea, Salopek etc) that I think are list cloggers - do well next year

Ditto MPrimus, I think he is the worst AFL coach since Tim Watson (but better than) completely and utterly out of his depth.

Which do I want more I guess?

My ego being proven right, or the Club to be successful?

Probably a few of us in the same boat here

I'll go into bat for the latter. Its all I have

denial, hope, whichever. Got no choice have we

May they all train hard over summer and grow into his game plan

 

[PJ Power]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

I'm still waiting on proof that there will be significant off-field (coaching and management) and on-field changes to the team that Primus is trying to assemble.

So far, we have no hard evidence that much will change next year at all. Until we know exactly who will be lining up on the field (assume few changes based on Primus speak) and who will be in the coaches' box, I find it hard to increase my expectations for next year.

 

[Pedro59]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Even a drover's dog could 'play all the kids'

that alone does not constitute tactics , game plan , training drills etc

I wonder if it was Laidley who kept the whole thing together this year

You call that together?? he he

 

[Schulzenfest]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

while Boak has now dropped outside of the top 10 in alot of people's opinions of the 2006 intake.

Only in SA. Victorians don't watch enough football to even know that he's stagnated.

 

[Holden Hillbilly]

Re: Primus - is the gloss wearing off already

Well if sanderson goes to the crows (declared on their board) that leaves Burns for the Power in 2013.

 

[Jakko]

Matt Primus

His body language on game day has changed a lot. I posted last year that I wanted to see "angry Matty" and its good to see him getting so fired up about mistakes and bad play.

He might have been this animated behind closed doors last year for all I know, but Im loving seeing it.

 

[Jakko]

Re: Matt Primus

Nobody else ses this? He is showing the heightened expectation and pressure without a doubt imo.

Oh and every time I see Bish next to him in the box I cant help but think of Karl Pilkington, sorry matthew.

 

[Doctor Feel]

Re: Matt Primus

I think he has significantly improved his press conferences and media presence. Definately looks more comfortable in his role.

 

[Holden Hillbilly]

Re: Matt Primus

And as Thomas has stated - if we do not continue to improve then he will be out of a job at season's end and replaced - hopefully with a coach from a club with recent successful culture.

I am still disgusted with the level of skills our players display - they are way below the top 6 clubs - and the senior coach has primary responsibility for that.

 

[Forzaport]

Re: Matt Primus

We have improved out of sight. The 2011 spec Port Adelaide would've lost the Essendon game by 10+ goals.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Re: Matt Primus

Primus is doing a fantastic job IMO.

The first thing that needed to change at our club was the culture. From the outside he has done a brilliant job there. Everything else flows on from that.

The players want to be successful at Port Adelaide.

The players intensity has already changed.

The game plan is slowly showing signs of improvement.

The skills still need a lot of work but now that they have theirs heads on straight these young lads will work hard on that and they will improve.

 

[YoungsterPA]

Re: Matt Primus

I think primus is doing really well at the moment and has changed the team a lot. I know there's no way we could afford him and he probably wouldn't come to us but god when malthouse talks you listen he would be a major help just for a couple of years.