QAFL 2023 Season

[Still Me]

Not entirely sure why kids that don't make academy, and im talking sunny coast, are leaving to try their hand in stronger competitions. Their is a reason generally he/she didn't make it and that's because a part, or more, of their game, isn't up to the next level. The Sunny Coast level 3 academy and I presume the other region's have dramatically reduced their initial intake, (14 i think) a much better option imo from the past of around 40-45 eliminating, dare I say it, the dead wood immediately allowing for better quality training. If you can't make your regions top 14, I think it would be in your best interest to 1. ask why, get some feedback and 2. get back to your QAFL club and go to work., then see how it works out for you,. I get the impression their is some real quality coaching in the qafl ranks to help players im this situation. The notion of heading to Victoria or wherever on the basis you couldn't make it here just doesn't make sense to me.

I think the comment was more around players leaving after they finish Academy duties by being aged out and limited opportunities at Southport, Lions and Suns to play VFL or at least try to play that level.

That’s how I read the comment but I could be wrong.

 

[switchingplay]

I think the comment was more around players leaving after they finish Academy duties by being aged out and limited opportunities at Southport, Lions and Suns to play VFL or at least try to play that level.

That’s how I read the comment but I could be

If that's the case, then no problems with that. But I know the particular lad Noosaboy is talking about just didn't make the cut. At the end of the day, it's up to the individual, and not being in the pathway, while looked upon very favourably, isn't a death sentence to progressing, I think it was Glenn Archers son who didn't make any junior programs, but I'm sure the surname helped a little to keep him in the back of someone's mind! Interesting listening to Stuart Clark the other day on ABC radio talking about NSW cricket saying your chewed up and spat out by 20/21 now and that you must be in the pathway program to be picked. Used an example of an offspinner in grade cricket that was killing it, taking 30+ wickets to date, but was overlooked for a 19 year old, who'd played 3 1st grade games only, but was in the pathway, his view was that it was just so wrong.

 

[LaggingBehind]

If that's the case, then no problems with that. But I know the particular lad Noosaboy is talking about just didn't make the cut. At the end of the day, it's up to the individual, and not being in the pathway, while looked upon very favourably, isn't a death sentence to progressing, I think it was Glenn Archers son who didn't make any junior programs, but I'm sure the surname helped a little to keep him in the back of someone's mind! Interesting listening to Stuart Clark the other day on ABC radio talking about NSW cricket saying your chewed up and spat out by 20/21 now and that you must be in the pathway program to be picked. Used an example of an offspinner in grade cricket that was killing it, taking 30+ wickets to date, but was overlooked for a 19 year old, who'd played 3 1st grade games only, but was in the pathway, his view was that it was just so wrong.

Stuart Clark was the classic non-pathway player. Just a few years before playing for Australia he was playing 5th grade in Sydney district cricket. Just worked his way through the grades.

Pathways capture the majority but some others work out their own game, understand their bodies and get their minds right later that 18. Which in fairness is most young men.

 

[BigTex27]

I just can’t see what all the fuss is about with no qfa colts. Many clubs were combinations of various clubs so not a side coming thru from junior ranks. The 6 kids leaving Kedron to play qafl colts (assuming good enough to play at that level) might be better served playing qfa. Horses for courses I suppose.
Btw FF know quite a few young kids who played 17.5 comp in 2022 pretty keen to play Friday nights with either nth shore or Caloundra. It’s not a terrible option for a young kid not aspiring and not wanting their whole Saturday taken up.

Haven’t heard of any 17.5’s going to Nth Shore but they have picked up a number of ex Noosa & Hinterland players!

 

[noosaboy]

Haven’t heard of any 17.5’s going to Nth Shore but they have picked up a number of ex Noosa & Hinterland players!

I didn’t think 17.5 boys began until 2023.
Pretty sure it was even numbers plus .5 this year so a fair jump to Senior footy I would have thought even if only Friday night footy! A few of Noosas’ more experienced players not committed to the training and playing demands of QAFL keen as on heading down to play at Nth Shore which is great!

 

[StillGotIt]

Any top liners from either going across, or mostly ex ressies?

Looks like it'll be a tough place to get a game in any case

 

[noosaboy]

Any top liners from either going across, or mostly ex ressies?

Looks like it'll be a tough place to get a game in any case

Not top liners now but we’re in their day especially Hutchy and Liam Kenny.Lachy Cameron apperently also heading down for a run very handy a few years back also!
The ‘thirds’ as they call it was very popular at Noosa a few years back however was detrimental to our further travelling reserves grade team as well. Blokes were choosing to play 3rds instead of ressies due to travel or weekend time slots.Club happy to push those that are missing out to nearby clubs who need them! Getting them to play there is the hardest thing

 

[smy1305]

Haven’t heard of any 17.5’s going to Nth Shore but they have picked up a number of ex Noosa & Hinterland players!

U might just have to wait a month or so

 

[smy1305]

Stuart Clark was the classic non-pathway player. Just a few years before playing for Australia he was playing 5th grade in Sydney district cricket. Just worked his way through the grades.

Pathways capture the majority but some others work out their own game, understand their bodies and get their minds right later that 18. Which in fairness is most young men.

Hence the common sense push by some imo for the draft age to be lifted to at least 19, maybe even 21.

 

[2010premier]

Hence the common sense push by some imo for the draft age to be lifted to at least 19, maybe even 21.

21 is too old in my opinion but the idea of 19 makes sense. A players draft year is usually also grade 12 which isn’t ideal.

Some are saying also that it should be 19 except for the first round so the Will ashcrofts of the world that are good to go don’t miss a year in AFL . That could work

 

[smy1305]

21 is too old in my opinion but the idea of 19 makes sense. A players draft year is usually also grade 12 which isn’t ideal.

Some are saying also that it should be 19 except for the first round so the Will ashcrofts of the world that are good to go don’t miss a year in AFL . That could work

Yes agree with all that 2010. Bottom line imo is trying to get a system that has a better strike rate than currently.

 

[Bigdog Searle]

any word on our state coach for rep game

 

[Miller1971]

I think perhaps there should be a maximum amount of 18 year olds that are allowed to be drafted, maybe 18 (one per club).

I think they used to do that with 17 year olds, there was a certain amount allowed to be taken but not many. I recall Ben Reid was drafted to Collingwood as a 17 year old in the first round and debuted when he was still 17.

Maybe the draft age could be 19, but a maximum of 1 x 18 year old per club can be selected.

 

[briztoon]

I think perhaps there should be a maximum amount of 18 year olds that are allowed to be drafted, maybe 18 (one per club).

I think they used to do that with 17 year olds, there was a certain amount allowed to be taken but not many. I recall Ben Reid was drafted to Collingwood as a 17 year old in the first round and debuted when he was still 17.

Maybe the draft age could be 19, but a maximum of 1 x 18 year old per club can be selected.

I’m against this idea, purely from an economic view and potential loss of talent pool.

Half the draftees are already finished school in their draft year, even the QLD kids with the school starting age moving in-line with the southern states.

From the Lions 2019 draft crop, every single kid had finished school the year before and had spent the year doing uni and working part time at Bunnings or the local Golf Club.

And still just playing WAFL colts or NAB League, and Coleman playing in our then NEAFL team.

Basically just killing time until they were drafted.

Those kids, born between January and June are going to spend 2 years out of school, being exposed to more than enough distractions to pull them away from footy.


In truly international sports like Basketball or Football (soccer), these kids can play in lower league competitions around the world, where they can still earn decent coin, or play in the NBL.

A lot of the Aussie kids in these sports are moving overseas at 15 or 16 to join team academies in the UK, Italy, Croatia etc, or heading to the USA and playing school basketball before going to college.

AFL is simply not a big enough sport to provide appropriate pathways and income for school leavers between Colts/NAB League and the AFL.

Those top 17/18 year olds in soccer can earn between $2k and $5k per week when they step up from their club academy to the senior team, even though they probably still play U21’s for another year or two.

Similarly the USA bound kids are receiving a free college education, board and meals worth $40k to $50k per year, plus a heap of other bonuses.


If we provided kids with a better pathway between school and a potential AFL career, I could get on board with the draft age being lifted, but until one is developed, I don’t see a valid argument for raising the AFL draft argument.

 

[smy1305]

Fair points Briztoon - but at the moment the strike rate after rd 1 picks is not really good. So clubs get their 1st pick (generally) right then it becomes a raffle thereafter. You could even put a case that some early draft picks are persisted with for longer than a lower pick simply because there is a desire to have gotten it right hence the data is skewed a bit.
You are right about the change in school ages meaning a kid will spend 2 years out of secondary school and at uni or work before being drafted but in some respects this could be seen as a good thing. Means they will already have at least half a degree under belt or even 2 years into an apprenticeship before they defer or just go part time (obviously won't continue apprenticeship) which means that if the game average of 30 continues they will be more or less able to transition back into "life". The #1 issue in AFL at the moment is the movement of a player back into normal life, something that is far more difficult to do if they have never been exposed to anything but school + an AFL life imo. Know what you mean about possibly some blokes drifting into bad habits in that period but if NAB was U19 footy this might alleviate this pull factor a bit more. It seemed to work okay when it actually was U19 football in the VFL / SANFL days .

I also wouldn't be saying the US system pulls that many kids out of Australia who are bona fide AFL players to their college system in basketball. These are often modified scholarships with parents subsidising a fair bit as well with the player receiving no match payments.

 

[briztoon]

Fair points Briztoon - but at the moment the strike rate after rd 1 picks is not really good. So clubs get their 1st pick (generally) right then it becomes a raffle thereafter. You could even put a case that some early draft picks are persisted with for longer than a lower pick simply because there is a desire to have gotten it right hence the data is skewed a bit.
You are right about the change in school ages meaning a kid will spend 2 years out of secondary school and at uni or work before being drafted but in some respects this could be seen as a good thing. Means they will already have at least half a degree under belt or even 2 years into an apprenticeship before they defer or just go part time (obviously won't continue apprenticeship) which means that if the game average of 30 continues they will be more or less able to transition back into "life". The #1 issue in AFL at the moment is the movement of a player back into normal life, something that is far more difficult to do if they have never been exposed to anything but school + an AFL life imo. Know what you mean about possibly some blokes drifting into bad habits in that period but if NAB was U19 footy this might alleviate this pull factor a bit more. It seemed to work okay when it actually was U19 football in the VFL / SANFL days .

I also wouldn't be saying the US system pulls that many kids out of Australia who are bona fide AFL players to their college system in basketball. These are often modified scholarships with parents subsidising a fair bit as well with the player receiving no match payments.

I wasn’t suggesting US college kids receive an income. But as far as I’m aware, NCAA scholarships are full rides. Tuition, board, food all covered by whichever school you go to.

My main point was, in many global sports, kids can still earn at least a decent income straight out of school.

In the USA, if a kid wants to skip college, they can play in the G League for a year, on a minimum salary of US$40,500, before declaring for the NBA after one year.

Same with soccer. In the UK, the average income in the Championship (the second tier of English football) is £35,000 per week. As I mentioned previously, most 18 year olds, signing professional forms are starting on £2,000 to £5,000 per week.


Most kids in the NBA first round of the draft, are one and done college kids, who stop any pretence of uni in the second half of their first year.

Or they’re kids who went the G League route for a year.

Or they’re kids coming over from Europe or the NBL who have already played professionally and been payed their local league rates.

None of these kids are close to the finished product, and there’s still a pretty high failure rate in the EPL or NBA.

But those sports still have pathways where kids get paid from day one, and if they don’t make the top league, can still earn a very good income for a decade or more playing professionally.


What you’re asking is for these kids to spend a year or two, playing footy for free, or maybe they can make $5k or $10k playing SANFL, in a semi professional environment at best, so they can learn some life experiences.

Don’t know about you, but me at that age, my life experiences amounted to Uni, working part time, and trying to get in to as many panties as possible, and my priorities were definitely not in that order.


I know the Lions head recruiter has been asked about the draft age on Twomey’s RTTD podcast, and he said the best place for a kid who’s good enough at that age, or one who shows potential, is in the AFL system where they are in a full time environment.

Sure, a kid might not make it, but not all mature age players make it either.

 

[Still Me]

any word on our state coach for rep game

Danny Cravern has whacked away being the representative coach at Community Level for number of years and probably deserves a chance at State side if he has applied.

I hope it’s not a current coach in QAFL system as that has conflict in my opinion. Also hope it’s not just filled up with ex Victorian players and ex AFL players as that would also not be in best interest of a true QAFL representative team.

 

[Miller1971]

So you don't want your new 4 figure recruit Mitch Robinson getting picked?

 

[smy1305]

Danny Cravern has whacked away being the representative coach at Community Level for number of years and probably deserves a chance at State side if he has applied.

I hope it’s not a current coach in QAFL system as that has conflict in my opinion. Also hope it’s not just filled up with ex Victorian players and ex AFL players as that would also not be in best interest of a true QAFL representative team.

Can't be a current day QAFL coach - makes completely no sense. Someone like a John Blair although it would be good for Danny to get a look in as well. Has done a great job with the South group over the years. No doubt plenty of good candidates around who are not aligned with a club currently who could get out to a variety of matches and watch first hand. Fantastic that the concept is going ahead imo.

 

[Bud63]

Andrew Cadzow would be terrific in that role

 

[smy1305]

I wasn’t suggesting US college kids receive an income. But as far as I’m aware, NCAA scholarships are full rides. Tuition, board, food all covered by whichever school you go to.

My main point was, in many global sports, kids can still earn at least a decent income straight out of school.

In the USA, if a kid wants to skip college, they can play in the G League for a year, on a minimum salary of US$40,500, before declaring for the NBA after one year.

Same with soccer. In the UK, the average income in the Championship (the second tier of English football) is £35,000 per week. As I mentioned previously, most 18 year olds, signing professional forms are starting on £2,000 to £5,000 per week.


Most kids in the NBA first round of the draft, are one and done college kids, who stop any pretence of uni in the second half of their first year.

Or they’re kids who went the G League route for a year.

Or they’re kids coming over from Europe or the NBL who have already played professionally and been payed their local league rates.

None of these kids are close to the finished product, and there’s still a pretty high failure rate in the EPL or NBA.

But those sports still have pathways where kids get paid from day one, and if they don’t make the top league, can still earn a very good income for a decade or more playing professionally.


What you’re asking is for these kids to spend a year or two, playing footy for free, or maybe they can make $5k or $10k playing SANFL, in a semi professional environment at best, so they can learn some life experiences.

Don’t know about you, but me at that age, my life experiences amounted to Uni, working part time, and trying to get in to as many panties as possible, and my priorities were definitely not in that order.


I know the Lions head recruiter has been asked about the draft age on Twomey’s RTTD podcast, and he said the best place for a kid who’s good enough at that age, or one who shows potential, is in the AFL system where they are in a full time environment.

Sure, a kid might not make it, but not all mature age players make it either.

None will play for free imo - all will be on some sort of decent earner if they are of a draftable standard, especially in Victoria / SA.

I accept that AFL clubs feel best place is inside their 4 walls and the major difference bn "now and then" when U19 football was a thing is that those U19 sides were directly aligned with an VFL club so clubs did have good control over the development of a boy coming through their system. Now that NAB coaches are all on $100k+ I think there is a greater level of accountability on what they push out in any case. It often seems to me that there is a lack of belief from AFL clubs about what happens outside of their cocoon in the code ie all best practises occur inside our 4 walls which is naive in the extreme.

I agree not all mature age players make it - but anecdotally the numbers don't seem that far removed from a rd 3 or 4 draft pick. And often these numbers are lower simply bc many mature age players who are possibly better will refuse the opportunity based purely on what they have to give up financially. I suppose my opinion is based around a lot of what Paul Roos used to say about the draft and in comments made by a guy who has been a very good recruiter over the years, Simon Dalrymple (Bulldogs now Swans). Young kids, immature minds, being thrust into professional sport in many cases before they are even close to being ready for it. American sports don't do it, soccer I will accept do but their numbers are so high they can just churn through. Like you said, our sport is a small one by comparison, we need to get our best players playing our game where we can and although there are a heap of variables to this I sometimes think the current system doesn't allow for that (especially around recruitment of 20-23 yr olds).

 

[smy1305]

Andrew Cadzow would be terrific in that role

Agree

 

[noosaboy]

Andrew Cadzow would be terrific in that role

Gee don’t you blokes stick together
Brett Maloney be great also! Has done it before with much success! And he’s ex Maroochydore

 

[Miller1971]

we need to get our best players playing our game where we can and although there are a heap of variables to this I sometimes think the current system doesn't allow for that

Exactly

The obsessive focus of assessing 95% of the talent at a single point in time (their 18th year) means that the best players don't always end up playing the highest level.

 

[Still Me]

So you don't want your new 4 figure recruit Mitch Robinson getting picked?

Why is he my recruit and not even sure where Mitch is playing? Apparently he is making an announcement tonight at 6pm on his social media which I seen.