Primus V Scott - The poll

[Power Pete]

I'm putting my hand up for Chris Scott.

One thing i will say - who ever gets the job they'll have my support.

 

[Toots Hibbert]

Not voting for either.

I'd like a completely new person brought in really, but preferably one with a bit of a track record.

Having said that neither of the Scott brothers has ever come across as particularly bright. I don't have a lot of faith that the club will find the right guy, unfortunately, given the way they have handled the last few years.

Fingers massively crossed.

Brad Scott is quite interesting talking about trends in the game, changing tactics etc.

If his brother came to us with the same tactical nous I think we'd have a more sophisticated game plan/s than what's been on display for the last 3 or 4 years.

 

[sog35]

Brad Scott is quite interesting talking about trends in the game, changing tactics etc.

If his brother came to us with the same tactical nous I think we'd have a more sophisticated game plan/s than what's been on display for the last 3 or 4 years.

Scott by nose.

 

[Power freak 2008]

Having a fresh game plan is one thing. Putting the pieces together and getting it to work on the field is another. Our club got stale in the William's era.

1. For one Mark said, "the good teams hold on to the ball and punish turnovers while the teams at the bottom play on at any cost". I got frustrated with this because we are not a good team so we didn't need to emulate the better teams but build towards bing one of them. The comment they made about Hardwick is that in the time of winning and losing the style never changed wich allows the players to adapt.

2. Mark told Broadbent that he was not in the top 20 in the club. Not exactly the best way to motivate the up and coming kids. I know for a fact that it is policy at the Cows to prepare every player to play at the highest level. It is not up to them to necessarily earn it like it is some kind of exclusive fellowship. that type of attitude was what was creating divisions.

3. Mark was a very big mentor to the players, not just in footy but in life. He advised on family life as well as how to play the game. Did this bring too much of a family feel to the club. Mark's strenghts became his weaknesses as the years progressed.

4. He really shouldn't be endorsing Primus because this hurts Matty's chances at gettng the gig but sure enough, he put in his two cents.

5. If we hire from within how are we going to get help from outside. Our future is not bad at all. A move to the city and a better deal will correct our situation. There are still a lot of positives to be a senior coach of this club. I had a talk with one of my clients who seems to get a lot of informatin about the state of footy.

He said that the development could see us as one of the best venues in the country considering the distance of the casino, hotels and the almost mystical reputation of Adelaide Oval. Don't underestimate what being under cover, higher tiered seats and a better location will do for our crowds.

This makes coaching this club a huge commitment but with an upside that a lot of Melbourne based clubs don't have considering the crowded market there. Hiring from within makes us look insular and makes it difficult to get the right assistant coaches. The quality of our day to day preparations depends on it.

6. Another case in point is that Laidley put it in place that the players started coaching themselves. He split the groups up into midfield, defense etc., gave them instructions and let them work it out. wHY THE !@#$%^ weren't we doing that before. Could it be that Mark had his hands to tight on the reigns to let go?

The mail is saying that Scott is a good coach. I not sure how Primus would go without Laidely. Brett Montgomery said that a coach does not have to be that good, as long as his assistants can help. He endorsed Matty but I think that was when Dean was in the club..


Having weighed everything up I lean towards Scotty because the environment that Matty grew up i was not condusive for learning. He is just not ready IMO.

 

[Gray Day]

It has to be Primus now.

It helps that he appears to have the universal respect of his players (at least publicly).

 

[King_Tredrea]

this is a ridiculously tough decision. i'm all for either as long as they are picked because they are the best man for the job

 

[FishingRick04]

It has to be Primus now.

It helps that he appears to have the universal respect of his players (at least publicly).

So did Choco and we remember how they played for him the last 3 seasons

 

[Minotaur]

Very interesting that the overwhelming majority of teh footy tragics on here support Scott.

I think support in the broader port adelaide supporting community would be inversed.

It would still come as a major shock if Scott got the job.

 

[Portology]

Having a fresh game plan is one thing. Putting the pieces together and getting it to work on the field is another. Our club got stale in the William's era.

Mark Williams got stale in the Mark Williams era.

1. For one Mark said, "the good teams hold on to the ball and punish turnovers while the teams at the bottom play on at any cost". I got frustrated with this because we are not a good team so we didn't need to emulate the better teams but build towards bing one of them. The comment they made about Hardwick is that in the time of winning and losing the style never changed wich allows the players to adapt.

Mark wasn't above b*llsh*tting either, to hide that he often stubbornly followed last year's trend once it became embedded in his head. In fact WC first and then Geelong played on at all cost, yes first they got the cattle but also attacking was a natural cyclical response to previous years of slow or dour relatively defensive strategies. We don't need to go over all his phases again to track his inspirations from previous years.

What has this got to do with either candidate apart from a great learning experience for Matty even though he couldn't influence the behavior ?

2. Mark told Broadbent that he was not in the top 20 in the club. Not exactly the best way to motivate the up and coming kids. I know for a fact that it is policy at the Cows to prepare every player to play at the highest level. It is not up to them to necessarily earn it like it is some kind of exclusive fellowship. that type of attitude was what was creating divisions.

3. Mark was a very big mentor to the players, not just in footy but in life. He advised on family life as well as how to play the game. Did this bring too much of a family feel to the club. Mark's strenghts became his weaknesses as the years progressed.

Obviously Broady is no Tredders, but just as Tredders didn't get the way Jack was trying to 'motivate' him, similarly Broady didn't get the way Choco was trying to motivating him. More than just irony there. Justin Westhoff OTOH has woken up since Matty came on board. Evidence or co-incidence ?

4. He really shouldn't be endorsing Primus because this hurts Matty's chances at gettng the gig but sure enough, he put in his two cents.

Agreed. It's a bit of a poisoned toast from Choco !

5. If we hire from within how are we going to get help from outside. Our future is not bad at all. A move to the city and a better deal will correct our situation. There are still a lot of positives to be a senior coach of this club. I had a talk with one of my clients who seems to get a lot of informatin about the state of footy.

He said that the development could see us as one of the best venues in the country considering the distance of the casino, hotels and the almost mystical reputation of Adelaide Oval. Don't underestimate what being under cover, higher tiered seats and a better location will do for our crowds.

This makes coaching this club a huge commitment but with an upside that a lot of Melbourne based clubs don't have considering the crowded market there. Hiring from within makes us look insular and makes it difficult to get the right assistant coaches. The quality of our day to day preparations depends on it.

A mixed bag. Both guys would be good salesmen for the Club, Matty has his head in front on that count IMO. Matty may well come cheaper than Scott so who knows how that impacts hiring the right ACs? IMO ACs will go to where they can get experience, or score points from being seen building success. Scott is exactly the latter case. What we do after the choice with Kingers and any other vacant spots will be about fit and budget more than "insularity". So never mind 'attracting' ACs, worry about keeping a senior coach here in the first place (see later).

6. Another case in point is that Laidley put it in place that the players started coaching themselves. He split the groups up into midfield, defense etc., gave them instructions and let them work it out. wHY THE !@#$%^ weren't we doing that before. Could it be that Mark had his hands to tight on the reigns to let go?

The mail is saying that Scott is a good coach. I not sure how Primus would go without Laidely. Brett Montgomery said that a coach does not have to be that good, as long as his assistants can help. He endorsed Matty but I think that was when Dean was in the club..

Having weighed everything up I lean towards Scotty because the environment that Matty grew up i was not condusive for learning. He is just not ready IMO.

How would Scott go without Harvey then ? Both Matty and Scott are unproven as senior coaches. Say both are equal and go ok, and we play finals, but maybe due to financials and playing list we don't get to look like a real challenger (eg hit a Bullies type wall) It is far less likely that Matty will tempted to p*** off to Victoria in a few years time on the back of having 'improved' things here. What is that loyalty worth in the balance ? To our 'insular' fans in three years time (just before we get to AO) ?

Agreed Dean would have been a great source of tactical insurance/wisdom for either Matty or Scott.

How much credit do you give Matty for biding his time here and putting up with the irrationality of Choco's decline rather than p*ssing off to Geelong or somewhere for an 'easier path' to a better looking CV for a senior job ?

A toxic irrational environment can still provide priceless learning experience.

"What I learned from failure?" would be a very interesting open question for both candidates. On that count, oddly, Matty has seen more experience than Scott.

I'm personally leaning to Primus on this but not to denigrate Scott in any way shape or form. I just think there is some myth-making going on around insider/outsider drawbacks/benefits, on the notion that an AC from elsewhere is more 'proven' than one from here, and that an AC from a 'strained' environment hasn't learned as much as one from a successful environment. May as well throw megabucks at Bomber Thompson if you're effectively just going to count only the positive stats that support your case.

All power to our almighty uninfluenced Process !!

 

[b0ydman]

this is a seriously good thread. a couple of the last posts here really are good posts. well done

for mine you give it to the devil you know, so primus gets the job

i think it will be a matter of Primus explaining that_he_wasn't responsible for the mess that is our mids and rucks then he gets the job. his baggage there is that HE built it, as much as choco instructed it

then we have scott who comes in and will no doubt say "okay board, this is why we beat you, this is what we all knew about you, this is your deficiencies with players A, B, C etc are, this is how i'll fix that"

If scott impresses there he gets the job, if Primus can't demonstrate why we failed so miserably over the past 3 seasons. perhaps we are being unfair and Primus did all he could to save the ship from sinking even further

my observatino from the nonplussed look in the St Kilda and Bulldogs game, and the Richmond comeback are that he doesnt have it in him

apart from dropping a fat Motlop and an injured Chad we saw very little that was earthshatteringly new

Primus would have known that the decision would come down more to what he says he knows, as against whether a team that had lost 9 straight lost another 5 of them. So for mine he missed his wondow to show significant changes.

having said that we dont know what he was saying to the board and MSC along the way.

so thats mine

If he can state with authority why we failed, why we get ahead and roll over, what tactical and player changes we need, and appear confident in this, then he deserves the job. i dont know if he has that in him though.

Make no mistake, Scott is an opposition coach and opposition clubs have all had us pencilled in for the 4 points for a reason. I have no doubt he will be in there spruiking exactly those things the board wants to hear.

at the very least listening to these coaches pitch the board would have developed a better picture of our strengths and deficiencies, which alone is something.

 

[TORRES_9]

I am happy that it has come down to these 2 candidates.

Would not be upset with either, but have a slight preference for Chris Scott.

I think the playing group need a shake up, as there are far too many players that are confident they have a spot in our side for many years to come.

Having said this, I dont want an 'outside' person for the sake of it. I would much prefer Matty over Alan Richardson, but I think Chris Scott would be an excellent coach and would bring a lot of Port Adelaide values back to the club.

Wouldnt mind seeing Ladey and Dewey in the coaching box with him. These 2 are Port Adelaide people, but are also intelligent football people which makes them perfect for us.

 

[Steve Dore]

.... Justin Westhoff OTOH has woken up since Matty came on board. Evidence or co-incidence ? .....

I have been told that Choco had completely destroyed Westhoff's confidence while it appears Primus has restored his confidence. Westhoff under Choco post-2007 and Westhoff under Primus are certainly chalk and cheese.

..... then we have scott who comes in and will no doubt say "okay board, this is why we beat you, this is what we all knew about you, this is your deficiencies with players A, B, C etc are, this is how i'll fix that" .......

I don't doubt that that is how Scott's presentation to the board may well be structured but in his time at Freo we have a positive win loss ratio against them 4-3. As far as player deficiencies that would (should) be part of Primus' presenetaion also and it will be upd to the committee and teh board to way up who's incite is best and who's plan to rectify it is most realistic.

 

[DSL64]

The mail is saying that Scott is a good coach.

How would the mail know... He's NEVER bloody coached!!!

He's a midfield coach for the worst club in the AFL. A club that has - historically - had the talent but always failed to deliver.

He's been there since 2007, so if you set this year aside his record is not that impressive...

Primus has been in the role for 7 weeks and won 5 games. IMHO, the five wins aren't even that important - it was the way we played in those 7 weeks.

We went longer to a contest. We took more contested marks in our forward 50 in those 7 weeks, and had more contested footy...

HELLO!!!!

Isn't that what we've been screaming for all year?

You can't completely change a game plan overnight - you can only tweak it, and Matty tweaked if enough to show me he can coach and deserves the gig...

 

[Natman]

I don't know what the big deal is ... it's only the most important decision in our AFL history.

It's good to read differing opinions etc, but what is more important is that nearly all posters agree that whatever decision is made, that they will support it.

The board are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

 

[CatchTim]

How would the mail know... He's NEVER bloody coached!!!

He's a midfield coach for the worst club in the AFL. A club that has - historically - had the talent but always failed to deliver.

He's been there since 2007, so if you set this year aside his record is not that impressive...

Primus has been in the role for 7 weeks and won 5 games. IMHO, the five wins aren't even that important - it was the way we played in those 7 weeks.

We went longer to a contest. We took more contested marks in our forward 50 in those 7 weeks, and had more contested footy...

HELLO!!!!

Isn't that what we've been screaming for all year?

You can't completely change a game plan overnight - you can only tweak it, and Matty tweaked if enough to show me he can coach and deserves the gig...

If the 'mail' is correct, we will be able to judge Scott's ability at the Cattery next year and whether the correct decisions (here and there) were made !

 

[Forzaport]

Keep in mind Geelong's list and Port's list are at different stages of the premiership cycle.

I said earlier in this thread that whoever misses out on the Port job may be coaching Essendon next year, that was before the golden child returned to the club. I really do rate Scott, and if the rumors are true, I think Geelong have made an excellent decision, given how easy it would've been to hand the job to Hinkley or Sanderson.

 

[Peck]

I doubt us finishing above Geelong would prove much. We will only really know which coach is better in 4-5 years at the least IMO.

I heard somewhere (Gerald Healy or something) that we thought Scott wasn't ready to coach yet. If this is true, I find it strange that Geelong have gone with him.

 

[FishingRick04]

It's crazy to compare the two.

Only their respective records once finished will allow for comparisons, but I do think geelong is a poisons ladel to drink from, after what they have been through, who has left and the experience that remains.

There will be alot of players comparing the two coaches, and thinking they know it all, I almost would have taken it if I was him, but then for an AFL coach nearly any job is a good one.

 

[Steve Dore]

If the 'mail' is correct, we will be able to judge Scott's ability at the Cattery next year and whether the correct decisions (here and there) were made !

How are you going to judge that?

Geelong have a developed list and have won two of the last four GF's and finished top 2 in the home and away for the last four years. Port have a developing list and have missed the finals for the last three years. Isolating the effect of the senior coach in either team's performance next season will be a difficult task.

..... I heard somewhere (Gerald Healy or something) that we thought Scott wasn't ready to coach yet.....

Unless that came from someone on the coach selection panel or the board at Port then that was most likely just a made up statement.

It was always going to be difficult for any of the other candidates to beat Primus for the job. They would have to have been able to demonstrate that they were clearly better than Primus, not just as good as or potentially as good as. Very hard for an assistant coach with no obvious track record to show.

 

[Power freak 2008]

What I was impressed with about Freo was the way they made space for a person to Mark the ball in a congested zone. Real teamwork. They are obviously coached a lot better than they used to be. How much is attributed to Scott, I dont know?

 

[CatchTim]

How are you going to judge that?

I'll reserve my judgement until this time next year. There should be some indication about the relative merits and ability of the respective coaches by then.